AMT Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I've posted a few hot hatch things before but can't help myself... with the rise of these super hatches doing sub 5 second 60 times and 'normal' supercars doing around 3-3.5, is there even a place for sports cars now... or even big GT's? http://www.autoblog....60-36605-price/ I know people will still want an F-Type over a Focus, etc but cars are gonna run out of ideas not too far away from now at this rate. Edited September 16, 2015 by AMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I've been thinking about this. It might bury the modifying scene with regards to performance as hot hatches head towards 450 and 500bhp. Why modify your car to be as powerful as entry level hot hatches. Where do you go? How much will it cost to modify the performance beyond that point? "Haha my 350 has 450bhp" Mum in hatch "umm mine has more" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 It is crazy what these superhatchs are capable of nowadays ...... But for me coupes / GT cars although may well be slower they just look so much better . I would prefer my old 350 to any of the hot breed of hatches to be honest .... Even if it is slower ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Too much power, not enough involvement. F-Type is a good example, the V6S is the one I'd have over the R. The manufacturers can have their will waving contest if they want, I'll always pick the one that drives the best, not the one with the smallest 0-60. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodyboarder81 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 ^ and your a cheap skate so would save some money ....'much like not buying the m6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 As others have said, I think there's much more to it than outright performance. Hot hatches have been capable of embarassing more exotic machinery for a long time now. I personally chose the z because I wanted a good looking coupe with a characterful engine and a solid RWD chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Nice to hear some of the views. I too think its more about the driving involvement but... also...how it makes you feel. Sitting low with something that has small windows, a cascading like dash and a nice sound makes you feel special... sitting in a focus or a civic that's high and full of bumpers...makes me feel silly to an extent. Although on hold now I was preparing to replace the Z with a 4.2 XKR (2008) and its old...and hatches are faster (to 60 at least anyway) but I have had the fortune to drive one. And yes there are better things, better gearboxes but for an average joe even from a Z...it makes you feel brilliant, what a car...and that's whats missing from hot hatches...you get a bit of excitement but eventually you'll turn round to your dash and realise, its just a Golf... Edited September 16, 2015 by AMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonlap Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 And of course the insurance issue raises it's ugly head, standard very fast car versus heavily modded not so fast car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I've had plenty of admiration from the public at large since owning my Z. Driving through Deansgate and the northern quarter on a warm Friday night etc with the windows down and people making remarks of approval. You won't get that with a RS, ST, Type R. They just don't have the road presence or aesthetic appeal the Z has. And that V6 burble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMT Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Now although my topic was to do with any hatches in general ... does anyone else think this sounds like a broken hoover?? Its terrible imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Now although my topic was to do with any hatches in general ... does anyone else think this sounds like a broken hoover?? Its terrible imo Agreed. Sounds poop to my ears. I saw an MR2, well heard it then saw it on the motorway today and it just sounded naff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) We're back to the old what makes a "good" car issue. If 0-60 times define a "good" car then the Focus is a better car than many, including some of the latest Porsches. But it's about soooo much more than that. I won't be trading in the Z for one of these, regardless of whether it can get away from the traffic lights a few tenths of a second quicker. Edited September 17, 2015 by sipar69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This was the op of the hot hatch when they first hit our streets, Golfs, Pugs, Gt Turbos etc, they were there to wave a finger at more exotic machinery and not sure anything has changed Folk dont necessarily modify just to make them faster, but to make them individual, we pour loads of money into our zeds just for aesthetics, your never really going to make one any faster unless you go fi. How often does anyone go from 0-60 anyway, its just for pub bragging rights. We all know the 350 can be embarrassed by hot hatches, as has been discussed many times and if that bothers you, your driving the wrong car 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 My brother is giving serious thought to one of these, over the BMW 228/235. Tbh I think I'd also rather have the FRS over the BMW, if I wanted the practicality side of things as much as anything else. It's just a huge shame they toned the styling down so much, the mk2 FRS was absolutely perfect in that regard. Going back to the subject at hand, unfortunately it looks like we're still not able to escape the power contest yet. Every time a new car comes out it has more power than the last one, and on the odd occasion it doesn't it gets slated (FN2 CTR, I'm looking at you). It may look great on paper, and every one likes a bit more power, but it's genuinely getting to the point where usable power levels are getting harder and harder to find. We've a 400bhp Golf coming, FFS! