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veeg33

Help please - Weird at warm up and high vibration at idle

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Since lockdown begins earlier this year, I've been working from home and only use my zed once/twice every 2 weeks. The last time I drove it was a week ago and everything is normal. Started it up this morning,all seems normal. Let it warm up while I wait for my daughter to get ready, got out the car and notice weird exhaust sound/note when it is warming up, seems to be a tiny bit louder and popping constantly (not the best technical term and a bit difficult to explain) Normal will be like mmmmmmmmmm (constantly but no audible pops, now is more like constantly bop bop bop bop bop. When I got back into the car, the steering wheel has high vibration and I can feel it from the footwell as well. No warning lights at all. Drove it off my drive and car doesn't seems to drive well.

 

Because of the vibrations I'm getting, I suspect one or more cylinder is not firing hence causing the imbalance. Faulty coil pack(s)? But I'm not getting any error code. Can I just swap one or recommended to swap all? Seems easy enough to get them out but is this a sign others might go too?

 

Thinking about it more, maybe spark plugs? Last time it was changed at 63309 miles, currently at 89940 - Done around 26k miles

 

Any idea what to check will be much appreciated before I start to take things apart and order replacement parts.

Edited by veeg33

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Can always do a video upload to YouTube then post here, is it constantly vibrating? Have you got a De engine? Has the cam cover leaked oil into the cylinder tube? Can you remember what plugs you put in them? iridium/ platinum have a life of 30-40k usually so might not be that, check the intake pipe behind the maf  for any leaks. If you are certain it’s a coil/plug whilst the engines running pull off the plugs one by one and see if the engine tone changes if it stalls or gets worse obviously that cylinder is fine, if nothing changes then you’re right probably pack or plug. Hope this helps 

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8 minutes ago, Azurez33 said:

Can always do a video upload to YouTube then post here, is it constantly vibrating? Have you got a De engine? Has the cam cover leaked oil into the cylinder tube? Can you remember what plugs you put in them? iridium/ platinum have a life of 30-40k usually so might not be that, check the intake pipe behind the maf  for any leaks. If you are certain it’s a coil/plug whilst the engines running pull off the plugs one by one and see if the engine tone changes if it stalls or gets worse obviously that cylinder is fine, if nothing changes then you’re right probably pack or plug. Hope this helps 

Thanks mate. It's a DE. Plugs were swapped before I purchased it. Only says spark plugs on the service invoice hence no idea but will remove them to see what they are this weekends. Spoken to a local mechanic on phone when I book my mrs's car in for annual service, he don't think it will be coil packs since I'm not getting any warning light. Will try/rest what you mentioned above over the weekend to diagnose.

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Sometimes misfires don’t cause an eml trust me aha yeah whip the plugs out and have a look, my De had an oil leak from the cam cover on the passenger side at the front causing oil to sit in the tube with the plug either way can’t be good for it, at the same time dual mass flywheels cause a hell of a lot of vibration when they’re on their way out, does the vibration keep going a short while after ignition is off? 

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42 minutes ago, Azurez33 said:

Sometimes misfires don’t cause an eml trust me aha yeah whip the plugs out and have a look, my De had an oil leak from the cam cover on the passenger side at the front causing oil to sit in the tube with the plug either way can’t be good for it, at the same time dual mass flywheels cause a hell of a lot of vibration when they’re on their way out, does the vibration keep going a short while after ignition is off? 

Standard clutch and flywheel replaced around 5k miles ago. Vibration higher when I touch the throttle to rev up the engine. Started the zed again, heavy smells of petrol from the exhaust. I will upload video in next 2-3mins.

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The easiest way to determine if its a misfire is to while running, unplug each coilpack one at a time. If you hear a noticeable change in engine sound and running, thats good. If you unplug one and nothing happens, thats your suspect cylinder. 

 

I would advise plugs, and coilpacks in that order. As azurez33 says you can have a misfire without throwing an engine light, as I did. I replaced plugs and packs and it never ran better 

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Can’t really hear too much through the video sorry, have you driven it much after the clutch has been replaced? We’ve been told horror stories of garages replacing dual mass with single mass and charging for a single,  I can always smell petrol when I start mine :lol: does the vibration ever change in frequency or pitch? 

