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350Z Rear/side Louvres


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Firstly Happy new year year all!

 

secondly I'm relatively new to the forum so hope that this is ok to post/ right place to and I'm not sure on the selling rules so hopefully the mods or someone can let me know, where is the best place to ask :)

 

So I am an engineer by trade (sheet metal mainly) and also a great lover of the rear window and side louvres for the 350Z. however I'm not a great lover of the rather high price these seem to be!

 

Anyway long story short, I asked my boss if I can make my own, and he says it ok (if I pay him for the shop time and materials used) now ill have to design and produce my own version of this so that it properly fits the windows, but as with most things one off bespoke parts are far more expensive that bigger orders.

 

so if I can get 5 (hopefully 10) people interested, by the time I have the design right I think they would be around £170 painted (powder coated Gloss black, but I guess they could be any colour) made from aluminium, lightweight and doesn't rust! need to check that and ask to work out for the side louvres. 

 

just wanted to check if anyone is interested as ill definitely be making at least one for myself, and it could be a good deal if anybody else wants one, let me know :) 

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Obviously if you give me a time frame and keep us updated with progress and info I would be interested however I believe to be a seller there’s certain rules which are mentioned at the top of the traders page just so you know but if it all checks out and you get approved then yes I I’ll be interested :D

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I personally am not in too much off a rush to get it fitted to my Z as she's all tucked up for the winter, hence why I thought now might be a good time. however I'm happy to crack on with it as I appreciate others my want there's sooner, but realistically its likely to be around 6 weeks by the time I get to a production ready piece, but it may well be sooner, ill keep my progress updated here as best as I can.

 

as for the rules I've spoken to the mods and sorted all out with them, so will be all good to go before I sell anything, to keep within the rules :) 

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12 hours ago, Anth4130 said:

I'll have a set 

Great Hopefully we can get a list going soon :)

 

 

11 hours ago, marzman said:

How would they be attached if you're making them out of aluminium?  I've got plastic ones stick on my Mustang with 3m tape...

 

This is how I was planning to attach them to my car, I have seen versions on other cars that have a thread post type things which is glued to the screen, then the panel is screwed down, but this involved putting holes in it, I think ill leave holes out of it so people can have both options if need be holes can be drilled into the part :) 

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The rear one was fabricated in metal a number of years ago by a member called Grundy who ran off with everyones money.:angry:. Obvious to say but the fixing of these is key. Can you imagine a rear louvre flying off at 70 mph. Weight is your other challenge as do people really want to add that much weight on their z ??. Rear visibility is not great on these cars so personally I would not want to make it worse than it already is. The side louvres are obviously easier. I had them ones on my Nismo which I liked..

 

You will also have to register on her as a member trader before you can sell them to this group.

 

Good luck with the venture, nice to see a member fabricating something for the other members to enjoy too.

:clap:.

 

 

 

 

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What an &%!@! :angry:

 

ill sort out all proper registration in time, and if people pay via PayPal there money is protected isn't it? I'm not too sure, but I certainly wont be running off with anyone's money that's for sure!

 

as for fixing and weight, I think that good strong 3M tape will hold it, I've used it at work to bond in 10KG glass windows in door and you'll struggle to get it off without smashing the glass, but I figure if I make the fit as good as possible, people will have the best chance of fitting, but like I say there are a few options and I'm going to explore this further, and educated guess work I think the weight will be around 7-8kg, possibly less, I'm not sure too many people will think that's a lot? I reckon I put that on over Christmas so ill gain that weight back when the gyms re-open! :D

 

thanks for the good wishes, be nice to help each other out, what the forums are for :) 

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I believe the Zakustech and Tarmac Sportz ones are made of ally (other than the carbon ones), not heard any bad stories...yet? :wacko:

I could very well be interested after seeing a prototype mate 

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11 hours ago, marzman said:

I'll be honest mate, i really wouldn't be comfortable driving around with 7kg of sheet metal vhb taped to my car at 100mph on the motorway - thats doing some damage to my car and worse, the car behind if it comes off. :surrender:

Agreed. I wouldn't want to be responsible for making a product that could result in a major car accident or death. The fixing has to be bullet proof. Good luck with the project though.

