First proper wash - Not-so-great results

[autorune]

Hey all, so got round to giving the Z a detail today, first time doing more than a bucket wash all told. Probably took around 3.5 hours to complete. Bearing in mind, I'm not going for some crazy 90% defect reduction or something as the paint is littered with stone chips and the occasional scuff anyways.

 

Steps as follow:

 

• Rinse 
• Foam (CarPlan Demon Foam - running low so chucked in some Fairy. Am I mad for doing that?!)
• Agitate (Generic microfiber mitt, two buckets one for fresh water another for rinsing the mitt)
• Rinse
• Clay (Mothers clay w/ quick detailer as lube. Side note the smell of this had me wanting to eat the clay)
• IPA wipe
• Cut 3x passes per area(Chemical Guys white pad, Meguiars ultimate compound)
• Polish 3x passes per area (Chemical Guys orange pad, Meguiars ultimate polish)
• Wax (Turtle Wax hybrid solutions ceramic spray)

 

I AM AN IDIOT! While typing this out I realised I got the sodding pads the wrong way round 🤦‍♂️

 

Sadly no comprehensive set of before and after pics but I have a couple showing the swirls and final result. As you can see, most of the swirls are still present although the finish still has plenty more "pop". What can I do better next time?

 

Thoughts so far:

• Heavier compound (maybe pad too, getting them the right way round would probably help lol)
• More or slower passes
• Better prep
• Accept that the scratches are deeper than I thought and move on

 

Before

 

After

 

 

Results

 

[Stutopia]

Gorgeous colour BTW.

 

Next time I would suggest not to worry about the whole car, just find a test section with some of the bad swirls and work away at just that section with different, pad, polish, arm pressure and arm speed combinations. See what it takes to make just a small section 90% defect free, under a little light. This might take quite some time but if you find the right combination, then you can do the rest of the car one panel at a time, without time pressure or feeling you have to finish it up all in one session.

 

If you wanted to go more aggressive, you could always step up to a microfibre pad and see what that does.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

Ps fairy liquid isn't something I'd ever use. It has slight abrasives in it.

[autorune]

10 hours ago, Stutopia said:

Gorgeous colour BTW.

 

Next time I would suggest not to worry about the whole car, just find a test section with some of the bad swirls and work away at just that section with different, pad, polish, arm pressure and arm speed combinations. See what it takes to make just a small section 90% defect free, under a little light. This might take quite some time but if you find the right combination, then you can do the rest of the car one panel at a time, without time pressure or feeling you have to finish it up all in one session.

 

If you wanted to go more aggressive, you could always step up to a microfibre pad and see what that does.

Good call, I was worried that I'd have to re-wash and clay splitting across multiple days though as I park on the roadside rather than in a garage. Definitely worth perfecting one panel first though before doing the rest of the car especially given its all equally "bad". Will keep that in mind next time I attempt it.

 

 

3 hours ago, The Bounty Bar Kid said:

Ps fairy liquid isn't something I'd ever use. It has slight abrasives in it.

Thanks for that, I'd heard its fine but will bear this in mind. Will probably have some decent foam for the next run 👍

[Stutopia]

25 minutes ago, autorune said:

Good call, I was worried that I'd have to re-wash and clay splitting across multiple days though as I park on the roadside rather than in a garage. Definitely worth perfecting one panel first though before doing the rest of the car especially given its all equally "bad". Will keep that in mind next time I attempt it.

 

 

I've always had to detail outside and for the longest time I had the mindset of you need to do everything all in one day, but it's so much easier to breakdown the car into small sections. You can nearly always get a full car wash in first, then if you have time, clay and polish a panel and then protect it. If you have more time, do two. It's not like the first panel you do will end up being dramatically more swirled than the last one, once you've done a few washes.

[ilogikal1]

12 hours ago, autorune said:

Steps as follow:

• Rinse 
• Foam (CarPlan Demon Foam - running low so chucked in some Fairy. Am I mad for doing that?!)
• Agitate (Generic microfiber mitt, two buckets one for fresh water another for rinsing the mitt)
• Rinse
• Clay (Mothers clay w/ quick detailer as lube. Side note the smell of this had me wanting to eat the clay)
• IPA wipe
• Cut 3x passes per area(Chemical Guys white pad, Meguiars ultimate compound)
• Polish 3x passes per area (Chemical Guys orange pad, Meguiars ultimate polish)
• Wax (Turtle Wax hybrid solutions ceramic spray)

 

What can I do better next time?