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 What seems to be getting forgotten is that manufacturers have to continuously add power, firstly it captures headlines (great for advertising), but they are constantly increasing the size and more importantly the weight of cars. Having had a 350z at the same time as my 240z was on the road, missus and I both felt that straight-line performance was very similar. 1972 VS 2002.... and a lot of that comes down to the weight of modern cars. See video.... I am hoping that this car helps kick Subarus (not really hot hatch) butt, because they have been casually sitting back and doing nothing RE car design over the last few years, such a shame! GTR is a big GT (and bloody heavy), I still have a place for it in my garage Was following the missus in the MX5 the other day and had a new(ish) Jaaaagggg drive past and the MX5 is tiny in comparison! The roof barely made it to the base of the door glass on the Jaaaagggg. Its similar comparing the MX5 to the 997 911, having one at the station where I park and it was next to us one day. Obviously this is race cars or track prepared cars, but still:- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ^^ I could never understand how the 350Z weighed so much in the first place. Even things like the new XE, for all the talk of using aluminium it still weighs pretty much the same as any D segment car. But for extra power with FI, surely there is more to come. F1 cars were pushing 800bhp in race trim from a 1.5L blown unit 30 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The problem as Toyota/Subaru have probably found out with the 86 is, however much call there was for a lightweight sports car, the motoring masses want power and comfort with all the trimmings, electric leather etc not lightweight and fine handling, i dont believe is was the sales success they hoped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 But for extra power with FI, surely there is more to come. F1 cars were pushing 800bhp in race trim from a 1.5L blown unit 30 years ago. If PCars is vaguely realistic, you wouldn't want to be driving one of those with lag like that, plus I think people generally want their engines to last more than an hour I know what you're getting at though, and the efficiency is definitely coming up massively these days. Sadly with everything going turbo I feel we're losing as much as we're gaining, as drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ^^ I could never understand how the 350Z weighed so much in the first place. Even things like the new XE, for all the talk of using aluminium it still weighs pretty much the same as any D segment car. But for extra power with FI, surely there is more to come. F1 cars were pushing 800bhp in race trim from a 1.5L blown unit 30 years ago. I couldnt either........ The 2l V8 looked good The problem as Toyota/Subaru have probably found out with the 86 is, however much call there was for a lightweight sports car, the motoring masses want power and comfort with all the trimmings, electric leather etc not lightweight and fine handling, i dont believe is was the sales success they hoped. Very true... doubt it was even close to the success that they expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 It doesn't really bother me, for me a sports car is something that looks nice and is there to be taken out at weekends for a quick blast and a bit of enjoyment. I do find that people who have to brag about their car being quicker than...blah blah blah are usually compensating for something else. Imho 'hot' (usually when they are burning a council estate) hatches need to be fast so that there is less chance of anyone you know seeing you driving it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The problem as Toyota/Subaru have probably found out with the 86 is, however much call there was for a lightweight sports car, the motoring masses want power and comfort with all the trimmings, electric leather etc not lightweight and fine handling, i dont believe is was the sales success they hoped. Indeed, and it's a huge shame because having driven my z and my mum's 86 back to back, you can really feel how the weight savings benefit the ride and handling in the 86. I still think the z is a great car to drive though, but that's not because of the performance figures per se... the z is more of a muscle car in how it drives, the 86 more a pure sports car. Both great in their own ways 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 ^^ I could never understand how the 350Z weighed so much in the first place. Even things like the new XE, for all the talk of using aluminium it still weighs pretty much the same as any D segment car. But for extra power with FI, surely there is more to come. F1 cars were pushing 800bhp in race trim from a 1.5L blown unit 30 years ago. Crazy eh. And 1500hp for qualifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Indeed, and it's a huge shame because having driven my z and my mum's 86 back to back, you can really feel how the weight savings benefit the ride and handling in the 86. I still think the z is a great car to drive though, but that's not because of the performance figures per se... the z is more of a muscle car in how it drives, the 86 more a pure sports car. Both great in their own ways For the road, all the BRZ86 needs is slightly stickier tyres and maybe another 30ft/lb in the mid-range. Power is fine, styling is fine, power delivery is fine, just wants some more shove in the middle. Of course, a performance version with an SC would be a nice option, but the car doesn't need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyZ Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I did get a bit tired of having to rev the nuts off it all the time Edited September 17, 2015 by BobbyZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Isnt that the issue with it, its a back road scratcher, shouldnt that be reserved for the track and to make it something decent for the road, it needs more oomph for overtakes etc? And then it becomes not what it was designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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