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is it possible....


Rock_Steady

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I am thinking about going FI, supercharging to be specific. I have read through builds on here and so on and I was just wondering, is it possible to use ANY supercharger .i.e one from a Jaguar or a mini for example or does it HAVE to be a vortech V2 or V3 because anything else would fail to fit properly or would foul other parts?. If it is possible to use any supercharger does this mean bespoke pipe work? I imagine the vortech superchargers come with a kit ( pipes ) I have done a search but it didn't really throw up any info on this. Has anyone done something like this before? I mean, a supercharger is a supercharger right? Apologies if this has been asked before, I must've missed it somewhere.

Edited by Rock_Steady
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quite a few different types of supercharger out there though... for example the big belt driven twin screw ones that sit on top of an engine will require a big hole to be cut into the bonnet!

 

or are you only referring to centrifugal type superchargers all being the same? And i'd imagine size would make quite a difference, fitting a supercharger from a mini hardly seems worth the effort for the small increase in power it would provide.

Edited by brillomaster
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I know the Mx5 boys use mini superchargers, i think they are Jackson ones to be specific. I see no reason why if you have the skills you couldnt "make one", but there will no doubt be a lot of trial and error with the results. Buying a Vortech, Stillen, HKS etc etc you are pretty much guaranteed a given hp give or take. When all said and done it will probably cost you more to get the equivalent from the above.

Edited by Jetpilot
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Thanks for the replies. Of course, convenience and logic would point me straight down the route of vortech kit, something i could just bolt on and be done with, which is really appealing. i only ask out of curiosity though. I understand that a mini/jackson supercharger wouldn't give any serious gains but i'd be interested to see what would happen if i did manage to get one on with an FMIC and an uprev. I wonder if i could get away with not having to get larger fuel injectors, fuel pump etc. I'm not saying i want to do this on the cheap and risk damaging my zed, i'm interested what little can be done, properly, and get some half decent gains at the same time keeping as many stock components as possible.

Edited by Rock_Steady
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The big problem with using a SC intended for another car is the amount of fabrication to make it fit/work, one of the guys on the supra forum used a Jag SC and it turned into an epic build.

 

While you could use the std fuel injectors with FI it would limit your power, you will also need to fit a fuel return system in order to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, which is necessary to increase fuel pressure in line with boost pressure, so you might as well fit a bigger pump and injectors anyway.

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There are a few things you could do without which will save you money like you don't necessarily need gauges (boost/oil temp etc) and you could get by without an oil cooler but still I wouldn't try to do it without the proper replacement fuel delivery improvement parts like the pump & injectors imo.

 

I'll send you a PM now with a price/parts breakdown of pretty much every part I put on my Zed during the FI build I did. It's not everything but most of it so hopefully it will help give you a more informed view of the costs/parts involved. ;)

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Thanks tricky, you have pretty much answered my question with sound logical advice. i thought that may be the case. So it's possible to use chargers intended for other cars, but it's a ball ache And if i'd have to go as far as you say, then why not just do it all to get the best out of it.

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There are a few things you could do without which will save you money like you don't necessarily need gauges (boost/oil temp etc) and you could get by without an oil cooler but still I wouldn't try to do it without the proper replacement fuel delivery improvement parts like the pump & injectors imo.

 

I'll send you a PM now with a price/parts breakdown of pretty much every part I put on my Zed during the FI build I did. It's not everything but most of it so hopefully it will help give you a more informed view of the costs/parts involved. ;)

Thanks big G!! i really appreciate that :) but i agree, i wouldn't want to do it without the parts you mentioned if they really are essential to the safe running of the car's improved performance. Edited by Rock_Steady
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The big problem with using a SC intended for another car is the amount of fabrication to make it fit/work, one of the guys on the supra forum used a Jag SC and it turned into an epic build.

 

While you could use the std fuel injectors with FI it would limit your power, you will also need to fit a fuel return system in order to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, which is necessary to increase fuel pressure in line with boost pressure, so you might as well fit a bigger pump and injectors anyway.

 

Of topic I totally get your logic with the feul return system

I don't get tho how Litchfield got my car fueling properly without one

 

Surely if there was significant drop he would of seen that in the fueling when mapping the car!

Ian was more than happy that the car was fueling fine on full chat at the level of boost that the standard pully provides on the stillen kit

 

I am however going to have some safety trips built in to the ecu should and big spike happen either way

 

I'm not saying your wrong

But I've coverd a lot of miles of hard driving and had no problems

 

Just interested that's all

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You can basically use any appropriately sized supercharger, but you will need to fabricate a mount, tensioner setup, get it in line, fabricate pipework etc. Mini supercharger would be too small.

 

Unless you have the skills to fabricate/weld I would pass, also being a pioneer is normally expensive.

