iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hey guys, I was at a wee dyno day with a few mates over the weekend. Most of the cars were older modified hondas/nissans and just 4 stock cars (mine included). Discounting the modified guys, all the stock cars made marginally less than book figures on the day, so im pretty happy overall that the dyno readings were accurate. Stock readings: 2010 Civic Type R FN2 14000 miles - 196bhp (book figure ~198) ~1% down 2003 Civic Type R EP3 60000 miles - 188bhp (book figure ~198) ~ 5% down 2003 Celica T-Sport 70000 miles - 166bhp (book figure ~189) ~13% down 2004 (mine) 350z 26000 miles - 250bhp (book figure ~276) ~10% down Me & the Celica pulling much lower than expected, but the celica has done over 70000 miles. I've not got the graph with me just now, but i'll post it up later. Curves were nice & smooth & correct shape, just lower than i'd have expected. I've only owned the car for 6/7 months now, it has 1 prev owner & full service history, next service due in December. One thing i noticed on the rollers, that i've never seen before, when the ESP was switched off, the TCS light stayed fully illuminated throughout the run, i've driven around with ESP off in the past & never seen the TCS light behave this way. (images attached) I'm going to book the car in for a full geometry setup asap, i have documentation of it being done last November, but no detailed information on what the readings were/what they were changed to. Anyone have any other ideas/suggestions to throw at me? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The dash goes mental when on the dyno as the front wheels arent moving, so the car things you are having massive traction issues. This is fine though as you have TCS off. Perfectly normal and wont effect the run. What gear was the run done in and what fuel do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm guessing the figures you give are all power at the wheels? The Nissan figures are given at the fly wheel and is in PS not BHP. Even the 313PS model after an uprev will still only achieve about 290BHP at the hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ah right! It was run in 4th gear, fuel was Tesco Momentum. I've only ever used v-power or momentum since i've owned it (about 2000 miles worth). There was screeching from the rear wheels, which one of the guys at the back of the car noticed, which imaybe supports my tracking/alignment theory. None of the FWD cars made the same noise but as i was the only RWD on the day, i was the only one to use the rear rollers. Clutching at straws a bit. Whatever the issue is, it still produced a good looking graph, so i cant move away from thinking geometry is to blame. HaydnH - all figures were flywheel. The Type Rs got good readings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm guessing the figures you give are all power at the wheels? The Nissan figures are given at the fly wheel and is in PS not BHP. Even the 313PS model after an uprev will still only achieve about 290BHP at the hubs. Because its rollers that will be a flywheel figure not hub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnH Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Unlikely, but worth checking your rear wheel/tyre sizes and remaining tread depth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasso Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The website below provides book provided BHP against actual BHP once it leaves the factory. http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegrap ... artsID=447 Nissan state it should be 276bhp when in fact when dyno'd it's only 246bhp. So you've lost 30bhp just by blinking I would have thought that Nissan dyno their engines on a bench dyno giving the true reading. This is not the case once you have a chasis and 4 wheels attached! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilscorp Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 mine only makes 283after quite a few mods so 250 is about right, very few make what nissan said they should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Rays 18" GT alloys, i think the rears are 245/45/18. Tyres have loads of tread left too, they have covered less than maybe 4000 miles! No obvious signs of uneven wear from them either, but as they are quite new its possibly not noticeable by eye yet. Cheers for suggestions so far folks! Thats quite a shame if they do under read by so much as standard! Although if a few mods & an upRev will lift it up a fair bit then all the more reason to get it done. The main reason i had the dyno done was so i had a base figure to gauge any mods on, something i've never really been organised enough to do in the past! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John tarantula Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 There was screeching from the rear wheels, which one of the guys at the back of the car noticed, which imaybe supports my tracking/alignment theory. you sure the tyres weren't slipping on the rollers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 its a also not uncommon for the early zeds to actually read alot less than the book figure, there were several dyno days many years ago where alot of the early ones were very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 There was screeching from the rear wheels, which one of the guys at the back of the car noticed, which imaybe supports my tracking/alignment theory. you sure the tyres weren't slipping on the rollers? I dont think they were slipping, like wheel spin, becuase the graphs were too smooth & consistant, but if the toe or camber or something were badly off then that might explain the noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So what wheel bhp did the car run? Dyno dynamics rollers? Rotortest are the same idea as the dynapack , the website Wasso posted up was just a car being run on a Rotortest to get a stock car figure reading at the hubs. We normally see around 230bhp @ the hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Yeah, it was Dyno Dynamics rollers Mark, There was no mention of WHP & i dont believe anything was on the print out about it either. Do you usually see as low readings as 250bhp flywheel for 2004 Zeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I've seen a few Zeds around the 250bhp mark (at the flywheel on DD rollers) when standard - I owned one for a while and a few customer cars have been the same. I've not got to the bottom of why though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Did you ever try an UpRev on a stock car that was putting out 250bhp Jez, i wonder if its an ECU thing, rather than mechanical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 strange Jez, Maybe something to do with cam timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Could be cam timing - although if it was stuck with zero advance I'd have expected it to make the same power because at high rpm it's pretty much zero as standard anyway. I did try remapping, so don't think it's anything to do with the ECU. My blue car made about 254bhp standard and then 283bhp with de-cats, spacer + remap. My silver one made 278bhp standard and 309 with the same mods, same dyno, same spec and same year. The next lower power car I do I'll store all the logs so I can compare air flow, ign timing and cam timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Could be cam timing - although if it was stuck with zero advance I'd have expected it to make the same power because at high rpm it's pretty much zero as standard anyway. I did try remapping, so don't think it's anything to do with the ECU. My blue car made about 254bhp standard and then 283bhp with de-cats, spacer + remap. My silver one made 278bhp standard and 309 with the same mods, same dyno, same spec and same year. The next lower power car I do I'll store all the logs so I can compare air flow, ign timing and cam timing. And if the cam/s was stuck it would throw a CEL anyway. Very strange. So what did you do to the map to gain all the BHP other than fitting de-cats , maybe the cats where struggling to flow the exhaust gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 What years were your blue & silver Zs Jez? Would the tuner i used keep all that info on file too? If i rang them would they be able to send the data in a format you could use, or i could get their contact details for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez @ H-Dev Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 My cars were both on 54 plates. The dyno place you used probably won't have any useful data, except for maybe the fuelling. Blue car - showing standard power 257bhp and after spacer, de-cats and remap: Silver car - std vs spacer, de-cats and remap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hmm, im stumped then I'd intended to decat, plenum spacer & remap anyway, but if thats only going to bring it back up to stock spec... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveW Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 My 2004 ran 268 base when run at RS tuning this was with a few mods and was running crazy lean. After the RS UpRev I got 280. Mods for both runs were pop charger, Japspeed K1 with bungs in (this is how it's always driven I think these impeded the max Power) and plenum spacer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMystic Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 So no one really know what causes these under powered engines? But decats, plenum spacer & remap seems to have the same gain on a 250bhp as it does on a 276bhp (+30bhp ish). i.e. the remap, decat & spacer don't fix whatever the issue is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 There isn't any issue its just the cars don't run near stock power figures out the factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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