Adrian@TORQEN Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The 878,300 who decided not to have an official assessment of whether they were fit for work was more than a third of the total number of people claiming sickness-related benefits The statistics also revealed that some claimants cited conditions such as “blistersâ€, “sprains and strains†and “acne†as preventing them from having a job. More than 46,120 people claimed incapacity benefit because of “behavioural disorders due to the use of alcohol†while 29,130 claimants cited drug use. Last night ministers said the figures showed the full extent of how millions had been “trapped on welfare†for decades. Grant Shapps, the Conservative Party chairman, said the old system was “evil†and accused Labour of using sickness benefits to “hide the unemployed†when the party was in power. The statistics emerged ahead of a raft of controversial changes to the benefits system which will come into force this week - including the “bedroom tax†which sees council and social housing tenants facing reductions to their benefits if they have empty rooms in their homes. Also coming in is an overall benefits “capâ€, which will prevent any household receiving more than £26,000 a year in total benefit payments - a figure set to reflect the average gross salary of a full-time worker. Labour say the average household will be £891 worse off in 2013-14 because of tax and benefits changes. Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, has faced criticism after scaling back a pilot scheme for his flagship universal credit - which will merge dozens of different out-of-work benefits into a single payment with the aim of ensuring an individual is always better off in work than on benefit. Instead of being tested in four job centres, the new system will only be piloted in one from this week amid claims the new scheme is in chaos. Mr Duncan Smith has admitted, as revealed by The Telegraph, that ministers have effectively given up trying to reduce the overall welfare bill and that the government is simply trying to “manage†the rise in payments. Speaking in Scotland he said in “reality†Britain was “not cutting welfare†unlike other European nations. Ministers will hit back in the row over welfare this week by publishing a raft of figures which they say show that tough measures - or the threat of them - are already “changing behaviour†by seeing people drop their claims. These include the figures on incapacity benefit. As well as the 878,300 who chose to drop their claims, another 837,000 who did take the a medical test were found to be fit to work immediately, while a further 367,300 were judged able to some level of work. Only 232,000 (one in eight of those tested) were classified by doctors to be too ill to do any sort of job. Some 30 people claimed they were unfit to work because of blisters, while 60 cited acne and 2,110 said “sprains and strains†rendered them unfit for employment. The vast majority of these have since dropped their claims or been found to be fit for work, according to the Department for Work and Pensions figures. The assessments part of the Work Programme introduced by Mr Duncan Smith, a scheme costing up to £5 billion under which private-sector providers are paid to help the long-term unemployed find work. More than 2 million people who previously claimed sickness payments are gradually being assessed to determine whether they are eligible for the main incapacity benefit, Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). If they are not, and cannot find work, they have to claim the less generous Jobseekers Allowance (JSA). Mr Shapps said: “One of the cruelest things about this welfare system, which had developed over decades...is that it traps people who want to work hard and get on in life with no other option but to be trapped into a life on welfare. “It’s cruel, I think the system had actually become literally cruel, even evil to people. People suspected for a long time that incapacity benefit had been used by the previous government to hide the unemployed. “This is a new figure, nearly a million people have come off incapacity benefit...before going for the test. They’ve taken themselves off. My big argument here is this is not these people were trying to play the system, as much as these people were forced into a system that played them.†Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, said: “On average families will be £891 worse off this year because of changes introduced since 2010. All this comes at a time when a flatlining economy has seen prices rise faster than wages and unemployment rise again this month. “And while ministers trumpet the small rise in the income tax personal allowance, they should admit that it is hugely outweighed by things like cuts to tax credits and child benefit, higher VAT, the bedroom tax and the granny tax. "They are giving with one hand, but taking away much more with the other.†http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yep about time too, my sister has been worrying loads about her assessment even though she has MS as so many people have been trying to fake the symptoms.... About time the system got tough, if you have a genuine need you shouldn't have to worry. I used to live next door to a guy who hadn't working in years due to a bad back, didn't stop him doing feck all and when I came home from a hard days work in the summer to see him in his deck chair drinking cold beers saying "been a scorcher today" it was as much as I could do to stop myself from ramming the fosters can up his fat useless lazy @rse 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I think they could have been stricter, benefits should be there to keep you alive till you get back on your feet, and not a method of avoiding work. I say bring in food vouchers like the old ration books. Can buy any food any where with it. But you can't spent them on things like fags and booze. Luxury items they should have to fund themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensurfer Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) I agree it could be stricter but is a start. But really, sickness benefits for acne??? My god. I see no problem with a system which can help those genuinely in need but its been so