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1 hour ago, Azurez33 said:

Can’t really hear too much through the video sorry, have you driven it much after the clutch has been replaced? We’ve been told horror stories of garages replacing dual mass with single mass and charging for a single,  I can always smell petrol when I start mine :lol: does the vibration ever change in frequency or pitch? 

Driven about 7k to 8k with it. Vibration seems to change with engine speed, higher rpm higher vibration I wasn't dare to put my foot on the throttle, incase I might damage something. Mine doesn't normally smell so rich or petrol. Standard cat with Invidia Gemini exhaust.

Edited by veeg33

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Small update - started the zed up to try to get a better video. Car started absolutely fine and normal. Managed to warm up until engine speed dropped to below 1k rpm, all good. Did a quick around the block, no problem. When I reach home, reverse to my drive. I noticed engine warning light, P0300. Turn engine off, then on again. The same idle issue came back. I guess I need to unplug each coil to identify which one to replace or could it be the MAF?

Edited by veeg33

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Thats a misfire code. I'd recommend as I've said above, engine running go round unplugging each coilpack one at a time. 

 

If you hear a noticeable drop in engine running, its good. If you don't hear anything, thats your suspect. You can then try a known working one if someone is local, or go straight in with plugs. 

 

Plugs, coilpacks and further diagnostics in that order 

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Nice weather today hence decided to check what's causing the issue.

 

Remove MAF sensor, cleaned with contact cleaner, reassemble - OK at start up but start to misfire again after 5 mins. **edit - Someone on google search said best to leave it to dry for 20-30mins (which i didn't follow as i thought contact cleaner fluid from the spray usually dry up quick)

Remove engine cover and strut bar - Start up and disconnect one coil connector at a time. All of them made a change of engine tone.

Did a ECU reset and start up again...… No more engine light and car is idling normal again. Went for a quick 2 miles drive, all normal and no engine light.

 

Reason for cleaning MAF - Saw on YouTube, a video of cleaning MAF and one of the reason he said - If you have aftermarket filter that uses oil, oil can contaminate the MAF hence regular cleaning is good.

 

Yes, I have JWT popcharger hence my conclusion is the dirty MAF sensor. Will report back if issue comes again then I'm back to the drawing board.

Edited by veeg33
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Fingers crossed the ecu reset has sorted the matter as it does seem intermittent

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10 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

Fingers crossed the ecu reset has sorted the matter as it does seem intermittent

yep, hopefully :thumbs:

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How's your car pal a week later?

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On 20/11/2020 at 21:24, davey_83 said:

How's your car pal a week later?

Was ok until Friday when I was doing nursery run =(. Started up normal, drives normal, started to misfire when I stopped at a traffic light about 3milea away from home. ECU reset at daughter's nursery, no luck. Drove slowly back to house, 2 miles in the zed is alive again. Cleaned the MAF again yesterday and also cleaned and oiled my popcharger at the same time. Assembled everything back on, started up normal, 2mins in the misfiring starts again. Maybe wiring or loose connection somewhere? I wanted to get a new MAF to try but no stock within my area (GSF or ECP). Hoping someone or @ZMANALEX can give some advice what else to check as I have MOT booked next week Tuesday. Surely the misfiring will fail MOT due to emission?

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You might be okay as we’ve had some cars pass with a minor misfire, If it’s not plugs/ coils, and you’re partially sure with the maf, did you check any of the tubes for oil? And it still could be the maf/IAT, aswell could be an intake leak behind the maf, could be an injector so might be worth putting a fuel/ injector cleaner through or you could be looking at valves being worn some of the old Vauxhall’s suffer from sticky valves because they’re Shyte, a bottle of redex did solve this. ( let it be said I’m not a massive fan of all these bottles of crap that you’ll find in Halfords obviously some of them very loosely “work” but if you’re desperate can be worth a try) I prefer to try and solve stuff methodically but it’s hard without being there haha. worst case scenario timing issue maybe? but if it was timing issue I’d imagine there would be a fault in the ECM for intake or exhaust timing so shouldn’t be that. You got sports cats on it or oems? 

