ZeppoJeff Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I thought I would start this off here and I'll update with any info that I get along the way. I was contacted last week from a garage specialising in drift modification asking if the could borrow my car for a week. They were contacted by someone wanting an intake for there zed and sent many models across for examples and the prices they were coming back with were horrendous. So the plan is the garage are going to use my car for making up templates and testing in exchange I get a free intake. I believe so far we have discussed having a single pipe from throttle body to filter, cover over the filter then a coating over that to prevent from heating up. The car is going to be getting out on the dyno through out to check for any changes and hopefully get it smoother and some extra numbers also. Not sure yet but if all goes well then there might be a group buy afterwards once is been tried and tested and I speak to the admin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) http://www.350z-uk.c...age__hl__intake It's understood that any aftermarket intake setup won't show any lasting gains lol Edited December 16, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I always thought the solution was to just get the standard intake box to make a good whooshing sound then job done - sounds good and gives best power returns with a 35 quid aftermarket drop in filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaveney Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I have had three options all with dyno print outs . K & N Typhoon Stillen 06 Air box with BMC panel filter First two were good for noise but lost power and torque . Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 ^ take it all at the same rolling road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Your not going to see any real world gains, all they will be doing is losing the intake resonator, there have been countless intake designs on the market and all of them don't really see anything worth paying the money for apart from looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaveney Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 ^ take it all at the same rolling road? Yes all done on Abbey Hub Dyno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppoJeff Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) * BANG BANG BANG* Shoot me down guys why don't you. As I said in my original post I'm not paying for anything. So that's no cost for me on dyno runs nor for the intake kit. If the kit isn't going to give better results then the garage in question aren't going to build them. If do they get better results than the bigger velocity stack and cosworth filter currently installed then I gain a better intake...if not then nothing lost and nothing gained. Let's all be optimistic here and hope they can come up with a better alternative to the standard box. As for price the whole point of this was to build a cheaper alternative rather the £400+ for a bee r, amuse. Arc etc intake kits on the market. Edited December 16, 2015 by ZeppoJeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) A waste of time, money and effort, IMHO. Nissan have manufactured the best option for the VQ35DE intake. If you want to lose a small amount of power to get the "noise" that you prefer, then go for it. However they would have to come up with something magical to achieve an increase in power. And magic costs money. Edited December 16, 2015 by ZMANALEX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 * BANG BANG BANG* Shoot me down guys why don't you. As I said in my original post I'm not paying for anything. So that's no cost for me on dyno runs nor for the intake kit. If the kit isn't going to give better results then the garage in question aren't going to build them. If do they get better results than the bigger velocity stack and cosworth filter currently installed then I gain a better intake...if not then nothing lost and nothing gained. Let's all be optimistic here and hope they can come up with a better alternative to the standard box. As for price the whole point of this was to build a cheaper alternative rather the £400+ for a bee r, amuse. Arc etc intake kits on the market. Not quite sure what you expected fella....you must have read countless threads on this subject, do you really think a small tuning shop are going to come up with a radical new design by trial an error, when the major manufactures have CAD and flow testing, and large sums of money for development at their disposal, yet they still haven't come up with a better design to make millions from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppoJeff Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 To be honest I expected a bit of a better response mostly 'oh this most be interesting let's see how this pans out' or 'maybe they'll come up with something interesting' Rather than a 'not going to work, nope not at all, wasting your time' etc etc Why do anything to our cars at all? Why put a front bumper on if it's not going to optimum down force, why out wheels on that are going to be heavier than the standard Ray's, why put carbon bits on our cars if it not making the car lighter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You have received informed advice, which I think is spot on. It would be so easy to post up what you want to hear, but I don't think that you would be happy with the end result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-G- Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm interested in seeing how this pans out & don't think there's any downside to what Jeff has been offered. There's intrinsic value in R&D whether the end result is confirming what you already know through received wisdom or by surprising everyone. I'd rather read\hear about someone trying something new than never hear of it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-G- Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'm interested in seeing how this pans out & don't think there's any downside to what Jeff has been offered. There's intrinsic value in R&D whether the end result is confirming what you already know through received wisdom or by surprising everyone. I'd rather read\hear about someone trying something new than never hear of it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I dont think the response was negative, only adding context to the idea. From your perspective it costs nothing but the garage are investing time and effort, do they know that Stillen, K&N and so on and so forth have tried and failed at creating increased power output on a cone style filter? Not being negative, just that there is a 99% chance that the ROI for them is likely to be zero. Hence my comment - what you are describing is effectively building something that hopefully will perform as well as the standard DE box with the bonus of a good sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 While I agree that an air