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13 hours ago, marzman said:

I'll be honest mate, i really wouldn't be comfortable driving around with 7kg of sheet metal vhb taped to my car at 100mph on the motorway - thats doing some damage to my car and worse, the car behind if it comes off. :surrender:

Do you know what type of plastic the ones on your mustang are made from? Aluminium (at least the grade we use has a density of 2.71gmm3 and the average plastic is around 1.65gmm3, so an alu version of the one you have  would not even be double the weight, would you be not confident sticking your mustang one on if it was just 3KG heavier?

 

 

1 hour ago, Payco said:

Agreed. I wouldn't want to be responsible for making a product that could result in a major car accident or death. The fixing has to be bullet proof. Good luck with the project though.

Moving on from above, as Bam points out below has anyone ever heard of them coming off. Ever? I agree the fixing has to be good, but i cant be held responsible for poor fitting, I'm more than open to suggestion on how is best to fit it, but if your really worried, you could stick it on with tiger seal and if you can get that of ill be amassed  if the glue fails before the part if you tried to get it off.

 

for those that are interested, regressing back to my uni days, I did some calculations (which is really difficult to work out as it depends on the drag co-efficient of the car, the density of air (which varies with moisture content temperature etc etc) bumps in roads, but based on lab type conditions, the bond strength of tape is about twice the strength of the pressure load of air at 100mph, and lets not forget these are on the back of the car not the front, the shape of it will mean wind force is only pushing down on the screen and generating no lift, there are far too many variables here anyway, you say you wouldn't want to be responsible for producing the product, but what about the tape? what if that came from a bad batch? wouldn't be any louvre manufactures fault at all if that failed.

 

I can sympathise with everyone's view on this, but personally even using the correct high bond tape (again variables there, surface prep, batch problems etc etc) , A,  I would be amazed if it failed at all, B, id be utterly dumbfounded if it failed completely all at one time and came loose whilst driving at 100 mph ( which obviously is illegal anyway) as opposed to maybe working loose over time.

 

I fully appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion, but mine is with the correct tape/product, and correct prep, its not moving for toffee, that said, as the design develops ill see if there is a possible supplementary fixing system that could be designed :)  and many thanks for the well wishes :) 

 

 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Bam said:

I believe the Zakustech and Tarmac Sportz ones are made of ally (other than the carbon ones), not heard any bad stories...yet? :wacko:

I could very well be interested after seeing a prototype mate 

had a quick search and yes, it does seem there are a few out there offering an alu version already, and like you say not heard of any failings.

 

thanks for the interest ill keep this page updated with design and prototype pics etc etc :) 

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I've got no idea what type of plastic mine are made from, i'm guessing FRP or ABS, but that's not the point.  I personally wouldn't want to tape metal anything to my car.  Plastic or carbon will crack or shatter if falling off and driven over by the car behind - alu won't and would do some proper damage - even if it is only double the weight.

 

That said, yes there are alu louvre's out there such as the Tarmac version. I dont know how these are fitted, and I'm not saying VHB tape wouldn't be suitable, but if i was buying (or selling) a product, i'd want to be assured that it was safe and not just based on a gut feel that VHB is strong enough.  You mention that you'll make it aerodynamic etc, but without testing (or a wind tunnel!) i'm not sure how it can be proven that tape would be capable of holding the louvres on at high speed. I'm assuming tape surface area matters too, and there are different tape grades/suppliers with different applications etc.  As a seller i'd either want to provide a confirmed suitable tape, or specify which tape to use (or mandate tigerseal as you suggested).

 

 

 

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its a fair point but I guess anything coming off at high speed will cause some damage, I remember my dad had an old Vauxhall and driving home one day the rear window just fell out, no one around him, but I guess anything could happen!

 

like you say very difficult to test that, and wind tunnels are not real world environments for this anyway, I'm pretty sure that these are also taped down but cant see what with on their website, or any recommendation at all, I'm assuming your ones came with the tape then did they? also I don't think its fair to say its just a "gut" feel, I've done some maths and its viable. 

As with all these types of things its always personal preference, I can make a recommendation and ill post how I eventually fit mine, but like you say there are many variables , and someone may come up with a better fixing solution, I would be manufacturing, not installing, but as we both say tiger seal is probably the way to go if you have a nervous disposition about it.  

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Ive got one of Grundys Project louvre z Louvres,  I used No more nails tape on mine. Numerous track days and 4 years later was still on solid. Only removed as I had the window out for a respray, will use tape again when I get round to re-installing it. Worth mentioning mines not a daily and never sees rain, so may have used another alternative if she'd lived outside etc. 

 

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