Combi-Boiler - 3 bed/1 bathroom experience?

[Cheesypuff]

I will say if your going to fit a magnetic filter like the magnaclean buy a good and stay away from the magnaclean. I do contract work for British gas and they have had so many leaks and joints blowing off with them they no longer fit them! I would recommend a spirotec which is made of brass rather than plastic and is what British gas would recommend.

 

 

+1

[Neilp]

As a general rule of thumb I would always avoid a combi if possible. Where there is no other option then fair enough but never as a first choice. This come's from someone who until very recently owned a company manufacturing domestic central heating boilers including combi's.

what company and why?

 

I work on combi's and system boilers everyday... whats the reason for not using a combi?

 

 

Don't get me wrong Combi's have there place but if I was spending my own money I would still avoid. Over the years I've seen combi's become the thing to fit and in some circumstances for good reasons, One problem though is the amount of installations where a combi is chosen simply because it's the easiest/cheapest option without enough thought for the demands to be placed upon it. The most regular customer complaint we came across was of poor DHW on combi boilers, usually the boiler would be working to spec though and it was just that it did not produce the dhw the user was used to from their traditional system. You could argue this isn't an issue with the boiler and more the person specifying the correct boiler however I think it's still something to bear in mind.

 

The other common issues with combi's included things like scale formation, where I am the water is exceptionally hard and it's not unknown for plate heat exchangers to fur up in just a few months, diverter valves becoming stuck due to scale build up and diaphragms splitting. Yes you can get water softeners to help with this but in the testing we did the cheap ones just didnt work and the expensive ones are expensive!

 

All combi's however well designed will have more components, moving parts, fittings, joints ect than a traditional boiler and all intricately crammed into a much smaller space than a traditional heating system so there has to be more potential for problems.

 

I see you say you work on Combi's everyday, would that be because they break down the most regularly? That's certainly my experience.

 

I'm not saying combis are rubbish just people should be aware they are not the be all and end all. If a particular combi fits a specific situation fair enough, we have sold many many combi's and have many many happy customers with them just be aware of the extra complexity of them and so the extra potential for problems.

 

As for system boilers I have no problem with them at all, they're a great compromise and if I was replacing my boiler it's what I would have. I would rather not name my company as I still have an involvement there and dont really want to become there spokesman on this forum, forgive me if I don't post on this much more either as I sold up so that I didnt have to spend 24 hours a day thinking about boilers and I'm already boring myself!

i do agree with most of what you said to be honest. I work on them everyday as my company has a massive client with over 600 site which need serviced yearly. Its not breakdowns. Most breakdowns i have been to is faulty pcb's and faulty pressure switches tbh.

 

The dhw being poor is always down to the person choosing the boiler. I'm also a design technician which allows me to have that little edge over a normal "fitter"

 

What people do forget is that you can still get efficient condensing system boilers and dont always need condensing combi's. For small properties with small occupancy i'd say the combi is a great idea but if you are talking multiple bathrooms and showers etc, ie a very large property a condensing system boiler with calorifier will always work better unless we're into massive combi's with huge heat input/output. I'm qualified for domestic and commercial properties so the boilers/burners i can work on can range from 1kw to 1MW heat inputs so i have a fairly broad insight into these things

[Cheesypuff]

As a general rule of thumb I would always avoid a combi if possible. Where there is no other option then fair enough but never as a first choice. This come's from someone who until very recently owned a company manufacturing domestic central heating boilers including combi's.

what company and why?

 

I work on combi's and system boilers everyday... whats the reason for not using a combi?

 

 

Don't get me wrong Combi's have there place but if I was spending my own money I would still avoid. Over the years I've seen combi's become the thing to fit and in some circumstances for good reasons, One problem though is the amount of installations where a combi is chosen simply because it's the easiest/cheapest option without enough thought for the demands to be placed upon it. The most regular customer complaint we came across was of poor DHW on combi boilers, usually the boiler would be working to spec though and it was just that it did not produce the dhw the user was used to from their traditional system. You could argue this isn't an issue with the boiler and more the person specifying the correct boiler however I think it's still something to bear in mind.

 

The other common issues with combi's included things like scale formation, where I am the water is exceptionally hard and it's not unknown for plate heat exchangers to fur up in just a few months, diverter valves becoming stuck due to scale build up and diaphragms splitting. Yes you can get water softeners to help with this but in the testing we did the cheap ones just didnt work and the expensive ones are expensive!

 

All combi's however well designed will have more components, moving parts, fittings, joints ect than a traditional boiler and all intricately crammed into a much smaller space than a traditional heating system so there has to be more potential for problems.