intake is a WOT, I believe there are considerably gains to be had by looking at the manifolds ....... Zurawski Motorsport have made inlet manifolds that perform better than OE or aftermarket, and Ive seen exhaust manifolds, turbo elbows and all sorts that have been knocked up by hobbyists work better as well. Jez @ Horsham started off making generic plug in chips for 200SX's, and even with limited knowledge they were a shitload better than standard management, increasing performance and decreasing fuel consumption at the same time and as far as I know theres not been much time put into developing a better manifold for the VQ. OP, if your man is prepared to mess with the plenum then there are gains to be had: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/modp-1303-nissan-350z-vq35de-engine-build/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I completely agree with someone delving into the manifold/plenum side of things, as its already been proved that its a major restriction to achieving more power from the VQ, I remember Jezes chips well, bit of a breakthrough in the s13 tuning world back in the day, however I'm not sure of the analogy, as the old Nissan ECUs where well known for there overfueling at full load, and a little adjustment to the std map is all it took, but on the enterprising side it was a massive step forward and put him in good stead for where he is today. On a side note whatever happened to Jezes mate Dan, dint he start a brake company, is he still going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) http://engineering.m...ng-and-results/ As you can see, very nice results! We made power throughout the entire powerband, from 3,000 rpm all the way to 6,400 rpm. Our maximum gains were achieved in the midrange, equating to 10 whp and 13 wtq. At the peak of the rpm band, our gains were 6 whp and 9 wtq. When adding an intake, one of the primary concerns is the impact on the stock ECU tune in terms of air/fuel ratios. A review of the results showed that the ratios of our intake are extremely similar to the stock intake ratios. This setup is entirely safe and will not have a negative impact on engine integrity during any driving conditions. Edited December 16, 2015 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) i'm sure many of you have heard how NASA spent hundreds of thousands on developing a pen that could be used in space due to its lack of gravity. The Russians just took pencils. Sometimes, a simpler option is just as, if not more effective. Maybe, just maybe, this small company might come up trumps. Nothing ventured nothing gained. If Nissan spent stupid money developing the air intake on the zed, i wish they had done the same with their rather restrictive exhaust system and that tossing dip stick too. But they didn't, which is why you can get something better/less restrictive aftermarket. Yes magic does cost money but perhaps it's not so out of reach if Nissan have done most of the work. Edited December 16, 2015 by Rock_Steady 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 You have received informed advice, which I think is spot on. It would be so easy to post up what you want to hear, but I don't think that you would be happy with the end result. He didn't ask for advice, he was just sharing something that may be interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes but what lasting gains are to be had if the ecu dials them out days later? *never seen proof of this but so the story goes......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Yes i know you want to see proof of it as i have seen from previous posts on another thread. I'm sorry to break this to you, but i don't think it's anyone's ambition to prove it to you. Nor does it make it any more believable if you give it the thumbs up after the proof has been provided. As per mentioned, if the ECU dials any gains back -which it does- here's what you do... it's a bit of a secret and i'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it but.... GET A REMAP. Edited December 16, 2015 by Rock_Steady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy10v Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Yes but what lasting gains are to be had if the ecu dials them out days later? *never seen proof of this but so the story goes......... MAF based WOT with long term fuel trims could give an initial HP increase from breathing mods due to a leaner mixture than stock, assuming stock WOT is safe/rich. Long term fuel trim would then adjust injector pulse duration to due to continual difference in short term fuel trim target/value giving a higher than stock, but lower than when the mods were fitted. MAF is different from speed density/alpha N, the MAF can read increased airflow from breathing mods, and then take a value from a different cell, so slight increases in efficiency will be "tolerated" by the ECU, but large deviations will not, as the cell values are not there to support it. Stock ECU will allow a certain amount of variation due to wear on components, sensor drift, differences between engines, fuel octane rating etc. A proper live map will optimise all the cell values for the cars increased VE etc, giving a larger power gain. This would appear to be supported by people fitting headers and getting a small HP gain, then a remap giving more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Completely agree, breather mods can provide small gains evident in those bolt on DE's that producing more than factory bhp/lb-ft on a rolling road prior to a remap. to the OP, subscribed David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Yes but what lasting gains are to be had if the ecu dials them out days later? *never seen proof of this but so the story goes......... MAF based WOT with long term fuel trims could give an initial HP increase from breathing mods due to a leaner mixture than stock, assuming stock WOT is safe/rich. Long term fuel trim would then adjust injector pulse duration to due to continual difference in short term fuel trim target/value giving a higher than stock, but lower than when the mods were fitted. MAF is different from speed density/alpha N, the MAF can read increased airflow from breathing mods, and then take a value from a different cell, so slight increases in efficiency will be "tolerated" by the ECU, but large deviations will not, as the cell values are not there to support it. Stock ECU will allow a certain amount of variation due to wear on components, sensor drift, differences between engines, fuel octane rating etc. A proper live map will optimise all the cell values for the cars increased VE etc, giving a larger power gain. This would appear to be supported by people fitting headers and getting a small HP gain, then a remap giving more. That's roughly how I remember mark explaining how the DE ECU managed to null most breathing mods to me quite some time ago, thanks for refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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