Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well 20mph zones are being introduced but I think this thread is a good example of people being opposed to that happening. Really though the limit is a limit. It is not the reccomended speed you should drive up the narrow road next to the school. Most of the roads you describe have speed bumps. Do you drive through the chicanes and over the speed bumps at 30mph? Nope, you do like 5mph so as not to damage the zed. So the zed is worth slowing down for but not kids? On the same road with no speed bumps what would you be doing, 30mph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I live in Portsmouth, the first area of the country to introduce the 20MPH zones. At first I thought it was an unnecessary and annoying idea (I'm a nanny state hater), but after living with it for over a year I totally agree with it. The side roads in Portsmouth are almost all narrow and have cars lining both sides of the road. It's not easy to see obstructions - pedestrians or otherwise. 30MPH down those little streets is just stupid and dangerous, even 20 seems too fast for some of them. In Portsmouth the approach has been very sensible. Only roads which truly need it have had their speed limit lowered to 20, all larger and main roads are still at 30. The speed limits are clearly labelled when entering and leaving 20MPH zones. I'm quite sure accidents have been prevented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well 20mph zones are being introduced but I think this thread is a good example of people being opposed to that happening. Really though the limit is a limit. It is not the reccomended speed you should drive up the narrow road next to the school. Most of the roads you describe have speed bumps. Do you drive through the chicanes and over the speed bumps at 30mph? Nope, you do like 5mph so as not to damage the zed. So the zed is worth slowing down for but not kids? On the same road with no speed bumps what would you be doing, 30mph? No I drive for what I can see, and if I anticipate that someone may walk out from behind a car I will slow down to a speed I think I can stop or avoid them from. Thats not the lecturers argument though. Their arguement is that if you were doing the speed limit then thats fine. Thats all they were trying to say. That in itself is wrong as if you hit the kid doing 30MPH you'd do almost as much damage as doing 38MPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 no, he did say driving at an appropriate speed is the way to go. But he was using this example to make a point on the reasons of going slower. One of the things he was emphasising was that although we think we know what speed limit a road should be doesn't make us right. The way he proved this was simple. On the screen was a picture of a road, no tricks just a picture of a particular road. there were then 5 options as to what speed limit people thought it should be and we all had a voting device to put in what we thought. The results just showed that most of us simply don't agree, it was an even spread across a few numbers. some 30 some 40 some 50. Yet we all believe we know what speed limit a road should be... We can't all be right can we? Your opinion that the local road is absurd as a 30 is different from the cyclist who uses it to go to work, is different from the pedestrian, is different from the horse rider. So someone analyses the road and determines what speed it should be and thats the speed limit. That person has sat there for a few days putting the research together for it to be changed, you have seen the road for 7 seconds and you know better than them already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I dont beleive for a second that someone has sat for a week on all stretches of all roads to decide what the limit should be. If that were the case there would be many roads near me that would have much different limits as some of them are just plain dangerous. Limits are derrived largely from the classification and size of the road and then altered when people complain enough. I have seen plenty of places on my commutes to work where speed limits have been changed and have made no difference what so ever to accident rates. The reason - speed wasnt the cause - it was either poor visibility or just stupid drivers. If you always have the limit set for the lowest common denominator of driver skill, we may as well go back to having a man infront of the car with a flag. I do like to think I have a more balanced view that most as I regularly cycle on the roads (~100 miles a week commuting), ride a motorbike, drive a car, and have for a period driven light goods vehicles. We dont need better speed limit classifications at all, we need more driver training and punish those that dont pay attention and cause accidents. Speeding in itself doesnt do anyone any harm, its driving too quickly for the surroundings that causes problems. However its far easier to set a limit and then blame anything that should go wrong on someone going "too quick" where more than likely it was becuase they didnt assess the situation properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 That in itself is wrong as if you hit the kid doing 30MPH you'd do almost as much damage as doing 38MPH. no. in this case it was proven scientifically, it was proven that had she been doing 30mph she would have stopped 1m short fo the kid, but as she was doing 38mph she hit the kid and then dragged him for a while. This is what people simply dont understand, the pedestrian does not simply lose an extra limb per mph of speed hit with, its an exponential curve. And a good point he made was, "If 38 is almost the same as 30 then you can drive around at 22mph" Another point: "i have two cars that will be going past, one at 38 and one at 30, you now have to go and stand infront of one of them. choose." I think we all understand exactly what the risks are, the danger involved and the seriousness of the issue. What people don't like, myself included is being told what to do and nannied. It's difficult to seperate the dislike of someone telling you what to do from genuine sound reasoning regarding what you are being told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 As i work nights and travel a lot at very unsociable hours i often think hey there is nobody about why not put my foot down, but then im sure the cyclist / pedestrian that is also coming home at 5am will probably be just as surprised to see me as i am to see them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Even better, you have a yearly test which determines how much insurance you actually pay... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Even better, you have a yearly test which determines how much insurance you actually pay... I LOVE that idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Even better, you have a yearly test which determines how much insurance you actually pay... I LOVE that idea!! I surprised myself tbh, but makes perfect sense, good drivers pay less, people who cant be bothered or dont care pay more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Don't you find that whenever you drive in an unfamilier area the 'locals' are invariably exceeding the 30mph limits and get quite agitated if they have to follow you at the legal limit? That has been all too apparent in numerous visits to Wales in recent years with the tell-tale Welsh flags on cars letting others know. On our drive-outs in Wales we have certainly made a point to ensure the speed limits in the 30/40 zones are respected as there so that a convoy of ZEDs attracts the right attention rather than otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spursmaddave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Don't you find that whenever you drive in an unfamilier area the 'locals' are