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Ow no another NA build!


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After reading a couple of builds here including that of @350Butcher i thought time to start my own thread.  First of all some pics of my car. Hate it or love it.  Why the NA build?  W

Finally it's done!!! Took a day of from work so me and my buddy could spend all day on it and we finally have the cams installed and the timing chain is placed and triple checked to make sure everythi

So we got the idle ready. Gonna continu tuning after 2 weeks.  

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Photo's from the intake: 

The intake now is a 3.5 inch steel intake (can't weld aluminium yet) wrapped in heat reflecting tape with underneath a heat shield. 
The 'heat shield' near the filter is a bucket from a local construction market. 

KojMrWX.jpg
3IvArV8.jpg

Still have some issues with heat soak so gonna change the steel pipe for some plastic pipe to see if that makes a big difference. The other solution will might be a ebay electric intake turbo thingy to give enough cold air to the intake (by blowing away the hot air surrounding it) 

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Glad everything is pretty much sorted with this !
Prior to dismantling my engine I had also done a similar thing with the intake (although my filter is by the crash bar). If the car is sitting I think you'll just have the slightly higher intake temp until it's moving.

I also wrapped my PPE headers and have some flexible heat-shield stuff that I'll put over them once my engine is built.

 

Actually hoping to finally pick up my heads today ! (9 months later!!!)

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20 hours ago, RobPhoboS said:

Glad everything is pretty much sorted with this !
Prior to dismantling my engine I had also done a similar thing with the intake (although my filter is by the crash bar). If the car is sitting I think you'll just have the slightly higher intake temp until it's moving.

I also wrapped my PPE headers and have some flexible heat-shield stuff that I'll put over them once my engine is built.

 

Actually hoping to finally pick up my heads today ! (9 months later!!!)

Yeah i think the problem is that it is sucking in hot air at idle because the heat can't go anywhere. Should be easily solved

 

Good te hear that your heads are finally done! Can't wait for your build

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  • 1 month later...

Small update.

While the car is up and running we have a small electrical problem. The app and tps sometimes will get incorrect voltages turning the tps off and stalling the engine.

 

The haltech ecu didn't give any voltages back to see which one is causing the problem. 

So far we have replaced the app sensor, checked the wiring, replaced the fuse box in the engine bay because that one had water damage yet the problem is still not solved

 

I have updated the firmware of the haltech because this might be the one causing the problem. After the update I can finally log the voltages so that's a plus. This update was for fixing the tps problem so fingers crossed.

 

P.s. go check if their is water under your battery, the drain will easily get clogged. Just found out multiple zeds got this problem

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  • 2 months later...

I think i finally found the electrical problem (replaced all the engine wiring), currently the car is running without problems so i can finally fix the tune. 
 

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I now can say that all the electrical problems are solved so i can finally finish up the tune! 
I also have created a short video so you can hear the exhaust sound it produce. 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Finally time for a update.

Fixed all the quirks only 2 minor issues left but this Sunday I will do the last tuning part. Timing, and then we finally can see how much power it is making or how big the boom will be

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Wow , great build can't believe ive missed this, glad I came accross it as I have not seen the playdo valve piston gap done before.

Engine sounds great. B)

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On 23/02/2021 at 07:50, itsLeon said:

I now can say that all the electrical problems are solved so i can finally finish up the tune! 
I also have created a short video so you can hear the exhaust sound it produce. 

 

Sounds very similar to mine. But then we do both have upgraded wider bore headers and the same plenum.

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Posted (edited)

So last sunday we put to car on the dyno. 
We now make around 313hp @ 6400 RPM (havent raised the RPM limit yet) and the the torque curve is still going strong, no signs of it going down so thats a big plus. But we have found some small problems. 
Will listing to the engine we noticed it was very loud and difficult to hear knock so i have to find a solution for that to make sure the engine is not knocking. Because we couldn't listen to knock the timing is on the low side (hence the low HP numbers, below stock timing). 
The other problem we are having is that i need to upgrade the fuel pump because thats only good for around 350hp and i expect to reach near the end of the RPM. 

 

Also because everyone loves dyno sheets, here we compare my car against a bolt on 350z. 
(The dip in the torque at the end is because of a very soft RPM limit lowering the timing from 6000 to 6500 in steps to a max of -15)
GhtBPui.jpg

Edited by itsLeon
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I know it says engine power and engine torque, but is that what the wheels/hubs or an estimate of flywheel power?

 

It's either a poor bolt on DE with 290hp @ fly, or an amazing bolt on DE with 290hp at the wheels.