 

However if you enjoy a challenge, anything can be done. Simplest/cheapest would probably be a Eaton M90 (ebay from a Jag etc) onto the lower intake manifold manifold, and a big hole in the bonnet, simply ugly and effective, could possibly be done with a plate style adapter. I think a DIY centrifugal would be fiddly, and I have not seen cheap OEM centrifugal superchargers.

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The big problem with using a SC intended for another car is the amount of fabrication to make it fit/work, one of the guys on the supra forum used a Jag SC and it turned into an epic build.

 

While you could use the std fuel injectors with FI it would limit your power, you will also need to fit a fuel return system in order to use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, which is necessary to increase fuel pressure in line with boost pressure, so you might as well fit a bigger pump and injectors anyway.

 

Of topic I totally get your logic with the feul return system

I don't get tho how Litchfield got my car fueling properly without one

 

Surely if there was significant drop he would of seen that in the fueling when mapping the car!

Ian was more than happy that the car was fueling fine on full chat at the level of boost that the standard pully provides on the stillen kit

 

I am however going to have some safety trips built in to the ecu should and big spike happen either way

 

I'm not saying your wrong

But I've coverd a lot of miles of hard driving and had no problems

 

Just interested that's all

 

I am not sure just how the VQ deals with load fuelling, as its a non return system, but I am guessing that the ECU increases fuel pump voltage to increase fuel pressure for higher loads, so I would also guess that if you add a low pressure supercharger the supply pressure at higher load is enough to cover the airflow increase, providing the injectors can flow enough.

 

I would also guess that the HR does the same but with much better control since its a better ECU, I would like to see how the GTR fuel system operates, its certainly possible to have a non return fuel system supply enough fuel to supply the higher airflow that a turbo or two can supply, if the control system is sophisticated enough.

 

But if your going to be adding a turbo to a DE or HR I personally would want to see a return system to increase fuel pressure in line with boost given the airflow increase, however I am a little old school. :)

 

Be interested to get Mark or someone who has tuned the GTR to give some input on the fuel system?

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I'm sure the r35 has a return system

 

Ian said with the amount of boost the supercharger was making didn't justify the return system

Any more then yes maybey

 

Ecutek had my car at there place Aswell to change some bits in the software

As it was fresh out of the box then and they thought the same

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Yes I had a little search, but could only find fuel system upgrades for the R35, and not the std system, but it seemed to indicate that it does run a regulator and return system.

 

As most fuel systems have a voltage to load increase anyway I would have thought they had perfected electronics enough to cover fuel supply increase as boost pressure and fuel demand rises, but apparently not, well at least where boosted applications are concerned.

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Do people build their own fuel returns for the 350z or just buy the kits?

 

Discussing this very topic in the wanted section at the moment as I am looking to build my own system as I think the costs for some aeroquip fittings and hose is exessive in the pre built kits.

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How you getting on with FRS Jetpilot? made any progress? ive nearly finished my build just have to pressure test everything and secure all hoses once and for all in there desired spot!

I was trying to go for the cheapest build with the minimum amount of parts when I started...I think ive ended up buying nearly everything now :lol:

Once I had got more than half way and done more reading I figured just do it properly now or something might go wrong and essentially your selling yourself short on power and reliabilty for what you have available

Edited by jumping350
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If you want to be different, why not try out a Valeo electric supercharger. Ideally used to remove turbo-lag but also good to deliver instant punch at lower speed and rev ranges, albeit pretty useless at higher revs on a large engine. But the principle of giving some oomph at legal speeds and keeping stock parts woudl work well.

Yes you need to fit some super-capacitors and a regeneration alternator, yes you need to plumb it in, although its going to be less engineering than a normal supercharger/turbo, but imagine the F1 fun of watching the capacitors built charge before you kick it :).

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How you getting on with FRS Jetpilot? made any progress? ive nearly finished my build just have to pressure test everything and secure all hoses once and for all in there desired spot!

I was trying to go for the cheapest build with the minimum amount of parts when I started...I think ive ended up buying nearly everything now :lol:

Once I had got more than half way and done more reading I figured just do it properly now or something might go wrong and essentially your selling yourself short on power and reliabilty for what you have available

 

Just waiting on some prices from my buddy who does high pressure hoses etc. Also trying to find out the hose size required, i.e internal diameter.

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Do people build their own fuel returns for the 350z or just buy the kits?

 

Discussing this very topic in the wanted section at the moment as I am looking to build my own system as I think the costs for some aeroquip fittings and hose is exessive in the pre built kits.

this is currently what i'm working on with my z at the moment as i didn't like the cost of the off the shelf systems I don't think it will cost me more than £100-150 :)

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/78039-diy-rear-mount/page__st__360#entry1558554

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