lenient that people get away with theft. I can name a few cases I'm personally aware of where people genuinely need assistance but also where people are taking the **** and im sure we all can. I essentially work my arse off for one week a month so some kid with acne can go sit in the sun? No thanks. Really shows how many people are faking it when so many come off the system willingly just before testing! Edit- The government had a trial recently where rent money was paid directly to the tenants rather than te landlord to "Help them understand the responsibility of money" What happen? A 75% increase in non payment of rent. Because these scroungers go out and buy luxurys with it knowing they won't get kicked out of the house as the system is too soft. I don't often shout at the radio, but that certainly got me wound up. Edited March 31, 2013 by Aliensurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Less people on benefits the better. A lot of people just scam it. I like the £26k cap. I've seen people have more and more kids to get more money. Scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Stricter would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 We've just rented out our flat to new tenants, the guy works as a waiter at an Indian restaurant. We looked at his file with the renting agency, and his salary for the year is £9000 for the year, we said to the agency we can't rent to them they won't be able to afford the rent. But the agency said its a known fact they are a safe bet and always make their payment. We asked how they are so certain. And they explained the scam. They normally work for family and are paid in cash they declare the 9k but earn alto more in tips etc plus the families help each other out so they never miss payments. The reason their salary is put at under 9k is so they can then claim loads off benefits. They reckon their actual salary before benefits is closer to 20k and then at least another 10k in benefits is earned on top. I kind of don't mind as much as they are working, but its still playing the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) You should mind more. Someone earning £20k a year should be paying £3.5k in tax/ni not claiming £10k in benefits. Edited March 31, 2013 by flyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You should mind more. Someone earning £20k a year should be paying £3.5k in tax/ni not claiming £10k in benefits. ok I do mind, I just think its a little better than not working at all, I'm just glad the rents getting paid. Apparently its almost impossible to prove as they all back each other up, and there is very little paper trail as its all cash in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtB Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Edited - I sort of missed the subject a bit! I'm all for proper illness / disability payments to those who deserve it. BTW my return button won't work in this box! Edited March 31, 2013 by KurtB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RE Leather Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Trouble is Adrian has only put one side of the story over. ATOS the government witch hunters are associated with 11000 deaths. These are the old and vunerable who died as a direct result of ATOS blunders. yes there are 1 hell of a lot of cheats, but people who need help are being turned down and caught up in the frenzy. Like the soldiers who have limbs blown off! As soon as some are given artificial ones and can walk on them to a degree of stability. (There scale) they loose there entitlement. And Dip. How much do you think it takes to look after a quadriplegic bomb victim? £29k would not even cover the round the clock care for 3 months? And you want to put a cap on it? Are these people not deserving of a life? I repeat what I said b4, there is no room for cheats, but punishing the genuine to get back at the few is not the answer! Edited March 31, 2013 by 4RE Leather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Disability from non sickness is completely different. Disability cos you claim you have back problems but are seen playing golf every weekend or going paint balling or fighting sharks abroad is plane wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RE Leather Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Read your 1st post! Disability from non sickness is completely different. Disability cos you claim you have back problems but are seen playing golf every weekend or going paint balling or fighting sharks abroad is plane wrong. Then you should have put that in the 1st place! You quite plainly put in black and white you want a £26k cap period!!! "Less people on benefits the better. A lot of people just scam it. I like the £26k cap" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilMH Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 My wife was at Headley Court for a while as part of her initial rehabilitation (in those days they were allowed to help a very small number of civilians). They deserve every penny they get. It will be a good thing to make sure that the right people get the money - thus not diverting resource, time and effort to the wrong ones. If your are genuine there is no reason at all to be concerned about the tests. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RE Leather Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 My wife was at Headley Court for a while as part of her initial rehabilitation (in those days they were allowed to help a very small number of civilians). They deserve every penny they get. It will be a good thing to make sure that the right people get the money - thus not diverting resource, time and effort to the wrong ones. If your are genuine there is no reason at all to be concerned about the tests. Unfortunately thats not the case Neil. I spent a lot of time at HC visiting people. ATOS are getting a bonus for everyone who they get off or reduce there benefits. This they relish and do not care if you can run or drag your body behind you like a snail. More often then not the assessments are done by admin staff with no or very little medical experience and thats the issue here. Saying if your genuinley ill than you have nothing to fear would not invole the deaths of 11,000 innocents as