rtbiscuit

not technically true, its more like jumping out of an aircraft with a parachute, but A. you don't know who packed it, B. you don't know how big it is. C. you don't know if it works. D you don't know when to open it. but there are the means and requirements for a safe landing, but you just don't know until you pull the chord how its going to end. We know what trade looks like and how it works, we have examples of possible options and we know what the worst case scenario looks like as remain have been plugging Armageddon for weeks. yes all the fiscal studies economic etc show what the short term damage/protection is like if we stay or go. but non have projected longer term. we all know there will be a hit, could be short could be longer. but the big gain/gamble is if or when the EU fails how much better will we be not shackled to it, and already worked loose from it. The EU is stuck in a setup that is designed for national/international trade but its not best setup for universal trade. out could mean better possibilities for trade with emerging markets. china is on the cool at the moment but india and Pakistan are fast emerging, south America is another growing market. being separate could allow us to react faster yes its a gamble, yes there are a lot of what if's but unless we take the ballsy leap of faith that we have the skills and facilities to carry it out, then we'll never know. Greece and southern Europe hang round the EU like a hang mans rope, they can keep pumping money in but will it fix the situation, they technically need to wipe out and clear a load of debt to allow Greece to kick start, but that puts large European banks at a massive financial lose. they are stuck in a loop of punitive measures and financial bailouts. Add into that several new countries joining all of which are not as financially big or evolved means more financial balancing. the EU works by wealth distribution in order to get all members on a roughly equal par. new membership mean more money has to be spent and less is sent out to the richer countries.

Not technically true, the owners classed it as unsinkable because they were that confident on its engineering but they put style over substance and style over safety. They removed bulkheads to allow for large grand open spaces and stairways, but when it flooded it allowed the water to move quicker as they couldn't keep it in sections. the lack of life boats was because the company thought they spoilt the view for the upper class so put less on. I think the EU are similiar in the fact they are so confident in their creation they don't see the glaring issues with it or are un willing to address them until its too late and its sinking and everyone on board will end going down with the ship. I can hear the European anthem playing now on the top deck

No great leaps of progress were ever made taking the safe option the bigger the risk often the bigger the reward. how would i know i like Vietnamese food if i hadn't taken a leap, the Manhattan project would never have got off the ground if people took the safe option, Columbus would never have found america, and Raleigh would never have brought us back the potato. nelson would never have beaten the french. people would still be walking if someone hadn't taken the risk of getting on a horse. trains would still be doing 15mph if someone hadn't taken the risk of going faster. to vote purely on the safe option because you're worried about the outcome is a shame, staying in europe is like buying tickets for the titanic after its hit the iceberg.

I think Corbyn would be the kind of person to get Proportional representation through if given the chance. open up the politcial chamber to a more balanced representation of the public opinion.

never thought he would be nor would i want him to be, but i would like more politicians to be like him. look at the kind of support he has roused at the grass roots level, he his ignited a passion for politics in a lot of young people where politics was becoming a dead point. so many politicians are far too slippery and polished, you're never sure what you hear is actually what they mean.

the cost of mobile linked trackers are becoming so cheap now you don't have to rely on ANPR

nope i would have said i was off centre but as the campaign has gone on i have moved further from the fence

The suprise for me is that one of the few politicians i actually have respect for is Corbyn, i respect his integrity the fact that he sticks by his beliefs and he when he talks he isn't a highly polished PR turd. he is himself. that said i don't agree with a lot of his policy ideas, i just hope a Corbyn style candidate comes to the forefront in the future that offers another alternative, even better would be if 2 or 3 more came out. and offer the public something worth voting for.

signed

I've switched off FB tonight and probably for the rest of the week, am sick of the bombardment of Referendum twaddle that people repost. the sooner Thursdays out the way, the sooner they can get on with bitching over why who ever lost of won wasn't fair and then we can all get on with life.

The one sided bollox that people are coming out with from both sides is boring the crap out of me. it shows how petty minded ,many are, bombarding a discussion thread with propaganda videos and literature from remain or leave doesn't sway vote, it just wastes space, i've taken to skipping posts now as they are filled with one sided BS. most have made their mind up early on and no amount of PR is going to make them switch either way. those on the fence probably know deep down already; you know when you make a choice but your disappointed you made it like choosing crumble over sticky toffee pudding. if you make a choice and you feel sad about it, then it probably means you need to pick the other one. I don't mind a discussion

I'm no fan of war but siting the cost of war as a wasted expenditure is a little difficult. you still have to pay your armed forces if they are at war or not. they still fire ammunition if they are at war or not, they still burn fuel and use resources. its an on going cost. i do how ever agree about sending them in to conflicts we should never have been involved in as its a waste of life on both sides.

Best thing i`ve read about it mate... classic don't forget its a party of over 20; its going to be like some kind of no lube gangbang horror porn

because then it becomes 5th gear and its dull as dishwater

in Suffolk near me some one has been busy with the remain placards. several bridges and sides of the road. and near my workplace a badly hand painted sign saying "F off Farage Vote remain" As for the right to remain in the country as an established EU citizen it will be no different than the right to remain for a well established Commonwealth citizen. having just helped my mum (Australian) sort her application for right to remain. even after she's been here for 40 years and served in Her Majesties Royal Navy. The issue for some to remain will be meeting the current changes that the current government has made to expected salary requirements after 3 years. I know this because a lot of Foreign teachers, not just EU, actually predominantly from the Common wealth won't be earning enough to be able to secure a permanent right of stay. from memory the benchmark salary is about £36,000 which a lot of teachers aren't on and those newly qualified aren't close to after 5 years. (might be 3 years). peoples ability to vote; or lack of vote in the referendum is no different to the lack of vote the English had on the Scottish referendum, or the lack of vote ex pats have outside of the UK.

