ug45cwb Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have been playing professional online poker since I finished uni around 4 years ago. I have been pretty successful and made more money than I would have done had I gone down the grad job route. A few months ago I withdrew most of my online bankroll to buy myself somewhere to live and take a break from playing as it can get very repetitive. After taking a few months off poker to decorate my house and a few other things, I have decided to start playing again part time. I have a $1500 dollar bankroll and am starting off at fairly low stakes of NL50 (thats no limit holdem with a $50 buyin). I am going to play at least 50,000 hands at this buyin level, documenting my progress in this thread along the way. I will post a graph of each days profit/loss, along with details of 2 hands per session, describing my thought process and why I chose certain actions. I will usually use my biggest winning and biggest losing hand of the session for this purpose. After completing the 50,000 hands (probably take more or less a month) I will decide if I have the skill and bankroll requirements to move up to the next buyin level ($100) or not. I will not move to the next level unless I have a bankroll of at least 30 buyins for the next level. I have a few reasons for doing this, the main one being I feel professional online poker is very misunderstood in general and I want to give people a better idea of what is involved and how it works. I also feel it will help me think through my decisions and give myself motivation to play more and play better. I'm not sure if this is something people will be interested in or not, if the thread doesn't get much interest I will stop it. The poker forums I read are full of threads like this but the people on them tend to be total doucebags so I decided to do mine here instead! Losing Hand Cassava Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1141289 DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter UTG: $26.22 CO: $50.00 Hero (BTN): $50.00 SB: $83.78 BB: $50.00 Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with A 7 UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.25, 1 fold, BB calls $1.75, UTG calls $1.75 Flop: ($7.00) 7 2 3(3 players) BB checks, UTG bets $7, Hero calls $7, BB folds Turn: ($21.00) 8(2 players) UTG bets $16.97, Hero calls $16.97 River: ($54.94) 6(2 players) Final Pot: $54.94 UTG shows 7 6 Hero shows A 7 UTG wins $52.20 (Rake: $2.74) The player who calls the big blind in early position is very bad and very loose, playing over 80% of his hands. My hand of A7 offsuit is not a great hand, but it fares to be a lot better than the average of the hands the limper is playing, so I raise. I have the dealer button which means I have the best position on the table. The 2 players in the blinds are very tight (playing around 20% of hands) and I don't expect them to do anything other than fold the majority of the time. The bad preflop limper calls, along with one of the tight players in the blinds. At this point the bad player can have almost anything, but the tight player will usually have a midstrength hand like AJ or 66, occasionally suited connectors like 89. I hit top pair on the flop with ace kicker. The bad player makes a pot size bet on the flop which I am more than happy to call. He could still have almost anything at this point. If the tight player in the blinds does anything other than fold my hand is in big trouble and will be an easy fold unless it improves on later streets. Luckily he folds and I am heads up with the bad player. Perfect. The bad player bets his remaining stack on the 8 turn. This is a very easy call when he has shown extremely sporadic tenancies in the past. At this point we both have a pair of 7's but my kicker beats his. On the river he hits his 2 pair and wins the pot, but this is largely irrelevant. He put his entire stack in the pot with a worse hand I am pleased I have the opportunity to continue playing with him. Biggest win Cassava Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players - View hand 1141312 DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter BTN/SB: $62.40 Hero (BB): $70.21 Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with Q J BTN/SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN/SB calls $1 Flop: ($3.00) 4 6 8(2 players) Hero checks, BTN/SB checks Turn: ($3.00) Q(2 players) Hero bets $2.25, BTN/SB raises to $9.75, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($22.50) J(2 players) Hero checks, BTN/SB bets $51.15, Hero calls $51.15 Final Pot: $124.80 BTN/SB shows Q 8 Hero shows Q J Hero wins $124.30 (Rake: $0.50) This is a heads up (1v1) hand vs another bad player. He is playing passively overall. He limps on the button which he has been doing most hands. My QJ is not a super strength hand and not great to play out of position, but it easily beats the average strength of hands he is limping the button with so I raise. He has shown a tendency to play very straightforward after the flop so I will be able to win the pot a lot by making a small bet on the flop making him fold when he has nothing (players only make a pair or better on about 30% of flops in no limit holdem). I decide against betting on this flop (my intended move preflop) because it connects well with the type of hands he plays in this fashion before the flop. He will have some kind of pair or draw very often here. He checks too leading me to think he has some small piece of the flop or a draw. If he had absolutely nothing he would probably bet to get me to fold hands like the one I have. The turn gives me top pair which is great means I will have the best hand pretty often.. I want to make him call with draws or worse pairs (which he would likely just check again) so I bet 2/3 pot. He raises, which is unexpected. I am no longer happy about my hand because he has not shown the propensity to bluff in this way so far in the match and he is too passive to raise hands worse than mine (like a queen with lower kicker). I think about folding but decide to call hoping he has a draw. I will fold to a large river bet unless I improve. I hit my second pair on the river. Neither of the flush draws complete so I check hoping he bets if this is what he has. He bets all-in for nearly double the pot. At this point I am sure he has a hand he thinks is good but struggle to think of a hand that beats mine. A flopped straight or flopped set would probably bet on the flop. All flushdraws missed. The nuts straight (8 10) would not raise the turn, nor would JJ (unlikely anyway as I have a J in my hand. I decide his most likely hands are worse 2 pairs like Q8, Q6, Q4 so I call and he shows Q8. Session Results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragus Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Don't understand some of it as I am not a big poker player but it certainly sounds as if you know what you