 

I see you say you work on Combi's everyday, would that be because they break down the most regularly? That's certainly my experience.

 

I'm not saying combis are rubbish just people should be aware they are not the be all and end all. If a particular combi fits a specific situation fair enough, we have sold many many combi's and have many many happy customers with them just be aware of the extra complexity of them and so the extra potential for problems.

 

As for system boilers I have no problem with them at all, they're a great compromise and if I was replacing my boiler it's what I would have. I would rather not name my company as I still have an involvement there and dont really want to become there spokesman on this forum, forgive me if I don't post on this much more either as I sold up so that I didnt have to spend 24 hours a day thinking about boilers and I'm already boring myself!

i do agree with most of what you said to be honest. I work on them everyday as my company has a massive client with over 600 site which need serviced yearly. Its not breakdowns. Most breakdowns i have been to is faulty pcb's and faulty pressure switches tbh.

 

The dhw being poor is always down to the person choosing the boiler. I'm also a design technician which allows me to have that little edge over a normal "fitter"

 

What people do forget is that you can still get efficient condensing system boilers and dont always need condensing combi's. For small properties with small occupancy i'd say the combi is a great idea but if you are talking multiple bathrooms and showers etc, ie a very large property a condensing system boiler with calorifier will always work better unless we're into massive combi's with huge heat input/output. I'm qualified for domestic and commercial properties so the boilers/burners i can work on can range from 1kw to 1MW heat inputs so i have a fairly broad insight into these things

 

Unfortunately many of the installers/fitters/whatever they prefer to be called that I have dealt with over the years dont have the depth of knowledge you obviously do and it tends to be these guy's who just fit the combi everytime as the easy option. That added to what became almost the fashion of fitting combi's as some kind of wonder boiler that has no drawbacks then you can see why I feel compelled to chirp up when a combi is universally recommended. Anyway that's enough from me,who wants to talk about boilers when there's shiny cars to look at.

[Neilp]

As a general rule of thumb I would always avoid a combi if possible. Where there is no other option then fair enough but never as a first choice. This come's from someone who until very recently owned a company manufacturing domestic central heating boilers including combi's.

what company and why?

 

I work on combi's and system boilers everyday... whats the reason for not using a combi?

 

 

Don't get me wrong Combi's have there place but if I was spending my own money I would still avoid. Over the years I've seen combi's become the thing to fit and in some circumstances for good reasons, One problem though is the amount of installations where a combi is chosen simply because it's the easiest/cheapest option without enough thought for the demands to be placed upon it. The most regular customer complaint we came across was of poor DHW on combi boilers, usually the boiler would be working to spec though and it was just that it did not produce the dhw the user was used to from their traditional system. You could argue this isn't an issue with the boiler and more the person specifying the correct boiler however I think it's still something to bear in mind.

 

The other common issues with combi's included things like scale formation, where I am the water is exceptionally hard and it's not unknown for plate heat exchangers to fur up in just a few months, diverter valves becoming stuck due to scale build up and diaphragms splitting. Yes you can get water softeners to help with this but in the testing we did the cheap ones just didnt work and the expensive ones are expensive!

 

All combi's however well designed will have more components, moving parts, fittings, joints ect than a traditional boiler and all intricately crammed into a much smaller space than a traditional heating system so there has to be more potential for problems.

 

I see you say you work on Combi's everyday, would that be because they break down the most regularly? That's certainly my experience.

 

I'm not saying combis are rubbish just people should be aware they are not the be all and end all. If a particular combi fits a specific situation fair enough, we have sold many many combi's and have many many happy customers with them just be aware of the extra complexity of them and so the extra potential for problems.

 

As for system boilers I have no problem with them at all, they're a great compromise and if I was replacing my boiler it's what I would have. I would rather not name my company as I still have an involvement there and dont really want to become there spokesman on this forum, forgive me if I don't post on this much more either as I sold up so that I didnt have to spend 24 hours a day thinking about boilers and I'm already boring myself!

i do agree with most of what you said to be honest. I work on them everyday as my company has a massive client with over 600 site which need serviced yearly. Its not breakdowns. Most breakdowns i have been to is faulty pcb's and faulty pressure switches tbh.

