Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 My sentiments exactly Christos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Do you think the ESP is too sensitive for the Zed or do you feel its perfect ? And i'm not talking about everyday driving, i'm talking about when you want to "ENJOY" the car on safe occasions I don't think it's too sensitive for spirited driving at all, as if you drive the car neatly then it never kicks in (even on track, a tidy line doesn't set it off). The times when it is far too intrusive is when trying to make a sharp exit from a junction, or even booting it in a straight line in the shift from 1st to 2nd. I'm not saying your driving isn't neat and tidy as the quickest line through a corner is with a degree of slip as I'm sure you know, but that's not something I particularly want to do on the road anyway. I've confidence in my own ability and confidence in the car, but it's the surface on the road that I don't trust and that's why I wouldn't try and take a corner like that. Each to their own and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 We've probably covered this, but remind me, what tyres do you have, what tread left on them and when was the last time you had your geometry checked? Not meaning to be blunt, but you have 2 options as to why it is happening: (1) the car setup isnt right somehow (tyres, geometry, etc) (2) the ESP is too nannying for your style So why not get the car checked over and if all is well with that just turn it off and be happy that your skills will keep you on the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 my driving style is fine, smooth and balanced, and i dont spin off at traffic lights i am 38 an example of what i mean is during a "slight" drift on a bend the ESP just jumps in with no warning or progresivness, its just boom and loss of power which during a moment of youthfullness make the adjustment feel more over done then needed, and like Chris mentioned, the zed dont give the power back quick enough Now before you all jump on the band wagon and shout about public roads and spirited drives etc etc all i am saying is IMO the ESP is too sensetive for a car of this caliber and i just wondered what you lot thought too ? I know your not attacking me H5 but there are a few posts if you read back where i am getting a bit of stick about my driving abilities which are some what presumptuous. I didnt realise there were so many proffesional drivers here with the ability to judge my driving from a thread ! I dont and wont brag about my past as i dont feel i am the best driver in the world. Greekman is..he told me so but i do have ability and maybe i should of mentioned that, i take responsibilty for that and realise i probably walked into it. appologies Let me rephrase the initial question........ Do you think the ESP is too sensitive for the Zed or do you feel its perfect ? And i'm not talking about everyday driving, i'm talking about when you want to "ENJOY" the car on safe occasions Being honest I only read the first page and picked up from there, hence where the quote is from. I didn't mean your personal driving style, I meant anyone who may be regularly getting the TC kicking in Do I feel it is too intrusive for daily driving? No. It has even been argued that on track driving with the ESP on shows whether you're keeping in the limits of the traction available. Not 'fun', but fast. The speed it gives the power back I assume is based on when traction returns. I did notice a big difference in when it kicked in when I had the wheel alignment etc sorted on the car. It may not be as quick as we'd like but the road surfaces in the UK are shocking and you never know if the next roundabout is covered in diesel or not. That's why mine stays on as I have seen too many cars wrecked. For fun and sliding around, the only way is with the ESP off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Geometry is spot on, just had it checked out, tyres on the rear are new 7mm and on the front 3.5mm. I appreciate its slippy out there too and i dont condone driving like a c$%t on public roads but i dont own the zed for track days alone, or drive a micra to work and back. Its a car that is meant to be driven. I guess i am comparing it to my others cars which had a different level of sensitivity around how the ESP reacted ! Hay Ho, thanks for all the advice, i still love my Zed and i guess i will adapt to it rather then be 100% responsible for thinking it would adapt to my ability lets all be safe now Cheers peeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 How new are the new rear tyres? Scrubbed in properly yet? And you didnt say what make/model they are. If they are new with tyre release agent on them still, or 'Stones, then that alone will explain it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 They are the Bridgestone ones Chris. the rears have about 1k on them and i never assume livelyness without a bit of warmth run through them, or the car Like i said it was more about how the ESP reacted/jumpd in/cut off rather then grip. I appreciate once grip is lost the ESP would do its job, its how it does it i thought was abit "over" sensitive. Thanks again though. I really do apprecaite everyones opinion, its good reading and experience in itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Like i said it was more about how the ESP reacted/jumpd in/cut off rather then grip. I appreciate once grip is lost the ESP would do its job, its how it does it i thought was abit "over" sensitive. Ah, yes in that case, its far too agressive. Almost makes you headbutt the wheel Stones are rubbish though unless they are well warmed up so even the best throttle finnesse can light them up in second gear changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yeah, the RE040's in the wet sent my ESP light into christmas tree mode! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yer i sort of got the jist earlier in the thread that i need to look at better tyres £££££££ But its the old which one ? Toyo ? Faulken ? there isnt a definitive answer and everyone on here is 50/50 So maybe santa might have to decide for me, i sort of want Nurrish's media system too Wheres my credit card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yer i sort of got the jist earlier in the thread that i need to look at better tyres £££££££ But its the old which one ? Toyo ? Faulken ? there isnt a definitive answer and everyone on here is 50/50 So maybe santa might have to decide for me, i sort of want Nurrish's media system too Wheres my credit card its easy neither of them and put the vredestein ultrac sessantas on, problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Think both Falkens and Toyos perform pretty much the same as each other. I have Falkens and they are a definate step up from stock. They arent the best in the wet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks Rich i just love MORE choices the wish list for my Zed is off the scale now and i plan to do lots to it too I guess keeping it on the black bit comes first though eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Toyos have performed great for me, wet or dry, Zed, Lotus and Volvo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks Rich i just love MORE choices the wish list for my Zed is off the scale now and i plan to do lots to it too I guess keeping it on the black bit comes first though eh i would say the ultimate tyre choice would be the michelin pilot sports, as they offer the best grip possible and i know several other track dayers use them and rate them extremely highly. the sessantas are about as close as you'll get while still paying only a bit more than the falken/toyo type price. toyos and falkens are good but i think the other 2 options are better. toyos tyre compound isn't as good as it used to be and i find the side walls to soft, and falkens are very good but only to a point, and mittedly you'll only find that point if your pushing extremely hard, and i mean super hard. so for everyday fast road users the falkens are good. but if your a track whore then i wouldn't. no point in turning this into a tyre review thread. as there are plenty of them already. but loads of info out there. some like the stones in o50 form other like pirelli rosso's, so lots of choice but for me taking into price and performance the sessantas are the best option for those that are fast road users etc and do the odd track thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vale Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Cheers Rich, and again thanks to all for the input. I think we can safely round this thread up there dont you think guys and gals Kindest regards, Vale (Lee) See you at the next meet soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Tyres or no tyres....balanced or not balanced driving, the Zed's ESP is oversensitive....my maser's was even worse...but try a 335 or an M3 and then you will know how smoother the ESP could be!!! Yes you can slide on all 4 wheels on a track but on the exit the ESP will kick in if you want to push hard....and if you try and tilt the back end of the car in order to position it better for a corner it will kick in again. An example...at Brands Hatch the other day with very aggressive lines and the ESP on i was doing low 1min 1secs. With the ESP off and less aggressive lines i was doing high 58secs low 59secs. Then again i prob wouldnt have 'kissed' the tyre wall if i had kept it on....or wasnt that aggressive over the kerb ...or i was a more skillful driver...or my tyres were better....or or or.... What i am saying is its down to the individual....judging on people's driving skills, driving style, car's set up, tyres etc through a forum is not right....cos you cant drive 2 cars and compare! So to summarize: The Zed's ESP is sensitive comparing to an M3 (stupidly sensitive), excellent comparing to a maserati 4200gt! Yes Vale it could have been better.....if only the Zed had a manetino switch.....if only!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLizard Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 whats esp? cant remember last time i used that, mine doesnt work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If the ESP comes on then your sliding, which means your pushing the car beyond the desired limits of driving quickly. Sliding round a bend, whilst fun, is not as quick as driving through it smoothly on a racing line. When I went to the Top Gear track, the instuctor belted it round 7 seconds than I could, and the ESP lightly hardly came on at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 If the ESP comes on then your sliding, which means your pushing the car beyond the desired limits of driving quickly. Sliding round a bend, whilst fun, is not as quick as driving through it smoothly on a racing line. When I went to the Top Gear track, the instuctor belted it round 7 seconds than I could, and the ESP lightly hardly came on at all. That doesnt mean he wouldnt do it even quicker with the ESP off... On racing cars the ESP is helping you be quicker...like the TCS did in F1...but ours is for safe road use which means its more sensitive than what it should or could be... if that was the case the racing mode in a ferrari f430 wouldnt totally disengage the TCS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 If the ESP comes on then your sliding, which means your pushing the car beyond the desired limits of driving quickly. Sliding round a bend, whilst fun, is not as quick as driving through it smoothly on a racing line. When I went to the Top Gear track, the instuctor belted it round 7 seconds than I could, and the ESP lightly hardly came on at all. That doesnt mean he wouldnt do it even quicker with the ESP off... I can see both sides of the arguement here. If you drive perfectly then you will never break traction so it will never come on, and you will be the quickest around the track. But we're all human, and we do take it past the limit just slighly when we are trying to drive on the limit - and its here when TC is a pain in the butt. It cuts the power too violently which does slow you down. If on the an airfield activity day, I turn TCS off as I know I will go over the limit and TCS will slow me down. Now if you can drive pretty much prefectly and always be on or below the limit then TCS wont bother you. Saying that, the main time I have noticed it slow me down is, as said before on this thread, in very low speed, tight corners when trying to get on the gas again - which is a lot on an airfield activity day. I have never noticed it on more sweeping bends like on a real track where you can load the tyres up nice and smoothly. If on a big track you are getting TCS kicking in, its pretty obvious you are on the limit and maybe you should back off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 When the ESP kick in, yes it slows you down. But at that point if it was turned off, you would have exceeded the limit and wouldn't be gaining time, you'd just be going fast around the outside of a bend as you slide and spin the wheels.......makes you feel macho and in control of the big lump of metal but not conducive to optimum driving...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLizard Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 youll never make full use of the lsd with the TC on imo, utilising that is the quickest way round a corner, as said previously, some race logic TCS might improve cornering speeds but the ESP in the zed is for safety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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