Going the FI route... Advice please :-)

[HARMLU]

First of all merry Christmas to the forum members!

 

So I've owned my zed for two years now. I was considering purchasing a GTR in the next couple of years, but with house buying, girlfriend and investments, that is out the picture now. We will see how time progresses, but in the meantime....

 

So my goal is a 3 year project, not necessarily a power monster but a high quality FI build. I have pretty much managed to keep my car standard so far apart from aem short ram, plenum spacer and stainless y-pipe (and a back box which came with car, whic I am unsure of the make). I want to keep the car standard looking, but will pop a v2 front bumper probably at the stage one stage.

 

Stage 1: supporting mods such as coilovers, Poly bushes and wheels (I want a maximum width wheel without bodywork mods and a 30mm drop and no more than 18" rim). Anything in the engine bay which doesn't need to be remapped (this will be done initially after stage 2). Possibly a cosworth plenum (not sure if this would be necessary with other mods, and value for money if that makes sense). Perhaps HFC's are appropriate at this stage? Not sure if it's a good idea to run standard cats for FI?

 

Stage 2: engine rebuild. From this stage onwards I would really appreciate some expertise in this area. Forged pistons and con rods, plus any other parts that are needed (or recommended), perhaps a new crank. Would like to keep original cams, but depending on condition, may replace for Oem. This will be followed by an uprev.

 

Stage 3: Supercharge - what injectors to get (dw don't look good from recent threads). Anything else that I will need on top of the vortech v-3 kit? Am I correct in saying this kit comes with a FMU and fuel pump? With regards to timing, can this be done with the uprev (if I trailered it), or do I need a piggy back ecu?

 

I'm pretty new to this FI thing and would really appreciate some expertise and experience from the guys who have gone that way.

 

I am planning to start when the weather improves a bit!

 

[OllyB]

Injected dynamics are well rated, also you will probably need to upgrade the fuel system.

[OllyB]

Uprated cats would allow more power to be released from the charger.

Edited December 23, 2013 by OllyB

[OllyB]

I think you would need an uprev after fitting either cats or the plenum.

[HARMLU]

I think you would need an uprev after fitting either cats or the plenum.

I know it would be good to get an uprev, as I it would now for me. But in stage one I'm just trying to get the foundations for the power. I'll only get an uprev at this stage if I had to (ie damaging engine, car not running etc). In which case I'll change these particular mods to stage 2. Thanks for your input, I'm looking in to this injectors now. Will probably get them from the states as they fit in a suitcase quite nicely ;-) noticed there is 725cc and 1000cc for same price ($708). Is there any difference in quality? Realistically I'm not looking at more than 450bhp (I don't think?!), so what would be the recommended?

[OllyB]

I run 725cc @ 470bhp as fitted by abbey motorsport.

[OllyB]

I'd be tempted to collect all the power mods and fit at once so only 1 uprev.

[HARMLU]

I'd be tempted to collect all the power mods and fit at once so only 1 uprev.

 

That's a good idea. I guess new internals wouldn't require an uprev?

[OllyB]

I think it depends weather you alter the compression ratio.

[HARMLU]

I think it depends weather you alter the compression ratio.

 

On the face of it I will keep the c.ratio the same. Unless someone persuades me otherwise. As I said it's not going to be a power monster, but I do want a good quality build

[Ekona]

This thread is outrageous!

 

How dare you come on here, with your common-sense attitude to an FI build, getting all the important stuff beforehand, and having a well sorted plan of action rather than just throwing money and hoping for the best! Scandalous!

 

 

Top work fella, I wish you the best. I'd consider doing the brakes too as a supporting mod. I may not bother with an engine build unless you are looking for silly power, too.

 

The only thing I will say is that by the time you've completed this you'll have spent what, £3k on support mods, £5k on an engine build, another £5k on the s/c kit: That's nearly £15K, plus the value of your car at say £5k, so that's £20k which would go a long way towards your dream of a GT-R. As exciting as your project would be, is it as exciting as living a dream? I'm not sure. Just a thought though.

