Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Whoa! Are Superleggera III's really that heavy???? That site's corking. Interesting to see that the Axis Hiros I was after are made of lead and Antera have clearly found a substance that is heavier than lead to make their wheels (sorry Liam, mate ) Worth keeping the thread open for that alone. again, I knew that Axis are very heavy and so are the Anteras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 added the site to the F.A.Q's seeing as it's so handy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 thanks Mike! you might want to attach the pdf file on the post, if you haven't already PS no worries I just did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 My 10p worth... and a bit long winded... I'm with theMinel guys... sorry but it is true you get what you pay for... I am not getting into the discussion of pretty wheel or ugly wheels...but With expensive rims you get the development that goes behind it... Anyone can get onto a PC with CAD data of a wheel and plot STRES/STRAIN analysis (Spurious Finite Element Analysis software can be downloaded for free from the net!!!) under standard loadings and impact conditions. This will give you a calculated representation of the performance in market according to a piece of software (algorithms and calculations methods can vary significantly from one program to another... ) You can then test the wheels for these standard conditions and check the performance, and it can give you "real parts" re-assurance... but that is it... and it will be a small sample of test parts. What you pay for on expensive wheels is going the extra mile , checking more severe loads and things such a durability, fatigue, etc, which you can only do by running the wheels for long periods in test tracks that cost money, with drivers that have to be able to cope with high speed driving over long periods (I guess they will be premium rate drivers). Not only that but bench tests etc... and again cheap companies might try and get away with the minimum...saving on development and time and manpower...it all adds up... Understanding where the limit of the strength of the wheel is and what that equates to in "real use" . Ensuring no fatal failure can occurr taking into account the worst case scenario, of used in markets ( not just UK but the whole world) Think other EU roads are worse that UK roads... You then move into manufactruing and the quality standards that guarantee the casting process, forging processes etc... and the tolerance in the parts performance. I don't know for a fact, but imagine that Nissan would demand a very tight tolerance from the nominal performance they specify, for example within 5% of specified...this means anything outside of this range is scrapped... that is why they cost more ... But suppliers could be making wheels that have a 20% performance difference from nominal....(so long as they pass homologation requirements , which are always the MINIMUM requirement. ) you could end up with a very strong wheel and a very weak wheel in the same car... purely on manufacturing variation... and this is not visible in the shop... Cosmetic corrosion etc,,, is another issue and an area where companies can cut down and offer a 1 year warranty etc... that's another matter, more marketing and maybe getting you to buy new wheels after the 1 year expires... but these companies will not build a reputation for quality... I am only interested in wheels structurally. I want to have confidence that the wheel is designed to survive the life of the car and perform over and above basic requirements. ( and my capability, or lack of capability....) A small cheapo company will give you an assurance that in normal conditions and potential normal accidents, the wheel will have a minimum level of performance... That's it... I don't want to have a doubt in my mind as to how these wheels have been manufactured and tested... They are what decide how my car behaves ... and stays on the balck stuff.. What I think is that I want to be sure that the wheel will survive anything i throw at them , high G', High centrifugal forces, a few kerbing strikes, which are not going to cause a delayed fatigue failure later on... etc... If you are going to buy wheels you should buy wheels that match or exceed nissan owns wheels , ( and then decide which are nice ones...) unfortunately I think this means spending a lot of money... It is why I am not buying wheels yet... to be honest I would not even buy Nismo Wheels... they are design-orientated for race track use...( very specific conditions...), where the concpet of replacing wheels after each race etc... is not so strange... I would go more towards companies with Euro and Rally experience... Konig, OZ, etc... [/img] I hear everything you say which is sound in theory but plenty of folk, especially the kids in the US, fit the brands that have been mentioned above and I'm pleased to say that (with the exception of the alleged "bad batch" of Axis Hiros) there doesn't seem to be any real evidence of failures of so-called cheap wheels. As for longevity of finish there seem to be as many complaints of corrosion etc on Rays/Volks as there are of cheaper companies. I would certainly suggest being very cautious of makes that you might not have heard of but someone like TSW has been around for years without garnering any adverse reputation that I am aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 IMO brands to be trusted should be those