fake ben taylor

Yeah. Can't remember where I read it but easy to test. Its what prompted sasha to try bigger tbs.he went to 90mm and had trouble with the idle which I believe they fixed by drilling a very small hole in the butterfly. There's a tried and tested 75mm kit with Good results which I'm trying to replicate cheaper for UK guys rather than order from the states.

Mark that's great!! so the numbers are doable. Granted you say it costs but that's semantics. It being doable is enough for me at this stage. My only gripe about the ppe with parallel merge is the lack of stepped primaries on the de ones. If the hr ones fit they may be a better option as they have the stepped primary. Have you or rjn done any work with bigger tb's or worked the plenum to increase flow or increased the intake pipe diameter? Even stock the de pulls a huge vacuum in the plenum I believe which isn't good on a na engine. Just seen the extra about the chevron stuff. That much power on stock cams but itbs shows how much gain can be had by opening the intake (itbs obviously being the ultimate but there's work can be done with the plenum and stock tb)

The headers are the key but they've got to be long enough for the pulse effect to act as a pump. Same as tuning itb trumpet length And then the primary diameter has to be enough. There's a lot to it that I won't pretend to understand but the z is restricted on it inlet and exhaust and you can't change them singularly. And if no one is running the right exhaust manifolds that unlock the power then all the money in the world thrown at high comp etc won't do anything if the engine can't breathe through its exhaust.... Now I will gladly welcome someone saying 'I ran ppe headers' or 'I had some proper long tubes made' and them finding it didn't work. But if no one has done the right things to get power then why does it make it impossible to get power with the right mods? Has anyone in the UK ran proper long tubes with the aim of getting power? I'm genuinely interested in their findings if they have. Was it on a revup or normal de? If de did they add cams? Na tuning is finicky. Its gotta be done right and sasha has spent the money working out how to do it right so all we need to do is replicate it. And if it isn't done right it doesn't matter how much money other tuners have thrown at the problem it won't yield the results. That doesn't make it impossible. Also this isn't a tuning issue on the ecu, revup can do this (Michael Gardner is running sasha's old engine on revup and got better results).

Same company harry is dealing with AFAIK lol

The dyno in the Link I posted pulls a std de at 210-220atw. That's not over reading so I tend to believe the results on that dyno. I haven't seen any good posts other than people who haven't done it saying not to do it just because they assume it won't work or its too expensive? I'm not bothered either way, I'm tuning mine na. Don't like the idea of adding weight to an already overweight car. I was hoping to just add a bit of proof that na tuning these cars isn't expensive and produces good results If you do the right things. Hopefully others will read and take the 'don't go na' comments with a pinch of salt in future.

That's the key bit though. You cannot assume that everyone does that. What it looks like is that you said you only need headers and remap for 320rwhp, which is of course wrong. You have in fairness explained it now, however that initial assumption has led to some misleading reading. As you say, you will obviously need more than just headers and a remap for that kind of power, which then brings you closer to the realistic cost that everyone else is talking about. I said that right at the beginning... But most, if not all, fit an exhaust, plenum spacer and decats or hfc to their z..... I always said after those. I just didn't include those as they tend to get done even on fi cars

Gah missed the extra page. It won't cost £4k in parts alone.... Ive listed some costs, it's a lot less than that? And 300bhp with different plenum, exhaust and decats is very different to 300whp which the revup can do easily..... But I'm bored of repeating myself. Ive shown proof of what can be done with much more out there and you're all bad mouthing it by twisting words and making stuff up. No proof or experience.

Who's Steve and how big?

320atw isn't that far off supercharger power in the grand scheme. But yes I was generalising. Factor in the weight of a charger kit and I bet the power per ton isn't miles apart

This isn't an rx7, thought you were going to say you'd tried them on a z. This kit works fine and isn't stupidly bigger

I never said 1500 for that. You guys have. I said on a revup for near 320rwhp all you need is headers and a map after the obvious stuff is done like decat, plenum spacer etc that everyone does. I then said how much those headers cost. That's it. The rest you guys have made up between yourselves. With cams, headers and a remap (you're adding install costs as a guess to na but not adding it to fi cost) and gtr injectors, bigger tb you're looking at near 340atw. Howbthat has turned into all those things for 320 I don't know. And on the bigger tb, again everyone stateside has been doing it for ages with no issues. There's a kit available plug and play already

Before doesn't really matter.... Everyone knows what a stock de puts down at the wheels. I was going to do it over this winter but have bought a other house instead lol so now waiting till the finances sort themselves out again

Grundy that isn't at all what I said.....

