mdunbar Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Pretty clear who the bikers are on this thread, and I agree with all of them. If you get pi**ed because you regularly get held up off the line by a bike you need to do less racing launches for the sake of your clutch, even the HC says that filtering is fine. A filtering bike isnt a problem to anyone unless they make it that way, a boy racer with an Evo that doesnt understand lift off oversteer is only a matter of time .......... Its not being held up off the line its on the B roads after that. Other than driving like a tool the Biker and Evo did exactly the same thing. Got in the wrong lane to take the exit they wanted. The Biker clearly saw the Evo and changed lanes, unless its a massive coincidence he looked over at exactly the right time... I regularly move out of the way for Bikers on motorways and when there is loads of traffic. But them coming to the front of the queue and putting there bike straight in front of my car with a couple of inches gap does annoy me. It might be legal but it isn't safe for anyone! What is unsafe about it? As long as you give way to the vehicle in front, as you are legally supposed to do, then there is no danger at all. It just takes a bit of common sense on everyone's part as to when it is safe to filter as a biker and when as a car driver you should make room so as not to impede another road users journey. The fact it annoys you is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I've been held up by bikers in Wales before. Let a group of them go flying past as it was a straight bit of road, they then help us up on the twisty bits and wouldn't let us back through 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdunbar Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) If your being held up on any road by a bike, your either a driving overlord, or the guy/girl cannot ride a bike for sh*t Come one we all know cars are quicker round corners. Simple maths with the rubber on the road! Wrong actually. Cars are quicker into corners, due to being able to brake much later and harder, but bikes are far quicker coming out of them. The difference with bikes is you have to be a good rider to carry corner speed in the corner itself, whilst just about anyone can make a car go fast - apart from the evo driver of course Edited September 24, 2015 by mdunbar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 What is unsafe about it? As long as you give way to the vehicle in front, as you are legally supposed to do, then there is no danger at all. It just takes a bit of common sense on everyone's part as to when it is safe to filter as a biker and when as a car driver you should make room so as not to impede another road users journey. The fact it annoys you is irrelevant. Erm, so bikers shouldn't impede anyone else by putting themselves right in front of other vehicles at a junction too then? Ultimately it's like I said in my first both, both idiots. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Pretty clear who the bikers are on this thread, and I agree with all of them. If you get pi**ed because you regularly get held up off the line by a bike you need to do less racing launches for the sake of your clutch, even the HC says that filtering is fine. A filtering bike isnt a problem to anyone unless they make it that way, a boy racer with an Evo that doesnt understand lift off oversteer is only a matter of time .......... Its not being held up off the line its on the B roads after that. Other than driving like a tool the Biker and Evo did exactly the same thing. Got in the wrong lane to take the exit they wanted. The Biker clearly saw the Evo and changed lanes, unless its a massive coincidence he looked over at exactly the right time... I regularly move out of the way for Bikers on motorways and when there is loads of traffic. But them coming to the front of the queue and putting there bike straight in front of my car with a couple of inches gap does annoy me. It might be legal but it isn't safe for anyone! What is unsafe about it? As long as you give way to the vehicle in front, as you are legally supposed to do, then there is no danger at all. It just takes a bit of common sense on everyone's part as to when it is safe to filter as a biker and when as a car driver you should make room so as not to impede another road users journey. The fact it annoys you is irrelevant. Sorry but me being at the front of a queue at a traffic light and a bike getting very close to my car and deliberately parking at an angle to block my path is unsafe. I could not see him in my right mirror and the light could turn green before he comes to a stop. There is a definite danger. Bikes knock wing mirrors off cars all the time when filtering. So therefore dangerous again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 The difference with bikes is you have to be a good rider, whilst just about anyone can make a car go fast. BWAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: No, not anyone can make a car go fast through a corner. No different from getting a bike to go round a corner quickly, it's all about the person controlling it. It's just more likely to hurt if you get it wrong on a bike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If your being held up on any road by a bike, your either a driving overlord, or the guy/girl cannot ride a bike for sh*t Come one we all know cars are quicker round corners. Simple maths with the rubber on the road! Feel free to pop over to the IOM and see If you can post a 130 mph average, tracks yes, if you can ride, roads not a chance, but having never riden a bike, you wont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 If your being held up on any road by a bike, your either a driving overlord, or the guy/girl cannot ride a bike for sh*t Come one we all know cars are quicker round corners. Simple maths with the rubber on the road! Wrong actually. Cars are quicker into corners, due to being able to brake much later and harder, but bikes are far quicker coming out of them. The difference with bikes is you have to be a good rider, whilst just about anyone can make a car go fast. Incorrect. Speed out of the corner comes down to power and grip. Grip comes from many things but most importantly the rubber on the road. The cars I am talking about easily have 2X the surface area of a bike on the road. I studied Motorsport Engineering and did my final year dissertation on tyre grip so please don't get into this with me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yawn. Pretty clear who the