Twin Turbo or Single??

[sl114]

Easier still is to buy Mark's [urbanmyth] already converted immaculate 350Z TT APS. He posts on here. Maybe a deal can be done between you.

 

Allan

 

I thought this car got sold weeks ago????? hmmmm.....

 

You're getting worse than Louis - every car that comes up you are interested in!

 

At least I'll put my money where my mouth is

So do i...

 

 

 

...when i have the money

[Zedrush]

The only thing I can see with the Greddy kit is that it has no ball bearing so may have a little lag to begin with then it wil set off, where as PE is a newer version with less lag, but for the price of this kit its bloody good

[ir_fuel]

Easier still is to buy Mark's [urbanmyth] already converted immaculate 350Z TT APS. He posts on here. Maybe a deal can be done between you.

 

Allan

 

I thought this car got sold weeks ago????? hmmmm.....

 

You're getting worse than Louis - every car that comes up you are interested in!

 

At least I'll put my money where my mouth is

 

for £250 or £450?

[Sarnie]

Easier still is to buy Mark's [urbanmyth] already converted immaculate 350Z TT APS. He posts on here. Maybe a deal can be done between you.

 

Allan

 

I thought this car got sold weeks ago????? hmmmm.....

 

You're getting worse than Louis - every car that comes up you are interested in!

 

At least I'll put my money where my mouth is

 

for £250 or £450?

 

Depends who's paying

[Tere]

Supercharger dont have dump valve sound

Must have missed this one... Dump valve (AKA BOV) on a supercharged Z -- one loud BOV, and this was just running around the block -- it's even louder under heavy acceleration when dumping boost at high rpms.

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9326

[Tere]

The UTEC EMS is well capable of handling the PE-TT. Sure you can pick up a UTEC with MAP sensor and map switch for around £700. RJN are familiar with UTEC and should be able to tune for you in 5-6 hours. can't see the cost being more than £1700 all in. I assume for the envy price, they install the TURBO kit, which then means you need to get the car to RJN for the tune on a low-loader or something

GReddy e-Manage is also a piggyback option. I use a TechnoSquare custom ECM flash (designed for my modifications, but slightly on the rich side), then I fine tune it with e-Manage. I like e-Manage because I can have a million maps stored on my laptop and upload a new map in less than two minutes. I have a dedicated laptop that travels with me (I keep it in the '03 350) and is also good for data logging of both the ECM and e-Manage simultaneously. You can also run e-Manage real-time and it shows you exactly where you're at on each map -- in other words you can fine tune on-the-fly. The advantage of so many maps is that you can have a map for every occasion and every condition (i.e., varying temperatures and pressure conditions).

[Tere]

Carbon fiber bonnet is not lighter than OEM one. (I don't know anymore who on this forum had one)

Actually it is a couple pounds lighter. I haven't weighed them but I have picked both up, and there is a slight difference.

[martinmac]

But you are a little more used to the in flight thing Tere, at my age I have enough trouble changing the CD when driving.

 

Having said that this thread is very interesting and I follow its progression with real interest

[Tere]

Actually, I have my oldest son drive while I log and tune. He keeps one eye on the road and the other on the air/fuel and he calls out the A/F so I can richen or lean at the point on the map (it's highlighted). Once we get key points set then it's just a matter of interpolating between points which e-Manage does automatically. We name the map with temp and pressure so it's easy to identify. It doesn't take too long to build a complete map, but it's definitely a two person operation.

[Guest prescience]

Actually, I have my oldest son drive while I log and tune. He keeps one eye on the road and the other on the air/fuel and he calls out the A/F so I can richen or lean at the point on the map (it's highlighted). Once we get key points set then it's just a matter of interpolating between points which e-Manage does automatically. We name the map with temp and pressure so it's easy to identify. It doesn't take too long to build a complete map, but it's definitely a two person operation.

I think jay (zedrush) needs to pay your air fare to the UK to get him sorted with GReddy

 

 

[heck, that's not a bad plan]

[Zedrush]

Actually, I have my oldest son drive while I log and tune. He keeps one eye on the road and the other on the air/fuel and he calls out the A/F so I can richen or lean at the point on the map (it's highlighted). Once we get key points set then it's just a matter of interpolating between points which e-Manage does automatically. We name the map with temp and pressure so it's easy to identify. It doesn't take too long to build a complete map, but it's definitely a two person operation.

I think jay (zedrush) needs to pay your air fare to the UK to get him sorted with GReddy

 

 

[heck, that's not a bad plan]

 

If Tere was up fpr it Id pay her and her husband to come over to help me install and map my car. Would be worth every penny

[martinmac]

Sure they wouldnt mind if she borrowed a work vehicle for a while

[Zedrush]

Actually, I have my oldest son drive while I log and tune. He keeps one eye on the road and the other on the air/fuel and he calls out the A/F so I can richen or lean at the point on the map (it's highlighted). Once we get key points set then it's just a matter of interpolating between points which e-Manage does automatically. We name the map with temp and pressure so it's easy to identify. It doesn't take too long to build a complete map, but it's definitely a two person operation.