You don't need to go as far as itb 's. All those power graphs are at the wheels. Also if you look at the graphs you'll see it doesn't take crazy Revs to hit the peak power. He used a motel as his race car came with it. Bit he has since replicated the results using revup. Also only the valve springs need uprating with the cams, no relief cut outs are needed in the pistons. Jwt make the cams (who made the good inlet filter setup) and the springs and supply all the information required with them. No crazy tuning needed. No crazy Revs. No crazy stand alone. No crazy internal work. Factor in the added weight up front on an already nose heavy car and na tuning like this starts to make sense. Well to me at least. For cams, headers and a remap you're looking at half the cost of a charger setup. And don't charger setups need fuel return systems, ecu, etc?

Itbs are mega ££££ and need a stand alone ecu set up. Everything up to those can be done with revup remaps Cams are £900 a set Inc uprated springs I think. Not sure on fitting, I aim to do it myself. Headers are 1500 from ppe for stainless, less if you go mild steel. Available through Torqen. Remap, not sure on prices on these but can be done via revup. For the big numbers also need larger throttle body (I'm designing a cheap UK based kit atm), modified inlet plenum, larger inlet pipework, gtr injectors, Walbro.

Your maths is right, i.e. 340bhp is achievable with internal parts changed. Your pricing is completly off. My pricing, if you read what I said, was for near 320 on a rev up. That link I posted is all on a de. He added headers and a freed up intake to a revup and broke 300atw straight away.

Interesting also on those graphs to note where peak power is. He was revving to 8k as it makes for a quicker race car but for peak power he didn't need to rev much past 7k

http://www.onpointdyno.com/?p=1110 Before ridiculing read this. This is sasha anis who documented every step all over my350z and has replicated the results on other cars. This is just a handy reference. Notice how he said high comp and forging added zero power as it wasn't the bottleneck? That's why no one in UK has managed power na yet, no one's taken the right path.

The world is doing it.... Just not the UK. Don't want revup cams for the 340, need some very wild ones, like jwt c8 and above. But thank you all for highlighting why no one on this forum tunes na. Rather than approach it with 'interesting, no one here has managed that yet' you ridicule and shout it down. The 'specialists' in the UK haven't really tried the right mods in the UK yet to get power.

No one has ordered long tube headers... Sasha anis detailed it all. There's magazine articles, my350z where many have now done it. Look up 'on point dyno' Maybe a lot of the reason is that every na tuning post on this forum is shot down with 'its a waste of money' or 'just go fi' etc with no one actually having done any research into na...... Ppe are the only manufacturers of long tube headers for rhd cars and when I spoke to them they'd only sold two sets to the UK. One set I know of is on a early de so wont see the gains without cams as well. In America there's Ppe and what was sgmotorsport headers (but sgmotorsport ones are now made under license by someone else).

Sorry. 1500 plus a remap

That's brilliant news on the hr headers! The ppe hr headers are a better design than the de ones. Wonder if they would also fit? Fwiw guys, after the usual breathing mods (spacer, filter, exhaust, decats), on a rev up just adding long tube headers (like ppe not dc type) should see you break 300hp at the wheels. Earlier de cams aren't as aggressive so sadly there's no gains with headers alone but headers and cams will see near 320 at the wheels. A few other little bits and near 340 at the wheels is doable. So taking revup. You're looking at £1500 for headers (after the usual bits are done) for not far off supercharger power.......

I didn't think hr manifolds fit the de? Head flange is different? Those saying you can't tune a z na should look up sasha anis and Michael Gardner.

They were designed for a function. Its just people want the look without the function Louvres on Nissan aren't a new thing. Look up old z's, s13 Louvres etc. They were designed to ventilate the cabin

There aren't any, or at least any that I've found in my googling. Only way I've found/seen to get the seats lower is my mounting to the floor or to straps (like jez at horsham).