 

Okay, first up, don't use Fairy on paintwork. Granted, the car won't spontaneously fall apart, but it's not designed for cars (or paintwork, etc.). If you need to top up foam with anything (because you're running low) then use car shampoo. (Not aimed at the OP, but more generally; if you're topping up becuase the foam is rubbish, just buy better foam...). Despite what some consipracy theorists would try to convince you of, Fairy is no good for cleaning cars under any circumstances.

 

Next up, wash technique:

Foam on a dry car - rinsing first does nothing except encourage the foam to run off quicker, reducing the contact time and therefore efficiency. Whilst you do want the foam to run off (take note Magifoam!) you need the balance between working time and run off, all snow foams that are designed to work (rather than just look pretty - take note Magifoam!!) are designed to work on initially dry panels.

You might have seen this coming, but use a good snow foam instead. And a proper foam lance if you're not already. If you don't want to/can't use a proper foam lance, switch to a Citrus Pre-Wash instead which will be infinitely better than using a snow foam badly.

Rinse thoroughly & methodically after the foam/citrus pre-wash and before washing.

Wash with the 2 bucket method you've used as usual & then rinse again.

 

As Stu has already mentioned, from this point you can do one/two panels at a time. If you run out of time, re-wash before starting again another day (whether you pre-wash & wash will be determined by how dirty the car is when you start again, but I would always recommend a contact wash of any panels you'll be working on as a bare minimum, regardless of how clean the surface looks, before claying).

 

Clay, as you have done.

Rinse the panel again.

Polish - always start with the lowest cut and only work up (in stages, i.e. polish OR pad, never both together) until you're getting the cut you need. If you're using a DA machine polisher, I'd suggest 6 slow passes to properly work the polish. Adjust accordingly if using a rotary. Work on a small section on one panel (about one 6th of the bonet is a fair area, for example) to start with.

When you feel you've worked the polish enough, use the IPA wipe to remove any polish residue and inspect the area - if you need to, step up either the pad or the polish to get more cut, work the polish, IPA wipe and re-inspect. Repeat as needed.

Once you're comfortable with the results, move onto the next section using the pad/polish combo that you're most comfortable with.

 

The IPA wipe should be used for removing polish residue to inspect the actual results of the polishing and/or before waxing. There's no benefit/purpose to IPA before polishing.

 

Once you're happy with the polishing, then apply wax as usual.

 

In terms of what you've acheived, whilst you've not tackled everything there is some correction evident. I'd suggest taking it slow with the passes and working the polish for longer over each area. It looks more like you've rushed and just not acheived the correction you were after rather than done anything fundamentally wrong, so hopefully the steps above will help you address that and improve the results you're getting. Don't get too disheartened, just take a bit more time.

 

1 hour ago, autorune said:

Good call, I was worried that I'd have to re-wash and clay splitting across multiple days though as I park on the roadside rather than in a garage. Definitely worth perfecting one panel first though before doing the rest of the car especially given its all equally "bad". Will keep that in mind next time I attempt it.

 

As above, split the claying across multiple days as well, just clay a panel before you polish it. If you're just picking up the following morning where you left off before, a quick wipe over with a soapy mitt will suffice in terms of re-washing (you could even foam the area and wipe over with a mitt before rinsing if that's easier). Whilst not necessarily essential if you're polishing anyway, I would advise it to remove any micro-particles especially when parked on/near an active road even if it still looksclean, just to minimise the risk of grinding fine dirt into the paint when claying and/or polishing.

 

12 hours ago, Stutopia said:

If you wanted to go more aggressive, you could always step up to a microfibre pad and see what that does.

 

I wouldn't recommend microfibre pads for soft Nissan paint (hard German paint perhaps though), it's too abbrassive and you're more likley to cause (potentially irrepairable) damage than correction to be honest. On soft Nissan paint you shouldn't ever need to go higher than medium cut polish on a medium cut pad, especially for swirls. If you're sturggling to correct swirls on medium/medium combo, you probably need to look at your technique over stepping up further and even then I'd always suggest an alternative polish to extend the working time over going more aggressive at that stage.