with racing pedigree, at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 IMO brands to be trusted should be those with racing pedigree, at least I'd say they'd have to manufacture for Formula One teams, at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 BBS do don't they? OZ too iirc? any others that you guys know of? tell you what mate, when I was looking for wheels I went to the NEC autosport international show and there were ALL SORTS of wheel manufacturers, from cheapos to supercool magnesium, kevlar and carbon fibre (yup, you heard right) wheels. Now that's what you'd want for your Z B)B). Guess what? they were making them no bigger than 17" iirc surely that would be a real no-no for most on here, now would it? :teeth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 100+ in british touring car. Owner of the Honda team, don't think this goes with the point being made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 BBS do don't they? OZ too iirc? any others that you guys know of? tell you what mate, when I was looking for wheels I went to the NEC autosport international show and there were ALL SORTS of wheel manufacturers, from cheapos to supercool magnesium, kevlar and carbon fibre (yup, you heard right) wheels. Now that's what you'd want for your Z B)B). Guess what? they were making them no bigger than 17" iirc surely that would be a real no-no for most on here, now would it? :teeth: You forgot Enkei, mate! Interesting what you say about the NEC. A couple of months back EVO did a bit on the new Ascari which had carbon fibre rims by Dymag. They looked the business and were probably light as air. I think they were 19" but had a racing style central lug so anyone buying for their Zed would need new hubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I picked up a kevlar wheel at Autosport this year and i was so impressed. I did the old "i think this is heavier than it really is" lift and looked stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm sure I saw the Dymag (the carbon kevlar ones, yellowish tint) when I was there? For a laugh i asked the price and sizes (PS their stand was TINY btw, as opposed to other more "commercial" brands) and at the time they weren't making them any bigger than 17, mind you that was about at least 2 years ago, so they've most probably grown incredibly as a company. Those wheels weighed ~ 4-5kg, iirc. awesome stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Dymags off the Ascari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm sure I saw the Dymag (the carbon kevlar ones, yellowish tint) when I was there? For a laugh i asked the price and sizes (PS their stand was TINY btw, as opposed to other more "commercial" brands) and at the time they weren't making them any bigger than 17, mind you that was about at least 2 years ago, so they've most probably grown incredibly as a company. Those wheels weighed ~ 4-5kg, iirc. awesome stuff I'll dig the brochure out that i picked up, had some good reading and these were about 4kg too and 18". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 we are talking about what, £3-4k worth of wheels? :teeth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 we are talking about what, £3-4k worth of wheels? :teeth: Exactly that from what the guy was saying, but if you want ultimate performance then you go for these, well i would thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I don't like the look of them otherwise I would have given them a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I don't like the look of them otherwise I would have given them a thought I did find them a bit fussy to be honest, plain is the new way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzz... Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I am sure they have done all the work and so on... but isn't carbon fibre a bit peculiar material for wheels? As far as I understand carbon fibre is stong and resilient depending on how the strands of fibre and so on are laid out, but if you load them in different direction to what they where designed, they shatter. Also if you get sratched or chips in the CF these become stress concentrators, and later on when you are loading the wheel (high speed for example, arent they prone to just break? I am thinking if they designed it for track use... have they considered Mr lemon head, kerbing them, or do they have a clause saying IF you kerbed them, please remove immediately... (theres 3k in the bin...) I remeber this from mountain bike frame technology, I know it is slightly different but the principle is the same... Once you have a big "off" if the bike frame was marked in the loaded and stressed areas, the frame becomes a nice piece of junk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickya Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 added the site to the F.A.Q's seeing as it's so handy Nice find eh!! I managed to find it as I wanted to compare my new wheels weight with other makes. Interesting reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickya Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 IMO brands to be trusted should be those with racing pedigree, at least Below lifted from http://www.tsw.com/about.php About TSW Alloy Wheels TSW wheels are born of a rich racing heritage. Founded by a former Formula One racing driver, TSW has been involved in motor racing around the globe for over thirty years. Our involvement has ranged from the grueling 24-hour Le Mans to Touring Cars