[OllyB]

This thread is outrageous!

 

How dare you come on here, with your common-sense attitude to an FI build, getting all the important stuff beforehand, and having a well sorted plan of action rather than just throwing money and hoping for the best! Scandalous!

 

 

Top work fella, I wish you the best. I'd consider doing the brakes too as a supporting mod. I may not bother with an engine build unless you are looking for silly power, too.

 

The only thing I will say is that by the time you've completed this you'll have spent what, £3k on support mods, £5k on an engine build, another £5k on the s/c kit: That's nearly £15K, plus the value of your car at say £5k, so that's £20k which would go a long way towards your dream of a GT-R. As exciting as your project would be, is it as exciting as living a dream? I'm not sure. Just a thought though.

 

+1 well said

[Vlad]

You deffo want some high capacity Cosworth fuel rails I got some

[HARMLU]

This thread is outrageous!

 

How dare you come on here, with your common-sense attitude to an FI build, getting all the important stuff beforehand, and having a well sorted plan of action rather than just throwing money and hoping for the best! Scandalous!

 

 

Top work fella, I wish you the best. I'd consider doing the brakes too as a supporting mod. I may not bother with an engine build unless you are looking for silly power, too.

 

The only thing I will say is that by the time you've completed this you'll have spent what, £3k on support mods, £5k on an engine build, another £5k on the s/c kit: That's nearly £15K, plus the value of your car at say £5k, so that's £20k which would go a long way towards your dream of a GT-R. As exciting as your project would be, is it as exciting as living a dream? I'm not sure. Just a thought though.

 

Completely agree! It's all that's been going through my head! However, I like the idea of a car I can maintain myself. I'm not convinced I could maintain a gtr without a specialist. And I do adore my big Bertha (the car!) haha

 

Also, the idea of doing it is a project and to learn along the way is a big plus for me. Another of my considerations is that I will want to mod the gtr which will be big bucks (that won't add value, the same as the zed). However, the main point being though is depreciation of a gtr. I would guess if I purchased a 38k gtr, I may lose 10k in 5 years? I wouldn't say its a car that holds it's value well, and hasn't yet got to the point z's are with regards to percentage value. And that puts me off. If I add on to the gtr a cost of 5k (minimum) worth of tuning over the 5 years, you're already looking at 15k loss over 5 years (minimum).

 

The 350z cost me 7.5k two years ago, which I paid for outright. I know I won't get money back for the 350z tune (not all of it anyway).

 

I've definitely thought about this but I am 26, with good future job prospects, I can wait a bit for my dream car. I just think, for me at the moment i want to keep Bertha!

 

Good spot though

Edited December 23, 2013 by HARMLU

[GT4 Zed]

[HARMLU]

You deffo want some high capacity Cosworth fuel rails I got some

 

Would they make a difference with 725cc injectors?

[HARMLU]

 

Rambled a bit, but makes sense to me! Lol

[HARMLU]

Just looking at pistons and rods, anyone know what the standard compression ratio is?

[Ekona]

10.3:1, I believe.

[Vlad]

You deffo want some high capacity Cosworth fuel rails I got some

 

 

Would they make a difference with 725cc injectors?

I believe so mate! Bennett, gt4zed, running it

 

Edited December 23, 2013 by Vlad

[Adrian@TORQEN]

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/79520-for-sale-370z-aus-1000cc-injectors-bnib/

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/topic/79521-for-sale-350z-370z-aeromotive-340lph-fuel-pump-bnib/

 

Huge savings over the UK prices

[Tricky-Ricky]

Personally I would first decide how much power you want to run, then I would at a minimum fit uprated rods and pistons whether going SC or turbo, next an uprated fuel system with rising rate FPR and a proper return system, size your injectors by the power you intend running and then add 1-200cc for headroom, remember that going to large will lead to bad idling especially if you uprate cams which if going for higher pressures you will need.

