Kev946 Posted April 15, 2008 Author Share Posted April 15, 2008 GentsI can see where Kev is coming from. In the right hands the weight does not seem a massive problem but the only way to build a race car is to get it as light as possible. What I would like to see is someone with our driving talent taking it around the ring. Trust me you will be braking way more than the nissan test driver. That will likely mean you will not get away with more than 2 laps of the ring at a time. An elsie and exige could go around all day only stopping for fuel. The first normal person that has a go at getting with 10% of the quoted times is likely to face a rather repair bill when he cannot it stop it quickly or floors it too early since he had to brake too hard for the corner. If you check times of very fast GT cars around Brands Indy compared to class C LoT cars and you will see there is not much in it. +1... The GT-R will be a crap track car weighing that much. Be prepared to budget for a set of tyres, brake disks and pads per session, not to mention clutch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 If its anything like past Lotus' its likely to be stripped out and bare basic? Says its a 2+2 though so could have the edge over the Zed if you have mates to ship about Have you seen the latest SE Europa, more like a TVR, e.g. leather dash etc. very plush. They say the car is aiming at the 911 market, but it seems to be between the Coxster and 911. I did catch something when it was first launched, but got the impression that although the interior wasnt stripped out like the Elise, it wasnt much to write home about. If I'm honest I didnt pay much attention though Will be good to give the Zed some competition, get Nissan to improve the interior and give it a diet Check out the latest Europa, very plush and dear I say better than the Zed. Also some cracking deals. Check this one http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/415473.htm Might be a lot of leather in that Europa but all the ones I've seen look like the stitching was done by Stevie Wonder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captint Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 See http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080414.009 ... tted-again Looks like the Hoff is back in town Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 GentsI can see where Kev is coming from. In the right hands the weight does not seem a massive problem but the only way to build a race car is to get it as light as possible. What I would like to see is someone with our driving talent taking it around the ring. Trust me you will be braking way more than the nissan test driver. That will likely mean you will not get away with more than 2 laps of the ring at a time. An elsie and exige could go around all day only stopping for fuel. The first normal person that has a go at getting with 10% of the quoted times is likely to face a rather repair bill when he cannot it stop it quickly or floors it too early since he had to brake too hard for the corner. If you check times of very fast GT cars around Brands Indy compared to class C LoT cars and you will see there is not much in it. +1... The GT-R will be a crap track car weighing that much. Be prepared to budget for a set of tyres, brake disks and pads per session, not to mention clutch... Well that is the first time that i have seen or heard that word associated with the performance of the GT-R But at the end of the day i bet you would like to take it around a track kev? Anyhow does not really bother me, i am never going to budget for any of that stuff even if i had a GT-R because i am not really going to spend 55k on a car just to pound around some track all day long!! Anyhow i read that the clutch was good for 150,000 miles, so i would hardly think that the computer controlled transmission is going to go tits up with a single track day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 GentsI can see where Kev is coming from. In the right hands the weight does not seem a massive problem but the only way to build a race car is to get it as light as possible. What I would like to see is someone with our driving talent taking it around the ring. Trust me you will be braking way more than the nissan test driver. That will likely mean you will not get away with more than 2 laps of the ring at a time. An elsie and exige could go around all day only stopping for fuel. The first normal person that has a go at getting with 10% of the quoted times is likely to face a rather repair bill when he cannot it stop it quickly or floors it too early since he had to brake too hard for the corner. If you check times of very fast GT cars around Brands Indy compared to class C LoT cars and you will see there is not much in it. +1... The GT-R will be a crap track car weighing that much. Be prepared to budget for a set of tyres, brake disks and pads per session, not to mention clutch... Well that is the first time that i have seen or heard that word associated with the performance of the GT-R But at the end of the day i bet you would like to take it around a track kev? Anyhow does not really bother me, i am never going to budget for any of that stuff even if i had a GT-R because i am not really going to spend 55k on a car just to pound around some track all day long!! Anyhow i read that the clutch was good for 150,000 miles, so i would hardly think that the computer controlled transmission is going to go tits up with a single track day? Of course silly me, Nissan transmissions are immensely reliable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 The thing that makes this place interesting is different peoples views. Some are very much into lightweight cars. Power to weight is king! Others are into out and out performance, 2 tonnes going 200mph! There are others that want a GT car that cruises along on a wave of torque with some speed if they want it. We have to respect each others views and if we are really feeling clever we can learn something from one another. Me??? I'd like an 800kg GT car with loads of torque that can do 200mph and get there in under 20 secs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 GentsI can see where Kev is coming from. In the right hands the weight does not seem a massive problem but the only way to build a race car is to get it as light as possible. What I would like to see is someone with our driving talent taking it around the ring. Trust me you will be braking way more than the nissan test driver. That will likely mean you will not get away with more than 2 laps of the ring at a time. An elsie and exige could go around all day only stopping for fuel. The first normal person that has a go at getting with 10% of the quoted times is likely to face a rather repair bill when he cannot it stop it quickly or floors it too early since he had to brake too hard for the corner. If you check times of very fast GT cars around Brands Indy compared to class C LoT cars and you will