to Spec Miata. Many of the wheels are based on racing technology. TSW pioneered the race-inspired hex nut look that was featured in such standards as the Revo and Hockenheim R, which have been a popular choice for both grass-roots racing and show cars. In keeping with this rich racing heritage, many TSW wheels are named after past and present Formula One tracks. Today, TSW has an absolutely staggering array of staggered wheel applications. Several sizes carry as many as three different widths for the perfect fitment. Staggered wheels are available in sizes from 17" to 22" staggered wheel applications. Staggered applications mean a wider wheel on the rear of the car, and consequently, a wider tire and larger lip on the back of the car. Wheel lips are as large as 5". Yes, that's rightâ€â€5" lips on one-piece cast wheels! Many of the wheels are available in hyper black and hyper silver paint finishes with machine cut lips (often referred to as diamond cut or mirror cut). Although chrome is becoming more popular with TSW enthusiasts, hyper black wheels and hyper silver wheels dominate the current TSW wheel lineup. TSW wheels are sold with hub centric to rings to ensure a vibration-free ride. TSW wheels are manufactured to extremely high standards that often significantly exceed the industry norm, resulting in a smoother, better handling ride. TSW is predominately sold in Europe but is also a major force in North and South America, New Zealand and South Africa. TSW also sells a range of Marquee-exclusive wheel brands. Beyern wheels for BMW. www.beyernwheels.com Mandrus wheels for Mercedes. www.mandruswheels.com August wheels for Audi. www.augustwheels.com Victor Equipment wheels for Porsche. www.victorequipmentwheels.com Cray wheels for Corvette. www.craywheels.com Redbourne wheels for Land Rover. www.redbournewheels.com For the discerning buyer who is looking for three-piece wheels, two piece wheels and stainless steel rim wheels we have a line of wheels called Petrol. To fuel your passion, go to www.petrolwheels.com I do my research about the product before I buy rather than just looking at the price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickya Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 IMO brands to be trusted should be those with racing pedigree, at least Also lifted from: http://www.europeancarweb.com/projectcars/0306ec_mini_cooper_s_stoptech_brakes/ TSW's racing heritage dates back to the '60s, and today TSW wheels can be seen on such Porsche Cup cars as the TSW-sponsored GT2 run by the Freisinger Motorsports team. & Lifted from: http://www.tiny.cc/BVvc3 Born on the Track TSW has a rich racing heritage that goes all the way back to the 1960's. TSW is involved in Motor Racing throughout the world at many different levels. TSW alloy wheels are the product of choice for many professional race car drivers, as well as hundreds of club racers all over the world. TSW, Michel Ligonnet, and Freisinger Motorsports have had an impressive racing relationship. Ligonnet has brought the TSW GT2 Porsche to the podium 11 times in the past 2 years. Many of which were at highly respectable tracks and races... Le Mans, Nurburgring, Daytona, and Sebring. The 1998 season brought four 1st place finishes and a 3rd place overall finish in the PORSCHE Drivers Cup. The previous 1997 season was an impressive one as well, with four podium finishes and a 1st place finish at Watkins Glen. Series winning team of Last Minute Racing chose TSW alloy wheels exclusively to equip their BMW's for their 1995, 1996 and 1997 season. In 1997 Last Minute Racing won 30% of the races, led 50% of the races, achieved 4 track records and set 4 pole positions with the help of TSW Alloy Wheels. Warranty: Manufacturer defects and materials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ok ok Rick, I never said you didn't mate. But i still wouldn't personally buy TSW matter of choice and personal opinions, mate don't take it personally as it's not meant to be personal towards anyone And who on earth would buy a set of wheels just because they are expensive??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickya Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 No probs Val, I was just getting my internet anorak on, digging out facts as I know you like to do also!! We'r not getting personal I hope just geting into a good old argument!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Not everyone has the same knowledge as you and I about wheels. they might think that spending £1500 on TSW's or Ruff's is a sound purchase! IMO brands to be trusted should be those with racing pedigree, at least But i still wouldn't personally buy TSW matter of choice and personal opinions, mate don't take it personally as it's not meant to be personal towards anyone Sorry dude, but you are starting to lose credibility here imho Making it sounds like "facts" first, until someone comes with some extra info, to then "narrow it down" to "personal opinion" .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 look I don't want to change anyone's opinion on specific brands of wheels. All i will say (and have already said, and others with me) is that with a budget of £600 for a set of wheels you can't expect them to be of great quality, workmaship or performance. Of that I'm 100% convinced. if you find me a set of 18" forged lightweight wheels that cost £600 give me a shout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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