Stutopia

Come on. It's a reasonable discussion to have, not a "why don't you apply your brain?" shouting match. I did apply my brain, which is why I'm talking about the broader issue of the police's use of lethal force against the general public, rather than specifically the Duggan mess. "The end justifies the means" theme which keeps popping up is not a reasonable explanation of anyone's behaviour, particularly in something so serious. If you do a bit of reading on the Brazilian fella... "First off. The Brazilian on the tube. He was given several instructions from police to stop. I believe from what I've heard but can't be 100% sure jumped the barrier while running from police! still giving clear instructions and ran onto a train. The police involved were on a covert anti terrorist operation so had some reason to believe he was involved in something, enough to show out. He then ran on a train where if he was a terrorist, could have detonated an explosive device." Lee Ruston, an eyewitness who was waiting on the platform, said the police did not identify themselves. The Times reported "senior police sources" as saying that police policy would not require a warning to be given to a suspected suicide bomber before lethal action was taken....The Menezes family was briefed by the police that their son did not jump over the ticket barrier and may have used a Travelcard to pass through; this was subsequently confirmed by CCTV recordings shown at the Metropolitan Police trial. "Now I would rather the police shoot him several times and kill him than take the risk that he doesn't have anything for him to the detonate a device killing innocent people on the train." Would you honestly feel the same if it was one of your, proven to be totally innocent, family members who was shot to death by the very people who are supposed to protect them? I don't think I would be happy to write it off as easily. "The police did not shoot either of these men. It was a human being acting on behalf of the police and the country as a whole." Which is why we should all have been more concerned at the time, as it reflects the state of the country as a whole and the level of accountability when an innocent man is shot to death because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, not because of ANY crime, in the name of the people. "That human being doing a job that doesn't pay all that well considering things he will have to do. Especially when you take into account that the government are attacking his pension and pay structure while increasing there own." I think it's clear to all that pay rates and pensions have no bearing on the discussion around the appropriateness of the use of lethal force on members of the public. By inference, this means if Officer X was paid better, then the public would have the right to question the decision making process which led up to anyone's death at the hands of the police - but if Officer X is paid less, they don't have the right to question. Surely this makes no sense? Anyway, I wasn't trying to start an argument, just questioning the use of lethal force and the rigour of investigation into the actions which led up to it. I think the police do an excellent job by and large, under extremely trying circumstances most of the time, and I wouldn't want to swap places with any one of them, but that's not a reason not to question some of the things they do in service of the general public.

Yeah, America has totally solved gun crime and gang violence with their approach.

I don't get it, it's all hate, no love, there's got to be some love on a car site surely? Being a regular there must get you down after a while. Everything in the world is up for having the **** gently extracted IMHO, but just vitriol ALL OF the time? What would Freud say?

That brickyard is so hot I'm actually considering a re-spray.

Cool as.

Always looking for new stuff to try, especially from a pro. I'm in, PM sent.

Actually laughed out loud, after I did my first ever clay last year I couldn't stop stroking the glassy finish, especially the rear arch bit. OP car looks , well it will when the stub goes on! Nice job.

But didn't buy it? Wow. Really like this.

I want that shirt, but it doesn't work if you have white socks fully pulled up with shorts.

The y pipe on my exhaust was rattling against the w-brace and made a racket inline with what you're describing, might just be something as simple as them being quite close to each other and touching at certain temp/rev combos, defo worth a look when you get it up and easy/cheap to sort. Hope it's nothing serious.

This is very true and I appreciate where you're coming from, I was just trying to make a more general point (hence my mention of the Brazilian guy too) not defend this particular bloke. We all know that if you play with fire, you may well explode. I'd like to think you'd have to have a gun to be shot by the cops. As you say, he threw it away. If a soldier shot another soldier who threw down his weapon, that wouldn't be "acceptable" either. Anyway, I'm not defending the man, I just get the fear when we have armed police shooting someone unarmed and apparently no one has done anything incorrectly procedurally, I think it could be a slippery slope before we possibly drift too far.

Shame about that, you don't see many yellows. Good luck with New Zed!

Except the gun they found nearby had none of his DNA or fingerprints on it and an eye witness said he was shot, whilst holding a phone and surrendering to the police. However, I don't want to defend someone who was allegedly a career crim and all I know has come from the press/web, but sometimes I feel the circumstances are a bit off IMHO. You only have to recall the totally innocent Brazilian bloke (was it De Menezes?) who got shot repeatedly in the face for being guilty of running for a tube train and looking 'a bit swarthy' a few weeks after 7/7, oh and the CCTV that day from the tube station had a technical fault... No one was sent down for that either IIRC. They're not supposed to be Judge Judy & Executioner

Interesting what you're saying AMT, I could not agree more with the last bit about most people never having 300bhp. I get plenty of questions along the lines of, "Why have such a powerful lump/non-economical car? My Focus is really quick" etc etc. Coming from a variety of rental cars, some as big as 2.0 NA , getting in the Zed for the first time was like nothing on earth, a blend of excitement and terror at what the loud pedal can do. It wasn't just a new league, it was a different sport!

Na truck still got wheels... Please put down and step away from your copies of The Daily Mail

Latest Samsung phone

When I get in any car and start it, it becomes a hyper car Where does a Cayman fit in? Reason I ask is they keep winking at me when I'm driving past them... I think Dan's bandings are pretty fair, but the category Sports Saloon needs to be under Sports - too much compromise and they don't have a sports soul underneath.

Top order all out of form at the same time, usually there's a couple in good nick which can get some decent numbers but they were all just not at the races. Also the 3-0 win in the summer was slightly flattering IMHO. I don't think the Oz team is anything special.

Wow. That's brilliant. Perfect for a daily driver and to keep the Zed off the road in winter.

Noticed mine was snapped off during my MOT, hadn't noticed it when I was driving up to that point if I am honest, but it felt smoother after it was reconnected.

PM'd

Driving with no hands is one thing, but when's the safety camera coming that can detect if someone is driving with no brains

Good guide, Is it worth dropping in whilst you're doing this awesome almost free mod, that this is an excellent opportunity to lose the boot weight and give your boot pop half a chance of clearing?

Looks sweet grundy, works especially well with the wheels

Eat two packets of prawn cocktail crisps then two packets of scampi fries then be sure to breathe heavily towards anyone who approaches and mentions any one of: Soaps Little Timmy Reality TV Weather What happened over Winterval Anything in the Daily Mail Floods Wind The ongoing crisis in Syria Scratch the last one, no one talks about that when there's a dance based contest on TV.