bikers are on this thread, and I agree with all of them. If you get pi**ed because you regularly get held up off the line by a bike you need to do less racing launches for the sake of your clutch, even the HC says that filtering is fine. A filtering bike isnt a problem to anyone unless they make it that way, a boy racer with an Evo that doesnt understand lift off oversteer is only a matter of time .......... Its not being held up off the line its on the B roads after that. Other than driving like a tool the Biker and Evo did exactly the same thing. Got in the wrong lane to take the exit they wanted. The Biker clearly saw the Evo and changed lanes, unless its a massive coincidence he looked over at exactly the right time... I regularly move out of the way for Bikers on motorways and when there is loads of traffic. But them coming to the front of the queue and putting there bike straight in front of my car with a couple of inches gap does annoy me. It might be legal but it isn't safe for anyone! What is unsafe about it? As long as you give way to the vehicle in front, as you are legally supposed to do, then there is no danger at all. It just takes a bit of common sense on everyone's part as to when it is safe to filter as a biker and when as a car driver you should make room so as not to impede another road users journey. The fact it annoys you is irrelevant. Sorry but me being at the front of a queue at a traffic light and a bike getting very close to my car and deliberately parking at an angle to block my path is unsafe. I could not see him in my right mirror and the light could turn green before he comes to a stop. There is a definite danger. Bikes knock wing mirrors off cars all the time when filtering. So therefore dangerous again. Yawn. We are talking about a road which has pot holes and oncoming traffic and a lot narrower track so bikes cant get at dirty angles.... I am not going to get into videos of GTRs racing Ducatti's on you tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Once a bike has the grip, I agree it'll leave most cars for dead. It's getting to the point of having that grip that takes the time, which is why cars carry a higher exit speed as they have more of the rubbery stuff on the sticky stuff. EDIT Correct me if I'm wrong, 370Ad! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdunbar Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I don't know why I am being drawn into this conversation by people who clearly know nothing about motorcycling. Think Bike people. Remember how vulnerable they are whether they annoy you or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Educate us, then. Explain to us why we're wrong, don't just tell us we are. I've already said I don't know everything (I know, I don't believe it myself sometimes!), but I'm always willing to listen to a reasoned argument backed up with evidence. Think Bike is a stupid campaign though. There are stupid bikers as much as there are stupid drivers, and when the two meet there will always be accidents. Bikers should Think Car, as it's going to hurt them more than the car driver if things go wrong. It's a good idea, poorly implemented IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I don't know why I am being drawn into this conversation by people who clearly know nothing about motorcycling. Think Bike people. Remember how vulnerable they are whether they annoy you or not. Its a good debate. I am telling you my opinion and you are saying yours. Its the internet, no one is going to win. Yes I don't know how to ride a bike but I can definitely tell you my opinion on how they interact with me on the road. Bikes are more vulnerable than cars agreed, but them winding through traffic isn't helping their risk profile now is it Edited September 24, 2015 by 370Ad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Think Bike is a stupid campaign though. There are stupid bikers as much as there are stupid drivers, and when the two meet there will always be accidents. Bikers should Think Car, as it's going to hurt them more than the car driver if things go wrong. It's a good idea, poorly implemented IMHO. From my experience most bikers are far more observant than car drivers. Its something which is drilled into you when you learn to ride and once you get out on a bike its a kinda self protection mode you automatically get into. Your constantly looking around you and doing "life savers" like the guy in the video clip whenever you change lanes. When im riding, im predicting what is happening 3 or 4 car lengths ahead as well as around me. Your watching the road, the cars, the drivers, the lights, everything as you automatically assume every driver is out to kill you. For example, if I spot the guy in the car up ahead look over his left shoulder, you can usually assume he is about to turn left, so id keep well behind him. I think the "think bike" campaign is or was aimed to try and make car drivers as alert as bikers. I know that as a biker im much more alert as a car driver than I was before I became a biker. Sure, there are idiot bikers out there, I see them all the time. And as a biker, it annoys me beyond belief as I know what the consequences can be and they should know better! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 you automatically assume every driver is out to kill you A mate who was a courier in London persuaded me to get a bike, I did my cbt etc, passed my test and bought a bike, the first ride out he came to mine and said, the only thing you need to know is, Everone wants to kill you Best motoring advise I have received bar none 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