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After some advise from Alex aka ZmanAlex, I've managed to get hold of a spare MAF from an ex-colleague that lives 15mins away from me. His zed is in pieces now (engine rebuild) and far from being complete hence he has kindly borrowed his MAF sensor.

 

Start up with current MAF sensor, misfiring. Switch off, swap to another MAF sensor, no more misfiring. Switch off, replace with old MAF sensor, misfiring. Swap again to another MAF sensor, no misfiring. I think this is now pretty conclusive that my MAF sensor is playing up.

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Well then that’s good to hear, probably a case of the oil from the intake building up 

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4 hours ago, Azurez33 said:

Well then that’s good to hear, probably a case of the oil from the intake building up 

Not so great after all. Back to square one. Took it out for a drive and 5 mins into the drive, misfiring again. Makes me think it could be wiring issue? but that doesn't explain why swapping the MAF sensor seems to fixed that issue. Or having a think about it, is my electric system sending high voltage/amp to the MAF when i drive hence it has short my MAF sensor? If that's the case what's next? But this doesn't explain why the misfiring suddenly goes away whilst waiting at the traffic lights. Going to chuck in a bottle of Redex since i have one in the garage.

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MOT tomorrow, so I'll leave it to the mechanic to diagnose the issue. My money is on injectors at the moment.

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Ok, I'm going to ask again, have you checked the coilpacks and spark plugs? I only ask as you've not mentioned them once :bang:

 

I honestly think you've been thrown way off the scent by the MAF sensor, in fact id be willing the lay money its either the coilpacks or plugs. 

 

Your symptoms are indicative of this, and identical to the issues I suffered. I would have an intermittent misfire that would come out of nowhere under normal driving or giving it WOT and it was like hitting a brick wall. And then it would clear just as quickly. It even left me stranded at the road side one day for 10 minutes until it cleared and this was the final straw for me. 

 

I proved this by letting it run until it started misfiring, at which point I unplugged each coilpack one at a time. I soon found the culprit and replaced all packs and plugs and I can't stress this enough, it never ran so well before. 

 

This probably sounds like a dig post and its honestly not meant like that, just don't want you throwing money at injectors when I'd highly doubt its those and basic checks on the coilpacks could save you alot of money

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On 23/11/2020 at 20:08, Olly350z said:

Ok, I'm going to ask again, have you checked the coilpacks and spark plugs? I only ask as you've not mentioned them once :bang:

 

I honestly think you've been thrown way off the scent by the MAF sensor, in fact id be willing the lay money its either the coilpacks or plugs. 

 

Your symptoms are indicative of this, and identical to the issues I suffered. I would have an intermittent misfire that would come out of nowhere under normal driving or giving it WOT and it was like hitting a brick wall. And then it would clear just as quickly. It even left me stranded at the road side one day for 10 minutes until it cleared and this was the final straw for me. 

 

I proved this by letting it run until it started misfiring, at which point I unplugged each coilpack one at a time. I soon found the culprit and replaced all packs and plugs and I can't stress this enough, it never ran so well before. 

 

This probably sounds like a dig post and its honestly not meant like that, just don't want you throwing money at injectors when I'd highly doubt its those and basic checks on the coilpacks could save you alot of money

I checked the coil packs by disconnecting one at a time, but thinking about it now, it might not be misfiring when i checked them hence I could not identify which cylinder is playing up as each one I disconnect made a change in engine noise. Car passed MOT today, with lots of luck for Zed's god, the misfire went away when it was on for emission test. Mechanic checked everything he could at that time and found nothing. Guess what, I started to misfire when I drove off..........lucky it's lockdown now meaning I can do without my zed for now. I will do the coil pack/ plugs check again this weekend and hopefully I can find the offending bugger! Not going to buy any new injectors until I'm sure that's the issue. Will checked everything step by step, coils, plugs and injectors. Hopefully I don't have to go to injectors as it will more screws to remove to get to it.

 

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. 

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