invariably exceeding the 30mph limits and get quite agitated if they have to follow you at the legal limit? That has been all too apparent in numerous visits to Wales in recent years with the tell-tale Welsh flags on cars letting others know. On our drive-outs in Wales we have certainly made a point to ensure the speed limits in the 30/40 zones are respected as there so that a convoy of ZEDs attracts the right attention rather than otherwise. I get this when i visit my folks / sister / nephew in Colchester, all out in the sticks... As i dont know the roads and cant see whats coming i drive pretty conservatively, if i get a local in a range rover up my chuff i find it automatically makes my right foot very very light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 It was put down by most of us on the course as a big reaons we speed, the feeling of holding up a traffic queue. I completely agree though, locals are f'ing annoying and are the worst. I do what Dave does and lift off the throttle, the only control I have of his stopping distance to me is the speed he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragus Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Even better, you have a yearly test which determines how much insurance you actually pay... I LOVE that idea!! I surprised myself tbh, but makes perfect sense, good drivers pay less, people who cant be bothered or dont care pay more. How many people still drive the way they were taught in lessons or during a test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Like i say i'm playing devils advocate having had it poured into my head for four hours so it's easier to do so. If it were me I would have a rgular repeat driving test, and I mean regular with a thoroughtheory test. Without it you would not be able to get insurance. Even better, you have a yearly test which determines how much insurance you actually pay... I LOVE that idea!! I surprised myself tbh, but makes perfect sense, good drivers pay less, people who cant be bothered or dont care pay more. How many people still drive the way they were taught in lessons or during a test? My instructor let me drive at 100MPH in my motorway lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Honestly, the guy didnt really care so much about the motorway speed. Although we all percieve it to be really dangerous, barely any of the accidents happen there and the highest percentage of them happen at 20-30mph!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailHerder Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Serious? For real. He was an ex police pursuit driving instructor. He said I should know how it felt to drive above the speed limit as well as at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Honestly, the guy didnt really care so much about the motorway speed. Although we all percieve it to be really dangerous, barely any of the accidents happen there and the highest percentage of them happen at 20-30mph!! Motorways are by far and away the safest roads statistically If everyone behaved properly on the motorway there would be no problem in having a 100MPH speed limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter10 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've been pretty lucky over the few years that I have been driving. I remember I got caught by 3 cameras in one journey when I was running late for a wedding and fortunately not one must have been active... My main issue with cameras is that they don't really prevent speeding, they just displace it. How often do you see someone doing 40mph, slow down to 30mph as they go through the speed camera and then speed up to 40mph again afterwards? The camera prevented speeding for all of 50 yards. I think cameras are a good thing if used properly. However I'm more for people standing behind the guns. I know police officers who take a speed gun out, pull drivers, start writing them a ticket, then after gauging their attitude towards what they have done either continue to issue the ticket or rip it up and let them off with a stern warning, machines don't have discretion and I think this method is a lot more effective. If you get a bit of an ear bashing and that "fear" of being prosecuted and then let off, you may think twice next time. I hope they do follow through with the idea of raising the limit on a motorway to 80mph though. I have never driven in Germany and whilst I know only sections of the Autobahn is unrestricted, does anyone know what their accident statistics are like? I wonder how many of their accidents are foreigners having a bit of fun rather than locals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andlid Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'd take the points, 4 hours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianphampton Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I went on one in June (Carrington, Manchester, following a photo taken by Staffordshire Plod) for 36 mph in a 30 Before I went I was going to extract the urine from them, but in the end I just sat and took it on the chin as I didn't think it worth provoking them. (Yes, I bottled it) Did I learn anything? Not much. I know my signs and Highway Code and the stopping distances, and I never said anything about how a competent driver in a well maintained and well set up vehicle can stop way before their 15 year old generic calculations - but there was about ½ hour of interesting stuff on how to recognise what speed limit you're actually in. It's four hours of your life you'll never get back, but. . . . look on the bright side - you didn't get 3 points on your licence and it's only £25 more than the £60 fine. They did give you the option of taking the points and the fine if you didn't want to take the course, so. . . . I don't think you can really buck the system and in the end it's easier to just swallow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickledSushi Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Sat one of these courses at the weekend in N. Ireland after being clocked at 42mph in a 30mph zone back in the summer - I wasn't even in the zed but an automatic Honda CRV! Only bit that really perked my interest was when the instructor told a story about how some young lad had taken his new high powered sports car out for a spin and lost control of it coming off the road into some trees. He then showed pictures of the accident and yup, you guessed it, the car turned out to be a 350z (or Nissan 240x as the instructor called it! ). It was sad to see a zed all smashed up like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwantone Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 On the course I attended in the summer, the policeman who took the course categorically stated that they hid the camera vans. They were out to catch numbers! The 10% +2 "tolerance zone" is a guideline that comes from ACPO but is NOT a rule. The courses are not an automatic option to getting the points and a fine, they are for "mild" speeding offences only. It was my 1st offence of any kind in 44 years of driving so it must be pretty obvious that I'm NOT a systematic exceeder of the limits or I'd certainly have been caught before. The rule is to be doing the speed limit (or less) when you get to the sign and keep at that speed until you clear the sign at the end of the limited stretch. This is what I'm now doing and I'm frustrating like hell the drivers behind me who are wondering what I'm playing at. Well it's tough for them 'cos I don't want any more of the points/courses. As an aside, I'd guess that 30% or so of the course was aimed at making drivers look out for motorcycles. EDIT - I was driving a long wheelbased Pajero with a caravan on the back, hahaha Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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