are doing. I will keep an eye of this thread - interested to see how much , money you can make by doing this if you are good. Always thought a big element of this was luck but the fact you see the same professionals on tv time and time again suggests otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 You and Beavis will get on just fine I find that most poker hands, no matter the skill level of the players play different every time. You could take the same two players with the same hands at different times andthey wouldn't make the same decision. I suppose it depends on the history between the players and the "feel" at the (online) table I guess. Will read with interest tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9O OEY Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi, I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread ,iv played a lot of poker I got through to the nationals at a local pub but got knocked out with pocket kings . Iv also played most sites online seem to normally do well to begin with then lose my concentration and start seeing too many hands and chasing . What site do u play on? ug how do you manage to keep your concentration playing as long as u do ? What sort of profits would you expect to make on a average wk ? Good luck look fwd to seeing future threads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinggreen Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 keep the thread going I found it very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz0 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Absolute jibber jabber to me! But I do find it interesting how much you make / loose, so keep it up! I used to fix a guys computer regularly who made a very profitable living from betting on the horses, which I thought was impressive ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky370z Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 How much annually would u turn over on an average year. It must be a fair bit if u have bought a house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ug45cwb Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi, I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this thread ,iv played a lot of poker I got through to the nationals at a local pub but got knocked out with pocket kings . Iv also played most sites online seem to normally do well to begin with then lose my concentration and start seeing too many hands and chasing . What site do u play on? ug how do you manage to keep your concentration playing as long as u do ? What sort of profits would you expect to make on a average wk ? Good luck look fwd to seeing future threads I will always try and do some exercise before playing, as well as making sure I have a good diet and stay hydrated by drinking water through the session. For me personally this is essential to playing well in long sessions. I usually play 6 tables at a time. A good, long term winrate is usually 10 big blinds an hour, so about $30 an hour long term average for playing 6 tables of $50. Don't really want to answer questions on how much I have made, partly because I don't think how much you earn should be a topic of conversation and partly because the games are much, much harder now than when I started so it will have no reflection on my potential earnings these days. I'm about to start up another session, will post graph when I'm done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 nice thread, will be interesting to see. and i liked this bit especially The poker forums I read are full of threads like this but the people on them tend to be total doucebags so I decided to do mine here instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ug45cwb Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Last nights session went pretty badly, was over $400 down at one point. Won most of it back by the end but it meant I won less than $100 for the day of about 6.5 hours play, McDonalds wages! Will do the hand analysis later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ug45cwb Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 2 hour session this morning. Never really got momentum but made a couple of buyins so cant grumble. The green line is what I won, the red line is what I would have won if everything had worked out mathematically average for situations where I was all in. http://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-expected-value.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilp Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 This is a very interesting read. Hope to see more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Nice to see a thread about poker I have been playing online poker for quite a few years now and have made some money at it. But i find my discipline not as good online. You cant beat the live game imho where i have won quite alot, there is nothing better than staring someone in the face begging them to call when you have the nuts I can easily play for 10 hours or more live but i am waning after a couple of hours infront of a screen And if i am honest i dont trust the game online! No matter what is written about it telling us its not and that its highly regulated, you just see to many fantasy hands imho. The other day on full tilt i flopped broadway and an inside royal flush draw and i still lost Will be playing online tonight though in a satellite to win my £165 seat for next months Stoke 150. Played in a £50,000 tornament last November where i won my seat for a fiver and came 35th out of 291 runners and just five places of the money that started at £480 when my pocket kings got outdrawn on the turn by pocket two's Which sites are you playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ug45cwb Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Nice to see a thread about poker I have been playing online poker for quite a few years now and have made some money at it. But i find my discipline not as good online. You cant beat the live game imho where i have won quite alot, there is nothing better than staring someone in the face begging them to call when you have the nuts I can easily play for 10 hours or more live but i am waning after a couple of hours infront of a screen And if i am honest i dont trust the game online! No matter what is written about it telling us its not and that its highly regulated, you just see to many fantasy hands imho. The other day on full tilt i flopped broadway and an inside royal flush draw and i still lost Will be playing online tonight though in a satellite to win my £165 seat for next months Stoke 150. Played in a £50,000 tornament last November where i won my seat for a fiver and came 35th out of 291 runners and just five places of the money that started at £480 when my pocket kings got outdrawn on the turn by pocket two's Which sites are you playing? Currently playing 888.com but have played most popular sites at one time or