NISSAN GT-R50

[Jetpilot]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/next-nissan-gtr

 

Recent chat with the man at Goodwood, lots of smokes and mirrors in there, but would be shocked if it didnt end up with some form of electrickery, especially as we are a few years away from release.

[Stevie-Boy]

Striking looks get people talking about it, the back end is weird though. Kinda like the designer went for lunch and someone else finished it off.

[GranTurismoEra]

On 21/07/2018 at 23:00, Ekona said:

Which is odd, considering they said that the reason the original R35 was so competent is because of the extra weight...

Ive heard that mentioned. But with Hybrid set up it would be heavier than the NSX at more than1800 KG I reckon...i cant remember the guys name when I get home will put the link up. But things can change from beginning of the year till now. Maybe they are going that route

Edited July 24, 2018 by GranTurismoEra

[Ekona]

Prob end up around 2 ton at this rate! 

[GranTurismoEra]

 

[Jetpilot]

6 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Prob end up around 2 ton at this rate! 

I would absolutely agree that would be a problem, if the weight hindered the gtr, but it doesnt.

[Ekona]

Then why have they made the Nismo versions lighter? We all know that weight is the enemy to dynamics, what the engineer guy said at the start was nonsense to cover up the fact they couldn’t make it any lighter and keep the price down. Now it’s a six-figure car, they can and should try and use more advanced materials to reduce the weight penalty. 

[Jetpilot]

I didnt say it wouldnt be quicker being lighter, i just said its weight doesnt hinder its performance, corners included, so what difference does it make what it weighs on paper and to be fair 25kg is neither here nor there at that lard level 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Jetpilot

[OnlyAfro]

Am I missing something or are you claiming the performance of a car and how quick it is are unrelated?

 

How can weight not hinder performance when you are saying (in a roundabout way) that lighter = quicker?

[Jetpilot]

Its plenty quick enough is what i am saying, not much would keep up with a gtr on track/road  (particularly in 07 at launch) so who cares it weighed 1750kg.

[OnlyAfro]

In 2007 it wasn't an issue, they made a relatively cheap and very fast car, but the weight still hindered performance, just less so than losing it would have hindered cost.

However, they want the new one to be “the fastest super sports car in the world", which probably means they are aiming for a top spot at The Ring, which means competing with the 911 GT2/3 RS, Viper ACR and Hurucan Performante, which don't weigh 2 tonnes and for good reason.

[Jetpilot]

Seeing as the Nismo is only 7 secs off the Viper i dont think its doing to bad at 1725kg, not forgetting less hp and torque of course

 

Granted to get close to the Lambo and Porsche they have their work cut out and theoretically if they did release a 2 ton car that equalled those times, would you still question the weight?

[OnlyAfro]

The Viper is just a massive engine in a lightweight package compared to the high tech, AWD GT-R, which also happens to be 50% more expensive - hardly the bargain it used to be.

 

I'd be willing to bet a 2-tonne GT-R could never beat the GT2 RS, especially considering the only faster, heavier car is the 1300+ hp electric NIO EP9. Yes, it'd be impressive if a 2 tonne ICE car did beat it, but that doesn't change the fact that it would be even faster if it was lighter.

Edited July 24, 2018 by OnlyAfro

[Jetpilot]

3 minutes ago, OnlyAfro said:

The Viper is just a massive engine in a lightweight package compared to the high tech, AWD GT-R, which also happens to be 50% more expensive - hardly the bargain it used to be.

 

I'd be willing to bet a 2-tonne GT-R could never beat the GT2 RS, especially considering the only faster, heavier car is the 1300+ hp electric NIO EP9. Yes, it'd be impressive if a 2 tonne ICE car did beat it, but that doesn't change the fact that it would be even faster if it was lighter.

And the Huracan also happens to be 50%, possible more than the Nismo, is there a point to that? 

 

Ive not once said anywhere it wouldnt be faster if it was lighter ffs, just its a very very fast car for 1725kg or 1750kg in std trim, so who cares its that weight and if the next one weighs 2 tonnes and matches the Huracan, again it makes no difference how heavy it is, that is my point nothing more.

 

 

 

 

[OnlyAfro]

Well, yeah. The thing that made the GT-R special was you got supercar performance for sports car money. If you can now buy a faster, lighter and cheaper car, why would you buy some some fat, ugly, overpriced Datsun.

 

You've said multiple times that the weight doesn't hinder the performance. If it's faster when lighter, the weight is hindering the performance.

2 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

if the weight hindered the gtr, but it doesnt.

2 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

its weight doesnt hinder its performance

 

Yes, weight as a number doesn't matter. If it performs just like a GT2 RS and weighs 4 tonnes that would be fine, but it won't, because physics.

 

[Ekona]

Just imagine how much better a GTR could be if it weighed 1550kg, not 1750kg...