 

The dhw being poor is always down to the person choosing the boiler. I'm also a design technician which allows me to have that little edge over a normal "fitter"

 

What people do forget is that you can still get efficient condensing system boilers and dont always need condensing combi's. For small properties with small occupancy i'd say the combi is a great idea but if you are talking multiple bathrooms and showers etc, ie a very large property a condensing system boiler with calorifier will always work better unless we're into massive combi's with huge heat input/output. I'm qualified for domestic and commercial properties so the boilers/burners i can work on can range from 1kw to 1MW heat inputs so i have a fairly broad insight into these things

 

Unfortunately many of the installers/fitters/whatever they prefer to be called that I have dealt with over the years dont have the depth of knowledge you obviously do and it tends to be these guy's who just fit the combi everytime as the easy option. That added to what became almost the fashion of fitting combi's as some kind of wonder boiler that has no drawbacks then you can see why I feel compelled to chirp up when a combi is universally recommended. Anyway that's enough from me,who wants to talk about boilers when there's shiny cars to look at.

[iain10101]

I have a 3 bed 1 bath house and i have The Worcester Bosch 28i Junior 5 year gauruntee. I paid £750 inc a fernox filter, digistat and 6 rads inc TRV's, so there is some good deals to be done. Also I had 2 Mates over that started at 8am, new gas feed, new pipes and relocated into my loft and they charged me £350 inc the copper, finished by 6pm. So all in i paid £1100 and the boiler is spot on! Had a frozen overflow pipe which we got sorted within 20 mins but that was the only issue.

[Neilp]

I have a 3 bed 1 bath house and i have The Worcester Bosch 28i Junior 5 year gauruntee. I paid £750 inc a fernox filter, digistat and 6 rads inc TRV's, so there is some good deals to be done. Also I had 2 Mates over that started at 8am, new gas feed, new pipes and relocated into my loft and they charged me £350 inc the copper, finished by 6pm. So all in i paid £1100 and the boiler is spot on! Had a frozen overflow pipe which we got sorted within 20 mins but that was the only issue.

yep thats a bargain mate, the only thing is if your not a gas engineer or registered installer company the warranty doesnt stand (for homers etc)

 

the frozen condensate pipe is a normal issue these days with extremely cold winters

[andyzed]

Also look at the Veissman range of combi's (see links) had a 35Kw Vitodens 100W combi fitted 2 years ago in a 3 bed house and so far no problems whatsoever managed to get it online for a just over £800.

 

http://www.hawkheatingsupplies.co.uk/Vi ... 5KW_Combi/

 

http://www.hawkheatingsupplies.co.uk/us ... %20res.pdf

 

German engineering at it's best, 3 years warranty on all parts and labour extended to 5 years if fitted by a Viessman engineer which you'll find very hard to match anywhere for a combi boiler.

Very easy to work on and IMO one of the best designed combi's out there that rivals any Worcester/Bosch etc.

Biggest problem I found with the older combi's was they used rubber diaphragm's to operate the Diverter Valve and the rubber deteriorated over time, and the valve doesn't work properly, Viessman use a motorised valve which is far more reliable. High quality stainless Steel heat exchanger guaranteed for 10 years against corrosion which plagued early condensing boilers due to the acidic condensate.

[iain10101]

He is Gas Safe, and registered the warranty for me.

I have a 3 bed 1 bath house and i have The Worcester Bosch 28i Junior 5 year gauruntee. I paid £750 inc a fernox filter, digistat and 6 rads inc TRV's, so there is some good deals to be done. Also I had 2 Mates over that started at 8am, new gas feed, new pipes and relocated into my loft and they charged me £350 inc the copper, finished by 6pm. So all in i paid £1100 and the boiler is spot on! Had a frozen overflow pipe which we got sorted within 20 mins but that was the only issue.

yep thats a bargain mate, the only thing is if your not a gas engineer or registered installer company the warranty doesnt stand (for homers etc)

 

the frozen condensate pipe is a normal issue these days with extremely cold winters

[magic84]

As a general rule of thumb I would always avoid a combi if possible. Where there is no other option then fair enough but never as a first choice. This come's from someone who until very recently owned a company manufacturing domestic central heating boilers including combi's.

what company and why?

 

I work on combi's and system boilers everyday... whats the reason for not using a combi?

 

 

Don't get me wrong Combi's have there place but if I was spending my own money I would still avoid. Over the years I've seen combi's become the thing to fit and in some circumstances for good reasons, One problem though is the amount of installations where a combi is chosen simply because it's the easiest/cheapest option without enough thought for the demands to be placed upon it. The most regular customer complaint we came across was of poor DHW on combi boilers, usually the boiler would be working to spec though and it was just that it did not produce the dhw the user was used to from their traditional system. You could argue this isn't an issue with the boiler and more the person specifying the correct boiler however I think it's still something to bear in mind.