another. The games online are totally legit (more so than live games I would say) although people are finding ways to cheat. This is mainly through hacking your opponents computer so you can see their cards, or in the higher stakes games people think they are playing one person when they are actually playing a group of players working together to analyse your play. I can safely say in my tens of thousands of hours playing I have never encountered either. Most of the time people are looking for an excuse as to why they have lost that isn't just bad luck or bad play. Stats For this post instead of analysing hands I have decided to explain what statistics I use on players. This will mean I can go into greater detail in future posts as to why I chose certain actions. This is what I see on screen when i'm playing: The stats in the yellow box are in depth and usually used for the more difficult decisions, the stats in the box outlined in red are the common stats and used in almost every decision I make. Here is what they mean: VP: Voluntarily Put (money in pot). This is a percentage of hands this player is playing. Roughly speaking, in 6 player game, under 20% is tight, 20-28% is average and over 28% is loose. This is probably the "best" stat and gives a good indication how loose a player is. PFR: Pre Flop Raise. How often a player raises preflop, as a percentage. Around 18% is average for decent players. 3B: Three bet percentage. How often opponents reraise preflop F3: Fold to three bet percentage. How often they fold when their preflop raise gets reraised. (next line down) AF: Aggression factor. Another very useful stat for telling how aggressive a player is. Around 2.5-3.5 is average for most decent players. If someone has a very low aggression factor, they are less likely to bluff. SQ: Squeeze. Semi-advanced stat will explain another time FCB: Flop continuation bet. How often a player bets the flop after raising preflop. The lower this number, the more likely the opponent has something when they bet the flop. FvFCB: Fold vs Flop continuation bet. The higher this number, the more likely you will be able to bet the flop and make your opponents fold when they do not have a strong hand. H: Hands. How many hands of information you have on a player. This is important as some statistics need a lot of hands to give a true reading. Some stats take longer to converge to the true value than others. Played another short session just now, went quite well, made around $130 in not many hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ug45cwb Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Been playing a lot and doing very well since I last posted. This hand really sucked: Cassava Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1144958 DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter Hero (SB): $121.38 BB: $19.97 UTG: $15.44 CO: $119.11 BTN: $28.25 Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with 5 :heart: 5 :diamond: 1 fold, CO raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, BB calls $1.25 Flop: ($5.25) K :spade: 7 :heart: 5 :spade: (3 players) Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $3.93, Hero raises to $12.50, BB folds, CO raises to $28, Hero raises to $119.63, CO calls $89.36 all in Turn: ($239.97) 8 :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in) River: ($239.97) J :spade: (2 players - 1 is all in) Although there are hardly any situations in no limit holdem where i'm willing to fold a flopped set, this may have been one of them. Heres why: I have a long history with this opponent and a specific read that he does not play draws aggressively, a read which has been proven right time and time again. Also, in all the hands I have played with him, he has shown zero propensity to make large bluffs against other good players, which I assume he sees me as. This means he must have some kind of hand he values very highly at showdown. We are well over 200 big blinds deep in this hand, meaning he needs a much stronger hand to want to put all the money in the middle. He's also very tight, so he would not raise K7 preflop. This leaves me with very few hands which I beat that he plays this way. Sometimes maybe he shows up with AA, but even that would play a little more cautiously here. When I go allin on the flop there is very little good that can come out of the situation. He will sometimes fold if he was trying to run a rare bluff, or call and 90% of the time have me beat. In short, the whole situation sucked as did my play. Winning Hand Cassava Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1144977 DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter Hero (SB): $90.85 BB: $59.93 UTG: $22.00 MP: $107.64 CO: $36.56 BTN: $50.00 Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with J :club: K :club: UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, CO calls $0.50, BTN calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.50, 2 folds, CO calls $3, 1 fold Flop: ($8.50) T :diamond: K :diamond: 5 :spade: (2 players) Hero bets $6.37, CO raises to $33.06, Hero calls $26.69 Turn: ($74.62) 3 :club: (2 players) River: ($74.62) 6 :heart: (2 players) This hand doesn't need much analysis, but might be interesting anyway. I have a pretty strong hand preflop with KJ suited, and lots of players limp. I want to try and cut down the number of opponents I am against so the hand is easier to play, so I raise fairly large to $3.50. Only the donkey at the table calls. He doesn't have a full buyin, there are tons of hands he wont fold that I beat and lots of draws out there so my intention is just to put money into the pot. When he goes all in and I call, we both have a roughly 50/50 chance of winning the pot, and infact he was a slight favourite. He can win if any diamond, ace or Jack hit the board, giving him the nuts. I manage to avoid them all on turn and river and win the pot. Over half way through the 50,000 hand target and won a little over $2k. Pretty good considering i'm only playing for $50 a time. Overall pleased with my game, some improvements to make. I have been spending more time selecting which tables to play, playing the worst players I can at all times and this makes a big difference to the amount of money I make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9O OEY Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Wow that's some sort of stats u need to keep on top of if playin 6,6 seater tables , do u write down notes on each player ?as to be able to bring up that info when the clocks ticking and u need to make a decision must be a nightmare. I played 2/3 tables a few times and I found it very hard at times I had to make decisions and the site was flicking from one match to another bleeping at me Also I found that I missed who raised pre flop or re raised etc.fair play mate very impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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