Brake disc and caliper temps, do you monitor?

[andlid]

Hi guys,

 

Do you monitor your discs and brake calipers heat during tracking?

 

I did some monitoring on my last outing and found the following (obviously these figures are ballpark figures since heat might have gone out of the brakes before I got there with my temp gauge;))

 

After driving hard I found that my front discs came up to just shy of 500C and the calipers 200C (fronts). Rear came up to about 190 disc and 90 calipers. The fronts are grooved and dimpled rears are standard Brembo.

 

So I'm within the limits of the fluid (hopefully) Running Motul RBF 660 that has a dry boiling point of 325C (wet 204C)

 

What do you guys see? (and use)

 

Note

I think that due to my fronts holding up for longer I finally managed to bed in my rears I thought I'd managed to get them bedded in but after about 3 sessions (with cooling down properly) I saw the heat of front and rear discs, calipers getting similar heat, and braking felt much better (biased) (and heat numbers where far lower!)

[andlid]

Nobody monitor this? How do you know what you need to address?

[ZMANALEX]

I monitor mine on the Z but not the 35.

 

Alex

[Vik54]

Ask Greekman what happens if you don't

 

Do we not have a pic of the purple calipers somewhere?

[andlid]

I monitor mine on the Z but not the 35.

 

Alex

And what do you see?

 

Btw, saw a GTR Friday in Kirkistown running around, was driving it fairly hard. It shutdown two times?? Someone was saying it's the electronics in it shutting down, when it felt something wasn't right. Second time the discs where RED! First time I think it shutdown the fuelpump... Not sure if this was a badly tuned car (and support mods) or if it was the onboard computer playing hardball Sound of them mmmm

[Greekman]

Don't remember since its been a while grrrrr

Last time I was at donington the performance friction guy was there and measured the temps on all 4 corners after smth like 10 consecutive as hard as it gets laps and said they are ok. Think he said 700?....or was it 500?.....or 550?.....I don't remember....still I had no fade whatsoever.

 

Ps he says to me...."these front rotors have suffered a bit haven't they?"

And I replied a bit worried...."but they are brand new! I have only done a wet track day at cadwell with them!

 

He never replied....but I found out that it was the racing compound of the pads that wear the pf rotors quickly...oh well.

[Vik54]

Yeah but Chris - now you have to tell the story about the purple calipers

[Greekman]

Yeah but Chris - now you have to tell the story about the purple calipers

 

That's why I got the reds ones now

[Jez @ H-Dev]

I spent ages on my previous car measuring disk and caliper temps and trying different pads etc.

 

For an initial setup just get decent pads and fluid in and you should be ok. After that nothing beats a big brake kit - pads last longer, you dont get fade and you can drive as hard as you like. I'd go for K-Sport on a budget or AP if you want one of the best.

[andlid]

I'm just a bit surprised that nobody seem to have done a scientific approach to their brake setup rather then throwing out monies for a BBK (big monies at that...)

 

I've seen people go down the Ksport route and failed also (still get brake fade and imploding hubs due to heat)

 

If I get it right the BBK itself (bigger discs) will only help a bit to have more area to share the heat on, so it's only a question of a little bit longer out on track until you hit the same heat. From where I'm looking at the moment I'm thinking that brake ducts will make the biggest difference or get proper discs that can get rid of the heat quicker. (not go bbk just yet)

 

I was interested to see if someone runs DBA's or PF discs see the same type of heat in their discs / calipers. (since they use different internal channels and the dba 5000's use a complete different floating setup)

 

I'll see what the shims will do. The pads are up for the job (Fronts anyway) rears are probably ok only that they seem to need a good bit of clamp force to work properly so might swap them out for something different.

 

 

what figures did you see when you measured?

 

I might put the Z through a diet plan before going BBK anyway.

[Greekman]

I am running PF disks front and dixcel (they lasted long!) at the back with I think it's po1 racing or smth?, Alex knows, pads at the front and just upmarket rear pads. I ve also opened the little groves at the front plastic wheel arch covers and made them more like holes. That with the titanium shims and RBF 660 and there is no fade any more!!!

 

Only problems is that the front set up is rather expensive combined with premature wear of the PF rotors on these specific pads. But I can confirm that I did 2 then 2 and then 2 more laps at the ring and on the same avo (from 5.30 till 7.30) and on 20% left disks and pads and I got no fade whatsoever....I would have had another go had I not run out of petrol

 

Plus I tested them at cadwell and donington and knockhil thoroughly

[Sam Mcgoo]

I've got a track day on wednesday and I've just fitted the new dba t2 discs with ferodo ds2500 pads. There is temperature monitoring paint on the discs but I have no other way of checking I'm afraid.

[ZMANALEX]

I've got a track day on wednesday and I've just fitted the new dba t2 discs with ferodo ds2500 pads. There is temperature monitoring paint on the discs but I have no other way of checking I'm afraid.