I find this guys funny with his interpretation of events [media/]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGC5S3ag1q0[/media]

Personally I believe the EU is a doomed entity if we stay or leave, with several countries in very bad financial shape and Greece being a financial problem that they keep pumping cash into is just delaying the inevitable. it wouldn't take a lot to destabilise the community which would require large financial sacrifices to keep it floating. It needs to become a United states of Europe in order to control and stabilise the entry of new weaker economies while keeping others financial afloat. The primary beneficiaries are the original 5 who set it up with France and Germany at the top of the ladder. Watching the apparent free movement being blocked by countries no longer wishing to take any more migrants, borders being reinstated and no real financial plan on how to fix it. I believe (my own opinion) is that the EU will inevitably have to become more draconian and more dictatorial in order to force the states to go in the direction they want and to create a uniform system across all of the joined countries. I think long term the EU is not something we'll want to be a part of and that in the short term voting to stay is basically a vote of acceptance for what ever they deem suitable in the future. I'm under no illusion that financially and economically we'll take a big hit. but in the long term i think it will be less of a hit than what will come when it fails and we're in it.

i wish you lived closer

Well if it helps sway you, think of this: leaving is a one-way street, there is no coming back (not on anytime soon at least, and not on anywhere near the terms we enjoy now)... so choose to leave, and we cannot change our mind. Whereas choose to stay, and we have the luxury of changing our mind in the future if the EU fails to reform. see you basically hit on the head the only thing im taking from both sides, better the devil you know. "the immense central strength of the Remain case, which is ‘better the devil you know’. What a powerful piece of advice (I would say) is that! How eloquently it whispers to our fears. How subtly it inflames our insecurities. How cruelly it plays upon our lack of self-esteem. How many great enterprises have been thought better of, how many brave journeys have never been started, amid a swelling murmur of ‘better the devil you know’. Someone should have warned Christopher Columbus ‘Better the devil you know’. Instead some reckless fool ventured the thought that in order to discover a new continent you must be prepared to lose sight of the old one. How could Francis Drake feel so hopeful that he could circumnavigate the globe? If Captain Cook had stuck with the devil he knew, he could have enjoyed a prosperous career in the merchant navy. Someone should have advised that ambitious young politician Abraham Lincoln to stick with the southern devil he knew. Couldn’t Emmeline Pankhurst see that giving women the vote was a leap in the dark? ‘Better the devil you know’ was precisely the argument of the Tory wets against Margaret Thatcher’s plans to turn and face her country’s decline. Steam trains, flying, space travel, empire… every great leap in human history has been by definition into the unknown. And every one has been launched amid a susurration of whispers about the incontestable security of sticking with the devils we knew. Almost every hero we’ve ever had, almost every big, good thing we’ve ever achieved, has first had to brush away a swarm of reasonable doubts, and embrace the unknowable." Extract Taken from this article http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/how-leave-can-win-or-at-least-lose-with-honour/

Looks good mate, have been waiting all day to see the car, had my fingers crossed as well for an easy fix. glad it all came together and have a safe trip down to le mans.

anyone catch Osbourne debating with Andrew marr this evening at 7.30?

I think driving standards in general have dropped dramatically, lane discipline, leaving gaps, merging traffic, over taking safely; a lot of the basics are not what they used to be. a lot of drivers regardless of vehicle have become lazy and selfish. lots now drive and park like a c * * T the amount of people who use parent child parking spaces but have no kids because they're too fat and lazy to walk does my nut in, the people that park over 2 spaces is behaving like a whore.

i fast forwarded through the star in the car crap. the cheer voting thing was just cringeworthy. rest of it didn't mind, not made my mind up on Evans yet, am willing to give him time to settle into the role. EG missed having Harris though this week.

Ah the world of stereotypes and drivers All modified car drivers are chavs and idiots a cheap ass modded clio is the same as a high end ...350Z modded 350Zs have the engine out of a renault all BMW and Audi drivers are turds who don't indicate or get out of the fast lane. all old people should get off the road they're too slow why is it people in sports cars have to race everywhere I have a 4X4 i don't drive it because of its size..well actually i do; but not in the way you think. when putting twins into car seats on your own the added height makes it so much easier to put them in and take them out without rupturing my spinal cord. oh and the boot space is bigger, and easier to change a baby in the boot as its higher up. Having said that, in about 3 years time i will change and go to something lower, most likely a hot estate. once the kids can climb in and do their own belts up. My wife drives her 4x4 for her back she had a saloon car but getting in and out caused major issues with her twisted spin. I find the people who are road hogging tend to be large vans and lorries, generally cutting corners lazily. (my drive to work is all twisty back roads) i know drive the lanes part with my mirrors in to avoid having them spanked. I usually mount the verge to allow more space for those that are spatial unaware.