[GranTurismoEra]

3 hours ago, Ekona said:

Then why have they made the Nismo versions lighter? We all know that weight is the enemy to dynamics, what the engineer guy said at the start was nonsense to cover up the fact they couldn’t make it any lighter and keep the price down. Now it’s a six-figure car, they can and should try and use more advanced materials to reduce the weight penalty. 

Still trying to find that video, where the chief engineer mentions weight in regards to going Hybrid...if its going to end up 1850 KG etc with Hybrid tech then they might as well trial it and see how it does.

 

Im no engineer but I have a feeling the weight is making it more stable. But affecting understeer. Which they probably wish to counter with 4 wheel steering system like the NSX?! Interesting!

 

1550 like the 370Z Nismo....Lol I cant see that ever happening  We need to look imposing, maintain stability at high speeds and keep the box tradition. 

[Ekona]

370Z is silly heavy too  

[GranTurismoEra]

1 minute ago, Ekona said:

370Z is silly heavy too  

It is to be fair for its size. Its couple of pounds lighter than the 350Z though which was 1570.. But ive never felt im going to lose control when I had mine. But i felt the weight hindering it a little bit. LOL this weight thing eh. The GT2RS is at 6:47. Ever since I saw that record Ive been thinking Nissan got their work cut out. The porsche is weighing 1400 KG roughly. Reducing weight is a quick fix, but there are other ways around it im sure. 4 wheel steering system, regenerative braking, more downforce, electric motor, carbon fibre and more carbon fibre 

[Ekona]

That's the thing: Does the GTR need to be so big? The 911 has more space in the back for passengers, okay it loses out on the boot space, but it's not like it's not tourable. Even things like the 488 have more than enough luggage space, so really could it not be shrunk to lose the weight a bit without going gung-ho on carbon and watching the price skyrocket?

 

Even a boggo C4S weighs 1545kg, and that's got the 4WD/4WS/2+2/6cylTT engine etc. I'm not saying it's remotely comparable to the GTR in anyway (indeed, no-one looking at either car would be considering the opposite most likely!), but it does show that you can do all that without going mental on weight. If they could do the R36 with the hybrid stuff and keep to 1700kg then that would be a success, but then how much more power does it need? Would it really be that much quicker, and would it not then be priced well and truly out of the hands of the ordinary person?

[GranTurismoEra]

I cant see it being less than £100,000+ and the Nismo version £170,000.....I think its in line with where Nissan are trying to get to in the market and so called inflation. They got a bit of hype coming off the back of the R35. The R36 will be around for 10 years after release. With all these amazing finance deals and packages im sure people who bought a fully specced My17 will be able to stretch to the new one lol.

 

Those Porsches well, what can I say, they are a different class altogether and offer as close to the best driving experience you can get. Lightweight, powerful and even with the rear wheel drive versions perfect handling. But they keep iterating the weight factor as very important. Then you wonder what could have been if it was lighter

[Jetpilot]

20 hours ago, OnlyAfro said:

Well, yeah. The thing that made the GT-R special was you got supercar performance for sports car money. If you can now buy a faster, lighter and cheaper car, why would you buy some some fat, ugly, overpriced Datsun.

 

You've said multiple times that the weight doesn't hinder the performance. If it's faster when lighter, the weight is hindering the performance.

 

Yes, weight as a number doesn't matter. If it performs just like a GT2 RS and weighs 4 tonnes that would be fine, but it won't, because physics.

 

And there in is the key, it never claimed to be a lightweight track orientated sports car and nor will it ever be, i agree it was a fat ugly Datsun that had supercar performance, if not more so in 07, not even the 400kg lighter 997.1 GTRS of that era was close, so no its 1750kg girth didnt inhibit its performance credentials comparably at the time.

 

10 years on its obviously a different story and i agree it is now overpriced not sure where Ekona got his 100k from thats the track nismo engineered version, list is £82k, but even the Nismo is basically using a 10 yr old platform and at 7.08 thats pretty impressive with only 25kg shed. Porsche and Lambo have moved the goalposts and it will be very interesting to see what Nissan bring to the party, but it wont be a lightweight sports car, it will most likely be a big, fat and ugly Datsun, probably one thats very very quick  whether it challenges those two stunning times is speculation, but as 07, they have done it before, chances are they "might" do it again.

 

 

[GranTurismoEra]

R36 wont  be £82000...I can gaurantee that. speculation or not...

[Jetpilot]

Current R35 is £82k list, there was no speculation toward R36 cost

[GranTurismoEra]

The 100k mentioned above was in reference to possible base R36 costs. £82k sounds like base price R35 PURE without premium extras. 

 

Your reply was a mish mash of different reponses lol. Ekona never mentioned price that was me referring to possible R36 costs! The 10 year period was mentioned by me as well in reference to previous models theyve released as well as the Z. No guarantees on anything obviously.