 

 

It is T3 that you have Sam

 

You can purchase a decent hand held laser temperature tool for circa £50.00

[Sam Mcgoo]

oh yeah t3 that's right. I may have had a glass or two off English whiskey.

 

First impressions are very good. They defiantly bite a lot harder than the oem brembos.

I will do a post on them in the next day or two.

 

I've got a track day on wednesday and I've just fitted the new dba t2 discs with ferodo ds2500 pads. There is temperature monitoring paint on the discs but I have no other way of checking I'm afraid.

 

 

It is T3 that you have Sam

 

You can purchase a decent hand held laser temperature tool for circa £50.00

[andlid]

sounds good

 

Can you guys not go out and get one of these?

 

(called pyromoter and can be got for as low as 20£ from amazon.co.uk)

 

And let me know what you get on track sessions

 

The DBA's will show it's maximum temp it hit I think so that might be good enough, but won't show how much heat you actually got into the caliper. (and the fluid)

 

Measuring will be a bit of a hit and miss but would be good to see some sort of figure on it rather the guessing and come down to feel etc. (I'm taking both of you guys run braided lines too?)

 

I wouldn't run standard pads rear, I do think I need something that needs less clamp force to produce good results. I've read up on the DBA's 5000 and in theory I do really like what they've incorporated in them. First stop is new rubber

 

If you want to go that bit extra you can actually check if you need to replace fluid (unless you do that after a hard session where fade has been experienced, makes a big difference on the boiling point if they're is low water % in there)

[andlid]

DS2500 track or street? Don't think they'd been any good for me on Friday

 

 

Carbotechâ„¢ XP8â„¢

 

A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1350°F+ (93°C to 732°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter applications weighing around 2,400lbs or less. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers

[GT4 Zed]

Never bother checking brakes temps as i have no fade or boiled the fluids so presume its doing what it should within operating temps.

On the other hand i check tyre temps and pressure like a hawk and since using nitogen inflation the paranoia has died down because after repeated checks i found the pressure/temp persistently stable and predictable. I would recommend nitrogen tyre inflation to anyone(DD or Track toy) and at £4 a pop its a no brainer

[Greekman]

Never bother checking brakes temps as i have no fade or boiled the fluids so presume its doing what it should within operating temps.

On the other hand i check tyre temps and pressure like a hawk and since using nitogen inflation the paranoia has died down because after repeated checks i found the pressure/temp persistently stable and predictable. I would recommend nitrogen tyre inflation to anyone(DD or Track toy) and at £4 a pop its a no brainer

 

Been using nitrogen since 2007. A Greek mechanic told me about it and I was struggling to find it in hull

 

Now my tyre supplier has got the nitrogen pump and it's free for me to use at my own will

 

Excellent stuff...softer ride too!

[andlid]

Dont have a problem knowing what the best way forward is on the tyre front I know I need new ones

[Neilp]

sounds good

 

Can you guys not go out and get one of these?

 

(called pyromoter and can be got for as low as 20£ from amazon.co.uk)

 

And let me know what you get on track sessions

 

The DBA's will show it's maximum temp it hit I think so that might be good enough, but won't show how much heat you actually got into the caliper. (and the fluid)

 

Measuring will be a bit of a hit and miss but would be good to see some sort of figure on it rather the guessing and come down to feel etc. (I'm taking both of you guys run braided lines too?)

 

I wouldn't run standard pads rear, I do think I need something that needs less clamp force to produce good results. I've read up on the DBA's 5000 and in theory I do really like what they've incorporated in them. First stop is new rubber

 

If you want to go that bit extra you can actually check if you need to replace fluid (unless you do that after a hard session where fade has been experienced, makes a big difference on the boiling point if they're is low water % in there)

I have one of these. Cost around 100 quid. It won't read accurately on shiney surfaces.

 

On the other hand I have a thermal imaging camera which is awesome and reads anything!

[Ekona]

IMHO, the only time you need to worry about specific brake temps is if you're constantly getting a soft brake pedal, or if you're racing. If what you are using is fine and you're happy with it, then knowing whether you're hitting 600c or 700c is irrelevant, albeit interesting to know.

 

It's the kind of geeky thing I'd do at a trackday with some mates as a p*ssing contest for a laugh, but in real terms it's not something most people would ever need to think about.

[andlid]

I'm amazed that people don't check it...

[Ekona]

Why?

[andlid]

Why?

if not you'll just be guessing and second guessing what you should do to increase performance and put money and time in the wrong area... I'd like to know if I cut holes in my lining if it actually made any difference, if I install titanium shims does it hinder heat travelling to my calipers, if I get a different type pad does it help heat buildup, if I install brake ducts does it do any difference... otherwise you just work on the 'feel' and think that something made a difference when it really didn't.

[andlid]

I have one of these. Cost around 100 quid. It won't read accurately on shiney surfaces.

 

On the other hand I have a thermal imaging camera which is awesome and reads anything!

£21.85 GBP is what I paid for that exact one so guessing someone took the mick...