Extra care should always be taken for RDS anyway, but it's important to know how much paint you're working with before tackling those.

[autorune]

1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said:

 

Okay, first up, don't use Fairy on paintwork. Granted, the car won't spontaneously fall apart, but it's not designed for cars (or paintwork, etc.). If you need to top up foam with anything (because you're running low) then use car shampoo. (Not aimed at the OP, but more generally; if you're topping up becuase the foam is rubbish, just buy better foam...). Despite what some consipracy theorists would try to convince you of, Fairy is no good for cleaning cars under any circumstances.

 

Next up, wash technique:

Foam on a dry car - rinsing first does nothing except encourage the foam to run off quicker, reducing the contact time and therefore efficiency. Whilst you do want the foam to run off (take note Magifoam!) you need the balance between working time and run off, all snow foams that are designed to work (rather than just look pretty - take note Magifoam!!) are designed to work on initially dry panels.

You might have seen this coming, but use a good snow foam instead. And a proper foam lance if you're not already. If you don't want to/can't use a proper foam lance, switch to a Citrus Pre-Wash instead which will be infinitely better than using a snow foam badly.

Rinse thoroughly & methodically after the foam/citrus pre-wash and before washing.

Wash with the 2 bucket method you've used as usual & then rinse again.

 

As Stu has already mentioned, from this point you can do one/two panels at a time. If you run out of time, re-wash before starting again another day (whether you pre-wash & wash will be determined by how dirty the car is when you start again, but I would always recommend a contact wash of any panels you'll be working on as a bare minimum, regardless of how clean the surface looks, before claying).

 

Clay, as you have done.

Rinse the panel again.

Polish - always start with the lowest cut and only work up (in stages, i.e. polish OR pad, never both together) until you're getting the cut you need. If you're using a DA machine polisher, I'd suggest 6 slow passes to properly work the polish. Adjust accordingly if using a rotary. Work on a small section on one panel (about one 6th of the bonet is a fair area, for example) to start with.

When you feel you've worked the polish enough, use the IPA wipe to remove any polish residue and inspect the area - if you need to, step up either the pad or the polish to get more cut, work the polish, IPA wipe and re-inspect. Repeat as needed.

Once you're comfortable with the results, move onto the next section using the pad/polish combo that you're most comfortable with.

 

The IPA wipe should be used for removing polish residue to inspect the actual results of the polishing and/or before waxing. There's no benefit/purpose to IPA before polishing.

 

Once you're happy with the polishing, then apply wax as usual.

 

In terms of what you've acheived, whilst you've not tackled everything there is some correction evident. I'd suggest taking it slow with the passes and working the polish for longer over each area. It looks more like you've rushed and just not acheived the correction you were after rather than done anything fundamentally wrong, so hopefully the steps above will help you address that and improve the results you're getting. Don't get too disheartened, just take a bit more time.

 

 

As above, split the claying across multiple days as well, just clay a panel before you polish it. If you're just picking up the following morning where you left off before, a quick wipe over with a soapy mitt will suffice in terms of re-washing (you could even foam the area and wipe over with a mitt before rinsing if that's easier). Whilst not necessarily essential if you're polishing anyway, I would advise it to remove any micro-particles especially when parked on/near an active road even if it still looksclean, just to minimise the risk of grinding fine dirt into the paint when claying and/or polishing.

 

 

I wouldn't recommend microfibre pads for soft Nissan paint (hard German paint perhaps though), it's too abbrassive and you're more likley to cause (potentially irrepairable) damage than correction to be honest. On soft Nissan paint you shouldn't ever need to go higher than medium cut polish on a medium cut pad, especially for swirls. If you're sturggling to correct swirls on medium/medium combo, you probably need to look at your technique over stepping up further and even then I'd always suggest an alternative polish to extend the working time over going more aggressive at that stage.

Extra care should always be taken for RDS anyway, but it's important to know how much paint you're working with before tackling those.

Really sound advice, thanks. Good spot on the IPA wipe, I thought it was to remove the clay lube/residue and any other non-solid contaminants. Jees though, I might have just been using too much but it took half a bottle lol.