 

I can't remember what cams you have, but looking at the torque curve, I suspect peak power will be around 8k...

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..I'm gonna say that's wheel hp/torque, looking at the peak torque numbers, 247 lb-ft for the bolt on, 260 for the built - around 300 lb-ft at the fly most likely.

 

Very impressive both the bolt on car and the built motor - although could be a slightly high reading dyno?

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No this is engine power and not wheel. We haven't use this dyno much for power sweeps so must of the settings are still on default, incorrect calibrated. So many correction settings are still on the low side and we just updated the software with many new features so still figuring out all the settings. We use this dyno for a base line run and then see how much we can HP we an add and mostly for the tuning part. 

Will start looking at the new settings and do the run over to see if it gets different results. 

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The accuracy is well out!

 

According to that dyno, the built motor making less torque than a stock motor! (Stock is 274 lb-ft peak) Not to mention the bolt ons one.

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Well that might be true that the build motor is making less torque then the stock motor at low rpm.

 

My engine is using 290 duration cams with 12mm lift so we had to turn off vvt (that is making power at low rpm) the manufacturer has warned me about is that these cams don't like 3000rpm and below.

 

But I did some research about the dyno last night and most owners of these dyno's use a 15% hp correction for drive train losses we had it set on 5%

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With any dyno the numbers are largely  irrelevant. What you need is a comparison which is what Leon has provided in the graph. 
 

His engine will lose out down the bottom and gain at the higher end of the Rev range with strong gains in torque and power above 4K rpm and that’s exactly what the graphs show. 
 

If you keep using the same systems to measure on then you have a consistent reading that reflects the gains youre making from where we were and where you are now. 
 

I’ll be following your progress Leon. 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, itsLeon said:

Well that might be true that the build motor is making less torque then the stock motor at low rpm.

 

My engine is using 290 duration cams with 12mm lift so we had to turn off vvt (that is making power at low rpm) the manufacturer has warned me about is that these cams don't like 3000rpm and below.

 

But I did some research about the dyno last night and most owners of these dyno's use a 15% hp correction for drive train losses we had it set on 5%

15% would be around 342hp then, and that's a lot more realistic considering the build, with lots more rpm to go.

 

I suspect but hope not, that the Kinetix will be the bottleneck as you head towards 400hp+. I hope not as I also have it, but from the parts you have it's the only unproven thing at this level of power/rpm flow.

 

Tbh, even my bolt ons DE with VCT running only comes alive around 3250rpm and up. If you look at dynos of older engines without VCT, you'll see a torque 'hole' below 5000rpm you'd not have on modern n/a engines. I looked up my old Clio F7P graphs the other day - that thing was like it had VTEC/ VVEL, the change was so dramatic around 4500-5000.

Edited by msitpro
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33 minutes ago, 350Butcher said:

With any dyno the numbers are largely  irrelevant. What you need is a comparison which is what Leon has provided in the graph. 
 

His engine will lose out down the bottom and gain at the higher end of the Rev range with strong gains in torque and power above 4K rpm and that’s exactly what the graphs show. 
 

If you keep using the same systems to measure on then you have a consistent reading that reflects the gains youre making from where we were and where you are now. 
 

I’ll be following your progress Leon. 
 

 

No @*!# - I'm not saying they're not useful. Just very inaccurate values.

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2 minutes ago, msitpro said:

No @*!# - I'm not saying they're not useful. Just very inaccurate values.

 

 

Chill out Mr.....Let’s not rubbish this guys build thread eh. 
 

My opinion for what it’s worth is that accuracy between the 2 graphs is good and that what anyone would be looking at 

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2 minutes ago, 350Butcher said:

 

 

Chill out Mr.....Let’s not rubbish this guys build thread eh. 
 

My opinion for what it’s worth is that accuracy between the 2 graphs is good and that what anyone would be looking at 

Read what I'm saying - I'm the guy saying it's already at 342hp - that's rubbishing his build? 🤣

 

The scientific among us will be 'looking' at both - who doesn't compare. Of course, all facts need to be taken into account, altitude pressure, temp, dyno type , etc etc. With knowledge of all of that, you CAN make a good estimate of real flywheel power.

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Guy's i really dont care how much HP its making and if the numbers are correct. The dyno is only a tool for use and not a precise measuring device. There are so many corrections/settings that will influence the numbers its showing. I only care if it is making more power then before. 

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That's fine. Others (like myself) like to compare, with all knowledge taken into account.

 

Out of interest, what spec is that bolt ons car, for comparison? :)

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