coldel

The Swiss are In in all but name, they are part of the european economic area and have a number of bi lateral agreements with the EU but to have those they need to pretty much act as if in the EU which includes the free movement of EU citizens. A couple of years ago the Swiss had a referendum and decided that they wanted that to stop, but now the EU is in the process of ditching all those agreements if they Swiss go through with it so could see the Swiss on shaky ground in a few years time.

...and somewhat ironically the European Court of Human Rights was the UKs idea...

Straight bananas etc. the bureaucracy that comes out of Brussels I can live with - I am more concerned about what I am giving out in one hand whilst taking with the other - ultimately i want to be better off. If saving £500m on benefits for migrants costs £50bn in export duties to me there is no sense trading one for the other. I want to see a business plan for the Leave idea, where is it? At the moment they are saying they don't want any of the Norway, Swiss or Turkey models, but there is no alternative put forwards, its not as if they haven't had time to do something this has been coming for some time now.

My wife is trained in NLP, transactional analysis etc and she finds the programmes she sees where police deal with the public just ridiculous. The fact that their job is to primarily engage with the public and that most of them have no idea how to do it just quite shocking...the way they patronise, try to humiliate people even when the person is being quite reasonable is nothing short of a farce.

You see this is why i didnt want to discuss my "reasons", i didnt mention immigration, yet you automatically assume its to do with immigration. Nhs tourism apparently costs £200 million, it may be a drop in the ocean, but its 200 million i would prefer used on uk residents Sorry, I wasn't quoting you as using the immigration issue at all or assuming such - more that when people effectively think 'I am voting out because immigration is the cause of all the countries woes' is a good enough reason to actually vote that way, which I wasn't meaning to say you were saying as much in your post.

This is important. Currently energy companies are plowing billions back into renewable energy development, but 1. there isnt enough cash to build what is needed and so they get funds from the government, if they need to build more, then the taxpayer has to pay for this 2. there are only so many wind farms and hydro plants you can physically build on and around a small island 3. there is not sufficient infrastructure to transport the additional power needed around the country The cost of owning the car is not the cost to plug in and charge up and how much VED you pay, its the end to end cost from energy creation to deployment which currently is coping with the tiny percent of electric cars on the road, who is going to pay for all the above to change to accommodate 10m EVs or 20m EVs? You must take a longer view point on it than just the 'I saved £X this month beat that'

It will take 10 years to actually exit and then bed down a completely new economic system operating with the EU, at least. This isn't something you can turn on and off every couple of years. The cost of simply (I say simply rather ironically) will run to billions in terms of just staffing and maintaining our new trade agreements across the EU - that would even vary massively depending on if we adopt a single trade approach or on a bi-lateral basis in which we would need to set up trade agreements with each trading partner. What happens to all the UK nationals outside of the UK once we exit? Its can't be BAU for them. Do we discriminate against an immigrant who is willing to do the sloppy jobs that UK people wont do vs an immigrant that is a doctor? One is higher paid than the other, but both are working and earning their way in life so why discriminate? (which is what I don't like about the reference to the Aus idea). If we want access to a free market i.e. the EU in terms of how we trade, we have to allow for the free movement of immigrants... What about the US? They align with us and support us in many ways, because we get them a voice at the EU table, what happens to that relationship when we become less important in that respect? Trade with the EU is worth something like £400bn per year, we pay around £10bn a year to be in it once you take into account the rebate - are we confident we will not incur trade taxation to the sum of £10bn because if it exceeds that you are already financially worse off? Greenland is an interesting example of the challenges of going it alone - its not a comparable one as theirs is a much simpler model, but that they exited to 'grab back control' of their fishing industry, but now want back in because they cannot negotiate competitive deals with China or the US without being within the EU. Probably sounds like I am a Stay, and I am veering towards that, there is something that makes me feel a little entrepreneurial and tempted by a Leave, but at the moment I dont think many people have really looked into this and what it means...that they are voting quite blind not realising what they are committing to.