 

Sounds like the size of my sections was right maybe overboard as I think I actually split it into 9 but yeah definitely doing it a bit quick given I got through it in less than 4h.

 

Something I didn't mention though is some of the panels might actually be worse off as my first couple I had white bits flying off and "solid" compound being left behind on the panel - I figured this was from using too much product though and proceeded with that in mind and it cleared up after rinsing the pad and using less.

 

I think you've got it in one though - more and slower passes with the orange pad rather than white will probably see a much better result. I'm borrowing my friend's DA at the mo so will probably go for it again soon, dedicate a full day (or two) and baseline this method. Will probably grab a couple more towels and some good foam. On that note, I am using a foam lance on the pressure washer albeit definitely not the best around - came with the B&M unit I'm using although seems good enough for someone who's not going to be using it for anything beyond their own car

[ilogikal1]

2 hours ago, autorune said:

Really sound advice, thanks. Good spot on the IPA wipe, I thought it was to remove the clay lube/residue and any other non-solid contaminants. Jees though, I might have just been using too much but it took half a bottle lol.

 

Yep, that's quite a lot, depending on what you're using. Assuming you're pre-mixed stuff it should only take 1-2 sprays per panel (although it's one of those things you find yourself getting more efficient with the more you use it).

For clay residue, either a thorough rinse or a wipe over with QD should remove everything you need to before polishing.

 

2 hours ago, autorune said:

Something I didn't mention though is some of the panels might actually be worse off as my first couple I had white bits flying off and "solid" compound being left behind on the panel - I figured this was from using too much product though and proceeded with that in mind and it cleared up after rinsing the pad and using less.

 

If the white bits flying off were still wet and at the beginning of the passes, then definitely too much product on the pad and what you're experiencing is sling. It's best to prime a fresh pad (assuming a 5inch pad*; 2-3 pea sized spots of product on the pad and spread it around the face of the pad with your finger until it won't spread any more - optional, but often worth doing is to spritz the face of the pad with a QD first. Not too much, one spritz across the pad is plenty, and it just helps to lubricate the pad on the initial pass); but once it's got some product on already, you don't need to add any more than you're using. 2 pea sized drops per section is plenty - again my technique is to spread some polish across the panel/section you're about to work on by dabbing the pad on the panel before switching it on, that way you end up with less product on the pad to begin with but pick up product as you move over the panel. You may find something else works for you though.

*If you're using different sized pads, adjust quantities accoridngly.

 

The other thing that causes sling is not having the pad flat on the panel when the machine in on - the Z is a curvy car so smaller spot pads are useful, especially on the quarter panels, pillars and bumpers. There's no secret tip for this though, it's just a case of concentrating and being aware of the angle of the pad and surface.

 

The solid compound left behind is textbook not working the product enough. "Enough" is determined by what you're using, but in all cases you want to keep working it until it's clear and you almost can't see it anymore - most polishes will start to "cure" (as such) like a wax after it's worked, the aim is to get it as thin as you dare really (and that might mean more passes or working over a larger section - with more experience you'll find what works best for you though so keep at it).

 

2 hours ago, autorune said:

Will probably grab a couple more towels and some good foam. On that note, I am using a foam lance on the pressure washer albeit definitely not the best around - came with the B&M unit I'm using although seems good enough for someone who's not going to be using it for anything beyond their own car

 

You can never have enough microfibres when polishing. No matter how many I have, I always need at least 3 more. Always!

 

The foam bottle that comes with pressure washers isn't a proper foam lance so if you don't want to shell out for a lance then switch to a citrus pre-wash - spray on, leave to work for a few minutes, rinse off with the pressure washer. You'll never get good performance out of a snow foam without a proper lance (or at least a foamer pressure sprayer). Although I should note that there are much cheaper versions available than the one I linked to before (e.g.). Just make sure to get the right fitting for your pressure washer if you do get one.

The reason the bottle that comes with the machine isn't any use for foam is because it doesn't incorporate the innards of a proper foam lance (which you can see here), so instead of having foam hit the panel, you just get soapy water which foams slightly on impact instead. As I say, if you want to use snow foam then invest in a proper foam lance, otherwise spending money of snow foam will be a waste of money really.