 

so if you were to map nos, your son would keep an eye on the nitrous and fuel ratio to make sure it wasnt running to lean or too rich right? How many different maps do you have named on the system? Would the air to fuel ratio differ depending on conditions?

[Tere]

Temperature is a huge difference. Cold air is much denser than hot air and requires more fuel; conversely when it's 95 degrees (F) you require less fuel, so I have my average seasonal temp maps. Local pressure variations have a lesser effect; low pressure, less fuel, and high pressure more. If you change locations, say go to Denver, Colorado where you're at a higher altitude, less fuel is required because the air is less dense. Humidity is also a factor: more humid is denser, so more fuel, etc. Hey, UK in the winter near the coast is more HP! Cold and wet!

 

Where the million maps come into the picture is racing, where you want everything optimized. You may even switch maps during one day. In the morning when it's cooler, use one map, and then switch to another in the afternoon, particularly if it's a 30-40 degree (or more) variation. The ECM provides intake air temperature readings which are really more significant with forced induction, because intercooler efficiency seems to decline a bit at higher ambient air temperatures. On those 95 degree days (hotter still out on the asphalt), you can be running an intake air temperature at 150-200 degrees at 14-15 pounds of boost on the track. You can see that your engine and fluid cooling systems become pretty important to prevent heat soaking the engine.

 

Nowadays in racing they can remotely monitor (and log) all performance parameters in the pits and it's even possible to tweak the maps real-time while the driver is on the track. Really some cool high-tech stuff.

 

Once you get a few key maps built, you can build and save other maps through interpolation without even being hooked up to e-Manage. I don't know how many maps I have built (I never counted), but it's a bunch. Mostly I just use my average seasonal maps -- daily driving maps.

 

I'm not sure how you would map NOS since it depends where you push the button. Forced induction is much more predictable for mapping.

 

One of these days I'm going to have to build an in-car PC. I've already designed it (about 4 years ago), I just haven't built it.

[Tere]

Oh, I forgot to add another variable. Open and closed loop engine operation. In closed loop, the ECM is constantly toying with air/fuel through short-term and then long-term fuel trim. Tuning for closed loop is trying to get short and long term fuel trim to be as close as possible, and both being as close to zero as possible (perfect map with no ECM adjustment needed--in reality an impossible "holy grail'). Mapping closed loop can get a bit testy since the ECM plays with everything in your map. This mapping takes a lot of patience because you have to wait for the ECM to settle down after every map change -- the ECM tends to hunt a bit for air/fuel before finally settling.

 

Open loop (basically pedal to the metal) is much more straightforward since the ECM runs purely off the map and doesn't try to play with it. This is the mapping that most tuners do -- the infamous hours of dyno runs at WOT for peak HP bragging rights. Few folks mess with closed loop tuning because it's so time consuming. If you do it right, closed loop tuning should be done before open loop.

 

You can also data log your short and long-term fuel trim along with throttle position (the clue for open or closed loop) directly from the ECM. GReddy e-Manage also maps based on throttle position and RPM. I have real time gauges set up on my tuning laptop for RPM, intake air temp, throttle position, and short-term fuel trim for banks 1 and 2. Then we have timing and mass air flow charts. With forced induction you have to trick the ECM by clamping max voltage on the MAF (done with e-Manage).

[Tere]

I have three additional gauges (mine are all A-pillar mounted) that I consider essential with forced induction.

 

Wideband O2 -- air/fuel ratio

Vacuum/Boost

Fuel Pressure -- varies with vacuum/boost and used for making pressure regulator adjustments

 

Readings from all three gauges are inter-related. Improper fuel pressure can really throw the ECM off in closed loop operation. The ECM expects about 51 psi at idle. I have the fuel pressure set to go to 65 psi at WOT at redline.

[P15UL T]

holy crap tere, that is some amount of knowledge

[Zedrush]

I could read tere's posts all day, so much interesting info and knowledge hangs on every word bet you were a formular one race tuner in a previous life

[Tere]

I wish.

 

It's called learning by necessity. Today's computer controlled cars are a pain in the patoot. I long for the good old days of tuning by ear -- not a stinking computer or sensor in the whole car. Shoot the timing light, twist the distributor a bit, maybe adjust the carburetor jets a little, and you're good to go. And you could crawl in the engine bay with the engine.

 

I tore both arms up today just replacing the thermostat (the old one was sticking). It's an easy job with a normally aspirated Z, but with the supercharger hanging there it's a challenge. Had to get a little creative with swivels and extensions for one of the three bolts.

[Guest prescience]

holy crap tere, that is some amount of knowledge

+1

 

when I was looking into this I found the following useful on the subject

http://www.gadgetonline.com/U-Tune.pdf

[Tere]

Dang... Deja vue my own little spiel. Nice to see he agrees with tuning closed loop first. Talk to most folks about this and all you get is a blank stare.

 

That's a great tuning article -- really lays it all out.