 

I would definitely use a stand alone ECU like Link or Syvecs, as although Up-rev is OK it still retains the rather poor knock detection and thresholds, besides you want some form of extra safety features when going FI, I would also look at a bigger rad and an oil cooler, also fit a decent oil pressure gauge, boost, AFR and EGT gauge if you want to keep a track of things.

[HARMLU]

Personally I would first decide how much power you want to run, then I would at a minimum fit uprated rods and pistons whether going SC or turbo, next an uprated fuel system with rising rate FPR and a proper return system, size your injectors by the power you intend running and then add 1-200cc for headroom, remember that going to large will lead to bad idling especially if you uprate cams which if going for higher pressures you will need.

 

I would definitely use a stand alone ECU like Link or Syvecs, as although Up-rev is OK it still retains the rather poor knock detection and thresholds, besides you want some form of extra safety features when going FI, I would also look at a bigger rad and an oil cooler, also fit a decent oil pressure gauge, boost, AFR and EGT gauge if you want to keep a track of things.

 

Thanks for your advice tricky, I'll look in to all those things. I don't want to go massive on power but I have a rough figure of 450whp, which I think is achievable without compromising drive ability.

 

I'll definitely look in to stand alone ecu. Just so I am sure, is a stand alone ecu the same as Fuel Management Unit, or is there a difference?

 

Luke

[Tricky-Ricky]

Personally I would first decide how much power you want to run, then I would at a minimum fit uprated rods and pistons whether going SC or turbo, next an uprated fuel system with rising rate FPR and a proper return system, size your injectors by the power you intend running and then add 1-200cc for headroom, remember that going to large will lead to bad idling especially if you uprate cams which if going for higher pressures you will need.

 

I would definitely use a stand alone ECU like Link or Syvecs, as although Up-rev is OK it still retains the rather poor knock detection and thresholds, besides you want some form of extra safety features when going FI, I would also look at a bigger rad and an oil cooler, also fit a decent oil pressure gauge, boost, AFR and EGT gauge if you want to keep a track of things.

 

Thanks for your advice tricky, I'll look in to all those things. I don't want to go massive on power but I have a rough figure of 450whp, which I think is achievable without compromising drive ability.

 

I'll definitely look in to stand alone ecu. Just so I am sure, is a stand alone ecu the same as Fuel Management Unit, or is there a difference?

 

Luke

 

If your aiming for 450BHP at the wheels then you will need around 500=520BHP at the flywheel, so 600-650cc injectors, and go forged pistons and uprated rods/bolts etc, to get the best torque curve you will very likely have to use some more suitable cams, (talk to Mark at abbey or Jez at HD for recommendations) obviously you will need a flywheel and clutch to cope with the extra power.

 

No! a stand alone ECU will deal with all engine related control, By fuel management unit I suspect you have been reading about the units/kit that comes with the basic vortech SC conversions, personally I would steer well clear of them, as they are just signal fudger and a not ideal fuel system upgrade, you are far better of fitting a decent fuel pump along with the rising rate fuel pressure regulator, fuel rail to suite the injectors and a proper fuel return system.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Tricky-Ricky

[HARMLU]

Thanks everyone for your help so far. Currently with regards to fuel system, I'm looking at:

 

Turbo XS ECU

Injector Dynamics 725 injectors (also still considering other options here)

Cosworth Fuel Rail

Walbro 255 fuel pump

AAM basic fuel return system

 

Has anybody had any experience of the aam fuel return system? In particular, with reference to fitting the system. I think my original ambition is a little strong and am considering rebuilding the engine last now. Obviously with that I don't want push the engine components that much (450whp I am thinking is far too much). I just want a reliable s/c set up that won't compromise the driveability of the car. After this I might decide to take it further or start a new project on a different car. Who knows what's in the future!

 

Merry Christmas!