 

Give it another go and let us know how you get on. There's plenty of good detailers (pro and amateur) on here that are happy to share advice - most are less verbose and demanding than me too!

Edited August 11, 2021 by ilogikal1

[autorune]

1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said:

 

Yep, that's quite a lot, depending on what you're using. Assuming you're pre-mixed stuff it should only take 1-2 sprays per panel (although it's one of those things you find yourself getting more efficient with the more you use it).

For clay residue, either a thorough rinse or a wipe over with QD should remove everything you need to before polishing.

 

 

If the white bits flying off were still wet and at the beginning of the passes, then definitely too much product on the pad and what you're experiencing is sling. It's best to prime a fresh pad (assuming a 5inch pad*; 2-3 pea sized spots of product on the pad and spread it around the face of the pad with your finger until it won't spread any more - optional, but often worth doing is to spritz the face of the pad with a QD first. Not too much, one spritz across the pad is plenty, and it just helps to lubricate the pad on the initial pass); but once it's got some product on already, you don't need to add any more than you're using. 2 pea sized drops per section is plenty - again my technique is to spread some polish across the panel/section you're about to work on by dabbing the pad on the panel before switching it on, that way you end up with less product on the pad to begin with but pick up product as you move over the panel. You may find something else works for you though.

*If you're using different sized pads, adjust quantities accoridngly.

 

The other thing that causes sling is not having the pad flat on the panel when the machine in on - the Z is a curvy car so smaller spot pads are useful, especially on the quarter panels, pillars and bumpers. There's no secret tip for this though, it's just a case of concentrating and being aware of the angle of the pad and surface.

 

The solid compound left behind is textbook not working the product enough. "Enough" is determined by what you're using, but in all cases you want to keep working it until it's clear and you almost can't see it anymore - most polishes will start to "cure" (as such) like a wax after it's worked, the aim is to get it as thin as you dare really (and that might mean more passes or working over a larger section - with more experience you'll find what works best for you though so keep at it).

 

 

You can never have enough microfibres when polishing. No matter how many I have, I always need at least 3 more. Always!

 

The foam bottle that comes with pressure washers isn't a proper foam lance so if you don't want to shell out for a lance then switch to a citrus pre-wash - spray on, leave to work for a few minutes, rinse off with the pressure washer. You'll never get good performance out of a snow foam without a proper lance (or at least a foamer pressure sprayer). Although I should note that there are much cheaper versions available than the one I linked to before (e.g.). Just make sure to get the right fitting for your pressure washer if you do get one.

The reason the bottle that comes with the machine isn't any use for foam is because it doesn't incorporate the innards of a proper foam lance (which you can see here), so instead of having foam hit the panel, you just get soapy water which foams slightly on impact instead. As I say, if you want to use snow foam then invest in a proper foam lance, otherwise spending money of snow foam will be a waste of money really.

 

Give it another go and let us know how you get on. There's plenty of good detailers (pro and amateur) on here that are happy to share advice - most are less verbose and demanding than me too!

Thanks. Is the QD necessary though if I'm already using QD as clay lube? And I meant the pad was throwing semi-solid like the excess compound is drying up at the edges of the pad, getting rolled up and thrown off. Still getting used to following the curves so that probably contributes!

 

Cheers for the tip about the lance btw. Will see if my friend minds lending his, otherwise will go with a prewash.

 

[ilogikal1]

The QD is only really necessary for any stubborn residue, to save applying too much pressure with a cloth; not essential though.

 

That sounds more like too much product clogging the pad and getting thrown off. As you've found, a little lighter on the polish and you should be fine with that though.

[Willsy1980]

:Amateur Detailer: 

One thing I will add, I always use a citrus or TFR pre wash before using foam. Auto finesse do both a citrus and TFR (Dynamite) in 5L bottles that are quite cheap Pre wash. Dilute that into a 5L pressurised garden sprayer (Screwfix do a good one for about £10) Pump Sprayer I pop a mist over the whole car then hit it with the foam, just gives it a bit more bite on the stubborn dirt. The foam does the rest. 

As for a foam gun, I have this one Foam gun Cheap but gives a decent thick foam. That one is for Karcher washers, but the fitting can be changed easy enough for other brands 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Willsy1980