370Ad Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Think Bike is a stupid campaign though. There are stupid bikers as much as there are stupid drivers, and when the two meet there will always be accidents. Bikers should Think Car, as it's going to hurt them more than the car driver if things go wrong. It's a good idea, poorly implemented IMHO. From my experience most bikers are far more observant than car drivers. Fully agree with this.. Some of the things I see on the M4 in the morning are ridiculous. Especially now cars are bigger and easier to drive. People think they are untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watshot Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 "Think Bike" was aimed at drivers who don't give more than a cursory glance before pulling out at junctions. Assuming that nothing big that can harm them is approaching, they pull out. 'Think Bike' means take another look. Is there something smaller that you may harm if you pull out? A rider can slow down, anticipate, move over etc. but, ultimately there is a point of no return (especially if the vehicle is turning right across both lanes...) and you can guess the rest. Hardly a "stupid campaign". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) So the problem is that a slower moving bike will get in front of you at the lights, and then proceed to drive at the speed limit which holds you up? And to think the grief someone got for mentioning they did 112mph on the motorway the other day Bikes will filter, they are told to do so in the HC and they arent going to stop doing it, I dont see why its a problem - sure, it may slow you down 5 seconds but whats the big deal, lorries/horses/cyclists/knobs who drive on your bumper are far more annoying and far more common I find too. Oh, and whoever claims a bike is faster than a car on a road ........ not unless you are very, very prepared to die a horrible death for a tiny misjudgment they arent. Sure, you need a very fast car, but if there are more corners than straights the bike wont get close. Throw a slightly damp corner and maybe a manhole cover into the mix somewhere and the bike might not get to the end if hes trying to match a car. Edited September 24, 2015 by docwra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Oh, and whoever claims a bike is faster than a car on a road ........ not unless you are very, very prepared to die a horrible death for a tiny misjudgment they arent. Sure, you need a very fast car, but if there are more corners than straights the bike wont get close. Throw a slightly damp corner and maybe a manhole cover into the mix somewhere and the bike might not get to the end if hes trying to match a car. Guess it will depend on the biker & the driver. Theres some great bendy roads near where I live and I know for a fact I am miles quicker on them on my bikes than I am in any of my cars. I find on the bike I can just change lines mid corner, flick it from left to right without even thinking. My bike seems to brake from xxx mph down to nothing instantly and on the other side will get to xxx figures without even thinking (115mph in 2nd gear). The other day on the way home from work I actually thought id push same bends as hard as I could in my car. I thought I was really pushing the envelope (cue topgun music) as it felt really quick and I felt I was not far off the road/car limit. Then I looked at the speedo and realised I was a good 30->40mph slower than I would be on the bike around the same bends. I tread to think what sort of car id need to match the bike and feel as quick & agile around those bends, certainly would probably cost more than the £2k an R1 like mine costs. Edited September 24, 2015 by rabbitstew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Oh, and whoever claims a bike is faster than a car on a road I will hold my hand up to that one and stand by it, i would agree though, a very fast car could, a 370z is not that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 500hp usually does it. Or a GTR, I have a few mad biker mates and they are quite open that they simply wont follow a GTR through twisties, it only needs to brake heavily once and they are knackered - off line at best, sliding into a ditch at worst. Ive no doubt that there are certain roads where bikes can be quicker than cars but as soon as there are corners with reasonable braking zones, Im not so sure. Put them on track where the rider can push harder and Id expect a 1000cc bike to be quicker than anything without downforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 No Gtr's when I was riding, but I would agree with your mates, not something I would take on, in the tight and twisties the only other area of concern was decent rally reps ironically. Swings and roundabouts I guess but any half decent straights or sweeping bends and a car would always be playing catch up, certainly not holding them up The accelaration on a bike is brutal, in every gear at any speed, think from memory an R1 when released in 98 ish would reach 0 to top speed (178 give or take) in under a mile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock_Steady Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I think the most important thing to consider here is, EVERYONE needs to take responsibility for their actions on the road. Drivers should look out and be considerate to Bikers just as much as Bikers should be considerate and look out for cars. We're all on the road, the rules apply to EVERYONE. Motorists should not have to be more responsible for bikers on the road or otherwise. There should be common respect. Just because a biker is in more danger of injury doesn't mean the responsibility should be lain on the door step of the motorist. It means Bikers should be MORE careful. I'm not their dad and they're not my kids. Look after yourself and be responsible for your own actions, don't expect motorists to do it for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbitstew Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 500hp usually does it. Or a GTR, I have a few mad biker mates and they are quite open that they simply wont follow a GTR through twisties, it only needs to brake heavily once and they are knackered - off line at best, sliding into a ditch at worst. Ive no doubt that there are certain roads where bikes can be quicker than cars but as soon as there are corners with reasonable braking zones, Im not so sure. I see what you mean. But mind you, I certainly wouldnt follow any car closely through twisties, as if they brake suddenly then id have nowhere to go. On a bike you never really need to brake hard at all, I just back off a bit, chuck the bike into the bend and around it I go, then power out of it. The accelaration on a bike is brutal, in every gear at any speed, think from memory an R1 when released in 98 ish would reach 0 to top speed (178 give or take) in under a mile My R1 is a 99 model so same engine as the 98 one, and I can confirm its quick. Ive not found any newer bike quicker than it on my local roads yet hence ive kept this R1 now for 14 years. Ive not had it flat out, but when you floor it, it takes off like a space rocket and just doesnt stop. It keeps going & going until you get to the point where you think "fook me, id better back of the throttle now!" You can hit 160 very quickly without even thinking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I want a bike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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