stuarty Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) Stuarty said "its never missed a beat in 10 years!" So you had this done ten years ago and are asking if you paid too much? So if i paid £10k labour and it lasted 10 years, would that also be good value too? Edited February 16, 2013 by stuarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Stuarty said "its never missed a beat in 10 years!" So you had this done ten years ago and are asking if you paid too much? So if i paid £10k labour and it lasted 10 years, would that also be good value too? You paid too much in my opinion ! ... Is that OK ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonk Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Stuarty said "its never missed a beat in 10 years!" So you had this done ten years ago and are asking if you paid too much? So if i paid £10k labour and it lasted 10 years, would that also be good value too? No, sorry, you misunderstood, it wasn't how much you paid or how long it's lasted but just how long ago the event happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuarty Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Lol, i only remember because the engineer put a sticker on my boiler stating how long the chemical they put in the system would last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Stuarty, you wouldnt get me changing a boiler for less than 500 quid for a straight swap these days and thats cash price. Worcester boilers are good boilers. Depending on which company is buying the boiler the discounts vary. As my company accounts are in the millions per year we get massive discounts. £2000 is an average price for boiler, stats inc labour etc but you can check online and buy them cheaper and still pay the labour rate plus anything extra he needs to use. This will save you money. 500-700 quid is the going rate for a changeover which should take them around 4-6hrs max depending on location etc and if required to be moved. Is your current system a combi? How many bathrooms & sinks is the boiler supplying hot water to as combi's are not suited to huge houses unless you buy very large output units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 thanks again for your replies all...very much appreciated! £1300?? are you taking the p#ss??? The boiler alone is over a grand,and yes that is trade price. Add the flue,programmer, thermostats, Magnaclean,pipe and fittings,cleansing agent,corrosion inhibtor, oh and if it's all right with you lot some labour,you can see that £1300 or even £1800 is a joke. I can see why £1300 would be 'taking the pi$$' if the Worcester was £1100 but we didn't ask him to quote for a Worcester. We asked for a budget boiler option and a decent boiler price. Is your current system a combi? How many bathrooms & sinks is the boiler supplying hot water to as combi's are not suited to huge houses unless you buy very large output units. our current system is primatic (I think that's the right word)...got a big hot water tank in the loft. There's an upstairs bathroom with shower over bath and downstairs showeroom which is the only room we use... Twelve radiators in total...our hot water pressure is crap so I'm hoping that changing to combi will make that better. but you can check online and buy them cheaper and still pay the labour rate plus anything extra he needs to use. This will save you money. I was hoping this might be an option tbh and will look into sourcing our own. Someone said you can buy decent Worcesters second hand on Ebay but it sounds like a bit of a can of worms though Ricey and Pete...cheers for the info...my uncle's getting the number of some gas dude but I might get some contact numbers from you if he's no good Cheers again you lot S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I would never buy a second hand boiler. Far too dodgy to be honest and no heating engineer will be happy fitting it. What sort of budget do you have for boiler alone? I can have a quick look for you online and find one suitable. The worcester boiler he has recommended will be more than adequate and so will the ideal. Ideal are good boiler also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioneabee Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 be VERY careful of 2nd hand boilers !!! without the obvious condition issue - if you're replacing a boiler it must be to the latest standard (in particular) it must be at least 88.0% (or is it 86% - can't quite remember off top of my head) efficient and its unlikely you'll find a 2nd hand one at that efficiency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Can I add, You can pick the worcester 34cdi up online for about 1150 including flue kit. Can you ask him for a breakdown in costs to see how much he is charging you for the boiler, flue kit, stats, and labour. He will also get to take away the old tank which will be worth 50-100 quid depending on size and weight of the copper and he'll also get to ditch the old boiler for a couple of quid so this will be more money he's making on top of what he's charging you. If you get the breakdown in costs then drop me a pm and i'll have a look to see if its reasonable and how much money he is actually making from the works. I will make adjustements to it as to what I think is reasonable and then you'll be able to buy your own boiler (if you can get it cheaper) and just pay him his labour charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squee Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 Just a quick update as I know my boiler problems have probably caused some readers of this post sleepless nights... It looks like we're just gonna get the gas dude to install and we'll source the Worcester/magnaclean/thermostat etc ourselves. He says labour only charges will be 700/800 and says it will be a 2 - 2.5 day job with two guys working. That sounds quite reasonable to me for the length of the job but if anyone thinks otherwise then let me know! We had another quote from a bloke who's friends with a neighbour who couldn't beat the original one. I hope you will post pics of the kitchen when it is finished? the kitchen's actually been inspired by my Zed....shiny, black and curvy! I've even found unit handles that look the same as the 350 door handles but Mr Squee says I'm taking things a bit over the top Cheers again for your responses! S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Black kitchens look awesome but like the cars a pain to keep clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've had two boilers fitted to two houses in the last 2 years, previously had a Vaillant that worked flawlessly for 24 years in my house, it was only parts availability in the end that killed it off. Both boilers that have been recently fitted were the Vaillant Ecotech combi's. The one in my house has a 37kw capacity and an excellent pump, which you need to consider if running more than one hot tap at a time, we can run the shower/bath and the kitchen hot tap simultaneously with very little if any drop in pressure. The second boiler was slightly smaller, fitted in my daughters house when I refurbed it. The only