PS I am just playing all this back from 'as independent a view' as I can find online, I am no top EU legislative economist! But with just say 1 hours searching you can make a much more informed vote on this than just defaulting to voting 'to keep the immigrants out'

Absolutely you can still push your own local laws but anything which will impact EU law and trading has to abide by laws operating in both directions, there has to be balance of compromise to what both sides expect in a deal? Greenland voted out in the 80's, they managed to renegotiate a better deal on fishing in its waters, so reducing other countries fishing it and allowing for their own fleets to have more access - but, other countries can still fish it. So it can work better, although they now find themselves in an economy that has topped out as they voted out based on that single policy, and now are considering wanting back in, although thats much harder than leaving it seems and will take years.

I have been reading up on the impact on the more objective sites and the idea it appears that leaving the EU will let the UK suddenly become this self serving entity seems pretty wide of the mark. The ECHR for instance, is part of any Europeans countries trade agreements who are outside of the EU. So even if we vote Leave, we still have to sign up to it to negotiate the trade agreements that will bind the UK to the EU, in the same way Norway for example have to. It will be true of many EU policies, except by being out of the EU we no longer have a say in what or how they are created. There seems to be this view that we vote Leave, then the following week we are own country and can do what we like which is not true. Actually the whole exit time period will take a minimum of 2 years before anything actually happens in terms of negotiating the exit.

I guess what I want to hear from the Leave people is what economic model they want to adopt? Something like the Swiss?

My general feeling is that because everything is so vague from both sides everyone will vote on their emotional stand point than any rational one - and it seems like so many people have associated immigration as the driving issue within the EU its likely to work very much in the favour the Leave campaign... ...and my next thought would then be do Scotland have another referendum on UK membership? Leaving the EU is a big constitutional change, one that could justify another vote north of the border.

There you go, easy answer

Good point, will add one, schoolboy error! ...added

Cars will have different dyno readouts depending on state of tune, there is a dyno thread on the forum if you do a quick search where you can see dozens of them

I have never done track time either, but I would guess you want to keep the car in the best power band at all times in terms of the rev range, I guess if you look at a dyno print out you can probably see the band where you achieve the most power and that is not always on the red line?

Is it too early to start debating how to vote on this subject...

Turbos will always give bigger gains for relatively lower costs compared to NA cars, did you not test drive a few before switching over? You would have found if you missed the power delivery of a turbo or not?

HICAS system on the GTS-T I had, you can get a Lock Out Bar but it throws up an error light - simply remove the LED to sort To be honest for day to day driving its fine, it just alters the rear wheels direction by a tiny amount (max circa 5 degrees) to counter loss of control.

I love the way they make 200 of them (pretty easy shape and design to make, give them a 5p printed out certificate, then charge people silly money - people really are mugs nowadays

Paper time for 0-60 for the roadster is not 5.3 seconds I am pretty sure of that from memory its something closer to 6. In any case as Dan says, unless you were on a perfect piece of tarmac, with favourable wind conditions, with perfect shifting and launch plus the fact your car is now a decade old and could have lost numerous horses it doesn't sound beyond the realms that is what your car would run?

R33 GTRs are rear wheel drive with four wheel when needed, they don't have permanent 4WD. My 33 was white, colour really suits it, especially with the iconic rear lights.

Well worth a look, I think its good to sometimes remind ourselves from our relatively comfortable lives, what goes on out there in the world through some quite amazing and emotional moments captured on camera. Sorry, not meaning to be bleak on a Friday afternoon, just found this quite thought provoking... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-35605866

The VX is the natural progression from a Zed

You are assuming the taxation laws stay as is - the government relies heavily on taxing the motorist, it needs the cash to keep the country on an even keel (although not entering into an argument about labour vs tories here), if everyone switches to EV where does all that lost revenue come from? You can only tax ICE cars so much, and if the numbers dwindle to the point all EV enthusiasts are predicting there will be a multi billion pound blackhole in the UKs finances that needs to be filled, which means switching the taxation to EV or taxing the electorate in other areas. Take banking for example, was it 8-10 years ago a big campaign to stop them charging to use cash points and lots of people rejoicing at the money they saved. Now, 10 years on, the free current account I had 10 years ago with breakdown cover etc now costs me something like £10 a month. You will always be charged, just not always through the same channels.