an MP stood up and said on TV last month. Reminds me of the true story of the soldier from 13 Rifles who had his right leg blasted off. He put down on his benefit form he could not walk 50 yards! One day he was out trialing his new artificail leg with the guys from Rhoehampton Limb Hospital and was being spied on from ATOS. In less than a week his benefits were taken off him and he was charged with fraud. Why? because all they could see was a guy walking. And thats all they wanted to see. So how can can people not worry in they are genuine if this sort of thing goes on! I have attended 6 Trubunals on behalf of others and one who was wounded, all because of the blinkered conception that everyone is a cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planetsurfer2 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 The amount of benefit fraud is insignificant compare to the bank frauds. As usual punish the weak not the bankers. The people from ATOS should be boiled in very hot oil. Scum of the highest order. So far worldwide bankers have stolen 36 trillions dollars... This is where the real issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Sadly its banking and stock markets that make the world go round. With regards to ex military personnel on benefits, they should have their own system. If they've fought, and been injured, be it physically or mentally, then they should be entitled to what ever they need. I have no issue about paying taxes to support people who've risked their life for me and been injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 We who pay taxes should pay them for anyone that is genuinely disadvantaged no matter what they've done. protect the poor and the people without. If anyone honestly believes they shouldn't do that then they aren't a human being and we would be better of with them not on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizurd Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 and I meant whatever they've done as in work. Not criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bounty Bar Kid Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Read your 1st post! Disability from non sickness is completely different. Disability cos you claim you have back problems but are seen playing golf every weekend or going paint balling or fighting sharks abroad is plane wrong. Then you should have put that in the 1st place! You quite plainly put in black and white you want a £26k cap period!!! "Less people on benefits the better. A lot of people just scam it. I like the £26k cap" I can't think of every scenario. Everything has to be looked upon on its own merits, but a £26k cap for most would be a good way of preventing scammers trying it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 George Osborne will later defend the Government's controversial benefits shake-up - insisting Britain can no longer afford to reward people who do the "wrong thing". The Chancellor is to condemn the old system as "broken", warning Labour that they are out of step with public opinion on the issue. The intervention comes after 660,000 social housing tenants with a spare room began to lose an average £14 a week in what critics have dubbed a "bedroom tax". Wider welfare and tax changes coming into force this month will also see council tax benefit funding cut. And working-age benefits and tax credit rises will be pegged at 1% - well below inflation - for three years. Meanwhile, disability living allowance (DLA) is being replaced by the personal independence payment (Pip). Trials are due to begin in four London boroughs of a £500 a week cap on household benefits, and of the new universal credit system. Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday that the changes were about "fairness". But he was also facing a backlash after suggesting that he could get by on £53 a week, rather than his current after-tax income of £1,600 a week. "If I had to I would," Mr Duncan Smith told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. In the wake of the comment, more than 30,000 people signed a petition on the change.org website, calling for the minister to try surviving on that money for a year. Speaking at a supermarket in Kent later, Mr Osborne will insist that nine out of 10 working households will be better off as a result of the welfare and tax changes. "For too long, we've had a system where people who did the right thing - who get up in the morning and work hard - felt penalised for it, while people who did the wrong thing got rewarded for it," he will say. "That's wrong ... This month we will make work pay." Mr Osborne will dismiss "depressingly predictable outrage" about reforms, saying he wants to "take the argument" to critics. "Because defending every line item of welfare spending isn't credible in the current economic environment," he is to say. "Because defending benefits that trap people in poverty and penalise work is defending the indefensible. "The benefit system is broken; it penalises those who try to do the right thing; and the British people badly want it fixed. "We agree - and those who don't are on the wrong side of the British public." But shadow Treasury minister Chris Leslie pointed out that the top rate of tax was being cut from 50p to 45p. "While millionaires get an average £100,000 tax cut this week Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) figures show that the average family will be £891 worse off this year because of tax and benefit changes since 2010," he said. "And just looking at the new changes this week the poorest 10% are losing £127 while the richest 10% gain 10 times that - £1,265. Labour would not be making these deeply unfair choices this week. "The benefits bill is rising under this Government because our economy is flatlining, prices are rising faster than wages and unemployment is high. "And it is this Government's cuts to tax credits which have left thousands of working parents better off if they quit their job. "The best way to get the benefits bill down is to get our economy growing strongly and get people back to work." http://news.sky.com/story/1072651/welfare-osborne-defends-benefits-shake-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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