 

The other common issues with combi's included things like scale formation, where I am the water is exceptionally hard and it's not unknown for plate heat exchangers to fur up in just a few months, diverter valves becoming stuck due to scale build up and diaphragms splitting. Yes you can get water softeners to help with this but in the testing we did the cheap ones just didnt work and the expensive ones are expensive!

 

All combi's however well designed will have more components, moving parts, fittings, joints ect than a traditional boiler and all intricately crammed into a much smaller space than a traditional heating system so there has to be more potential for problems.

 

I see you say you work on Combi's everyday, would that be because they break down the most regularly? That's certainly my experience.

 

I'm not saying combis are rubbish just people should be aware they are not the be all and end all. If a particular combi fits a specific situation fair enough, we have sold many many combi's and have many many happy customers with them just be aware of the extra complexity of them and so the extra potential for problems.

 

As for system boilers I have no problem with them at all, they're a great compromise and if I was replacing my boiler it's what I would have. I would rather not name my company as I still have an involvement there and dont really want to become there spokesman on this forum, forgive me if I don't post on this much more either as I sold up so that I didnt have to spend 24 hours a day thinking about boilers and I'm already boring myself!

i do agree with most of what you said to be honest. I work on them everyday as my company has a massive client with over 600 site which need serviced yearly. Its not breakdowns. Most breakdowns i have been to is faulty pcb's and faulty pressure switches tbh.

 

The dhw being poor is always down to the person choosing the boiler. I'm also a design technician which allows me to have that little edge over a normal "fitter"

 

What people do forget is that you can still get efficient condensing system boilers and dont always need condensing combi's. For small properties with small occupancy i'd say the combi is a great idea but if you are talking multiple bathrooms and showers etc, ie a very large property a condensing system boiler with calorifier will always work better unless we're into massive combi's with huge heat input/output. I'm qualified for domestic and commercial properties so the boilers/burners i can work on can range from 1kw to 1MW heat inputs so i have a fairly broad insight into these things

 

 

it will always depend on what its designed to be used for, system boilers dont take that much more time to install, it's the wireing side that will take a little longer. if your house is a large one id always go for a unvented system (system boiller) as with these they have a fast recovery rate, an immertion for back up and there also mains pressure ( to the pressure reducing valve which keeps all pressure after it equal for mixer showers...) only draw back being the amount of space they take up. i think people have been put off by horror storys of it being called a "bomb", there very safe in the right hands and a number of faults have to happen before it gets to that stage. anouther benift you can have is a hot water return mainly used in commercial app's or very large house's. all this does is remove the long dead legs of cold water that need to be run off before you get hot water.

 

end of the day there are so many different system's to choose from, tell the installer what your require ments are and they will tell you whats best for you.

[Rob_Quads]

Well - 2nd company round for a quote.

 

Recommended a straight replacement as he said the tank is in very good condition (controls, valve and pump and all virtually brand new) so its quite a bit more to switch to combi. It would need to be saving us a lot each year to be worth the expense.

 

I think the advise is good the more I think about it. First company also were going towards the straight swap.

 

This guy said they would go for a glowworm - said they are very repliable and didn't think that the worcesters were worth the premium any more. Did say that he would never go for a cheaper boiler as it leads to no end of trouble.

[pathfinder123]

My 2 Euros worth.

Steer clear of Valliant, their boilers do not comply with EU regs on EMC (cause radio interference)..

 

Worcester/Bosch are great, as is their service.

 

Be careful using a new boiler with an old hot water cylinder. The latest boilers rely on a sufficient temperature differential between in and out, old boilers just relied on the thermostat.

 

Newish hot water cylinders have a different length/diameter heating coil fitted to match new type boilers.

 

After fitting our new boiler we had great central heating and cold domestic water until we had the cylinder changed.

 

S.

[rabbitstew]

the frozen condensate pipe is a normal issue these days with extremely cold winters

 

I know loads of people who have had this problem. The plumber I used said that what he does is normally puts a bigger bore pipe than is needed on the condenser pipe when its outside to stop this.

[-Chris-]

Bit of a thread resurrection here but...

 

I've had a quote to move the position of the boiler from upstairs to the kitchen (the kitchen is below the room the boiler is in but it needs to moved to the other side of the room) and replace the boiler for a 30kw Viessmann Boiler. Price quoted is £1850.

 

Would be very interested to hear people thoughts on the boiler and if they think the quote look sensible (i know it's hard to tell with so few details but gut feel is useful).

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

[Rob_Quads]

Price is in the right ball park but as you say can depend on so many things.

 

Main thing i have found is get 3/4 quotes. I got 3, found 1 way way off so went for a 4th which was not quite the cheapest but IMO presented the best solution.