problem on that was the microbore for the central heating was only 8mm which is too small, minimum 10mm should be used. Neil was instrumental in solving the problems here, and it all works perfectly. Both boilers have wifi controllers, mine is very simple to use and set programmes, I got a high end controller for my daughters system which to be honest was a little more complicated, once i got the default language into English from German it was easier but I wouldn't go for that type (Vaillant) again, stick with simple and it will be cheaper. My boiler cost £2k to be supplied and fitted, boiler itself was sourced by me and so I new that @ £800 was labour/fittings and taxes, took two days to install and the fitter had an apprentice with him, which I like to see, someone getting a good start in life. The other boiler was £1100 + £120 for the controller + £200 for various valves and microbore/flue etc, I fitted it myself and then got it checked out with a gas safe engineer for compliance, as I said had a few teething probs with the microbore but Neil helped me with this. It would have made economic sense to actually get it fitted by an expert at the start but the rest of the refurb wasn't finished so couldn't pay an engineer a few hours here and there. The Worcester is a Bosch company I believe, so quality shouldn't be an issue, but check the link below and do more research before committing. The price you have been quoted sounds very reasonable, remember you are paying for expertise and peace of mind, good luck http://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/domestic-boilers/ecotec-plus-combination/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummerman Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've had two boilers fitted to two houses in the last 2 years, previously had a Vaillant that worked flawlessly for 24 years in my house, it was only parts availability in the end that killed it off. Both boilers that have been recently fitted were the Vaillant Ecotech combi's. The one in my house has a 37kw capacity and an excellent pump, which you need to consider if running more than one hot tap at a time, we can run the shower/bath and the kitchen hot tap simultaneously with very little if any drop in pressure. The second boiler was slightly smaller, fitted in my daughters house when I refurbed it. The only problem on that was the microbore for the central heating was only 8mm which is too small, minimum 10mm should be used. Neil was instrumental in solving the problems here, and it all works perfectly. Both boilers have wifi controllers, mine is very simple to use and set programmes, I got a high end controller for my daughters system which to be honest was a little more complicated, once i got the default language into English from German it was easier but I wouldn't go for that type (Vaillant) again, stick with simple and it will be cheaper. My boiler cost £2k to be supplied and fitted, boiler itself was sourced by me and so I new that @ £800 was labour/fittings and taxes, took two days to install and the fitter had an apprentice with him, which I like to see, someone getting a good start in life. The other boiler was £1100 + £120 for the controller + £200 for various valves and microbore/flue etc, I fitted it myself and then got it checked out with a gas safe engineer for compliance, as I said had a few teething probs with the microbore but Neil helped me with this. It would have made economic sense to actually get it fitted by an expert at the start but the rest of the refurb wasn't finished so couldn't pay an engineer a few hours here and there. The Worcester is a Bosch company I believe, so quality shouldn't be an issue, but check the link below and do more research before committing. The price you have been quoted sounds very reasonable, remember you are paying for expertise and peace of mind, good luck http://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/domestic-boilers/ecotec-plus-combination/ I hope you've got bigger pipes than 22mm coming out from your heating circuit on that big boy ( 37kw ) either that or your installer range rated the boiler down to your heating load or otherwise that lovely pump you talk about will be crispy crackered very soon. Vaillant had issue with the wilo pumps on the 37kw boilers and swapped them to grundfos.. Very expensive and a bitch to swap if its outta warranty!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) yes there is, lovely big bore pipes, 28mm (might even be 32mm), the microbore I'm talking about is the radiator microbore, mine are all 12mm. The big boy in question works at around 98% efficiency at the last service. The pump is very quiet and covered by an excellent domestic insurance, the engineer that fitted it reckons it's an easy system to maintain and replace large items. My post was more to relate that the price for supply and fit is reasonable. I would fit the biggest possible domestic boiler that I could afford, as you may well at one point extend your house or utilise heating in a garage or similar. I thought it was Danfoss that was used, is it related to grunfos? Edited February 25, 2013 by The G Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummerman Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Danfoss are your external controls.. Thermostats, 3/2 port valves.. Don't matter what your rad circuit is as long as your primaries I.e the 28mm is sufficiently long enough to carry away the initial 37kw of heat from the boiler.. And that's nothing to do with efficiency that's someone sticking a flue gas probe in and monitoring how it burns.. Personally I don't use net I use gross on my calculations as its a true reflection of the burn cycle. And the biggest boiler kinda defeats the object of efficiency as its only firing briefly then off again.. What we call cycling. You want the boiler to modulate and stay on as long as possible to gain the most efficiency.. Hence range rating to system load. Unless you have a mansion with around 60 rads you don't need 37kw to heat. Bear in mind, standard 3 be's semi is roughly 15-18kw on heating.. The boiler will still give you 37 to hot water but heating is throttled back to allow it to heat up progressively and maintain that heat load at 20 degree differential ( I.e lose 20 degree by time it returns) rather than bang 90 flow in minutes followed by off on off on off on due to room temp not being satisfied but boiler cooking.. Imagine it as a line you go up, switches off, cool comes right down again so losing that money you have spent, You can keep that line almost straight your on a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plummerman Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 To all the plumbs and heating engineers out there, don't shoot me for the info location or brand. I've only ever had trouble with these but I think this gives the best laymans description of energy efficiency/ modulation for customer to understand http://www.vokera.co.uk/2012/02/17/benefits-of-high-boiler-modulation-ratio’s-explained/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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