see there is not much in it. +1... The GT-R will be a crap track car weighing that much. Be prepared to budget for a set of tyres, brake disks and pads per session, not to mention clutch... Well that is the first time that i have seen or heard that word associated with the performance of the GT-R But at the end of the day i bet you would like to take it around a track kev? Anyhow does not really bother me, i am never going to budget for any of that stuff even if i had a GT-R because i am not really going to spend 55k on a car just to pound around some track all day long!! Anyhow i read that the clutch was good for 150,000 miles, so i would hardly think that the computer controlled transmission is going to go tits up with a single track day? Of course silly me, Nissan transmissions are immensely reliable.... That may be the case but you dont know that about the GT-R, at the end of the day Nissan are having a single engineer build the transmission in a clean room, that alone show's the efforts they are making with this car. In some respects the transmission is a world first on this car built in association with Borg-Warner and the multi-plate clutch is said to be good for 150k. I am sorry kev that you have to get on your high horse or make flippant remarks everytime someone challenges your obvious superior knowledge of cars, but after all it is a public forum. Sometimes i get the impression that you just want us to say "Kev no matter what car you have wether it be a Lotus or BMW its way better than the 350z. And there is a lot of Marque snobbery these days, its a bitter pill to swallow i guess when the maker's of the Micra produce something that goes around a track quicker than a BMW,Porsche or virtually anything else you care to name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 This just about sums up the level of interest I saw at the Lotus stand in Geneva. The Eagle is either going to be one ugly mother or is incredibly well disguised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 GentsI can see where Kev is coming from. In the right hands the weight does not seem a massive problem but the only way to build a race car is to get it as light as possible. What I would like to see is someone with our driving talent taking it around the ring. Trust me you will be braking way more than the nissan test driver. That will likely mean you will not get away with more than 2 laps of the ring at a time. An elsie and exige could go around all day only stopping for fuel. The first normal person that has a go at getting with 10% of the quoted times is likely to face a rather repair bill when he cannot it stop it quickly or floors it too early since he had to brake too hard for the corner. If you check times of very fast GT cars around Brands Indy compared to class C LoT cars and you will see there is not much in it. +1... The GT-R will be a crap track car weighing that much. Be prepared to budget for a set of tyres, brake disks and pads per session, not to mention clutch... Well that is the first time that i have seen or heard that word associated with the performance of the GT-R But at the end of the day i bet you would like to take it around a track kev? Anyhow does not really bother me, i am never going to budget for any of that stuff even if i had a GT-R because i am not really going to spend 55k on a car just to pound around some track all day long!! Anyhow i read that the clutch was good for 150,000 miles, so i would hardly think that the computer controlled transmission is going to go tits up with a single track day? Of course silly me, Nissan transmissions are immensely reliable.... That may be the case but you dont know that about the GT-R, at the end of the day Nissan are having a single engineer build the transmission in a clean room, that alone show's the efforts they are making with this car. In some respects the transmission is a world first on this car built in association with Borg-Warner and the multi-plate clutch is said to be good for 150k. I am sorry kev that you have to get on your high horse or make flippant remarks everytime someone challenges your obvious superior knowledge of cars, but after all it is a public forum. Sometimes i get the impression that you just want us to say "Kev no matter what car you have wether it be a Lotus or BMW its way better than the 350z. And there is a lot of Marque snobbery these days, its a bitter pill to swallow i guess when the maker's of the Micra produce something that goes around a track quicker than a BMW,Porsche or virtually anything else you care to name. I'm not on my high horse and sounds like someone needs a hug... There's always a better car out there guys, better than mine, your's etc. I think the Lotus Eagle will be a gigantic flop for example, and I'm certainly not a badge snob. In fact my favourite transport at the moment has only 2 wheels, my R1, I love it and the performance would embarass a GT-R dear I say. All I can say is you should try drving a proper lightweight sportscar before you make your judgements. I've owned both, done track days in both so at least my comments have a reference point. I don't claim to be any expert, I prefer to listen to people that know, e.g. my Lotus has just had a few [performance upgrades done by Lotus Motorsport at the factory. Now these guys know what they are talking about. Anyway, I don't expect anything but a biased oppnion on a new Nissan model from a Nissan forum, and it is a wonderful piece of engineering, so I'm not knocking that at all, but it's major flaw, like all new models is that they are geting heavier and heavier. That's all I'm saying, simple as that. Now can we get back to the original thread which was the new Lotus Eagle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 on the case of transmission and clutch. The GT-R used around the ring was still on the original gearbox and clutch. It has done alot of miles and all of them very hard ones. This info came from the a very good source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I have a feeling of Deja Vu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 sounds like someone needs a hug... : Your kidding aren't you? I am glad to go work sometimes for a rest, my girlfriend never leaves me alone!! = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 sounds like someone needs a hug... : Your kidding aren't you? I am glad to go work sometimes for a rest, my girlfriend never leaves me alone!! = You lucky geezer. I've met your girlfriend, in fact she's been in my car.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captint Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 This just about sums up the level of interest I saw at the Lotus stand in Geneva. The Eagle is either going to be one ugly mother or is incredibly well disguised. Three hookers and Gordon brown, not bad !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 nice one Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Having an Elise and a Zed on the drive, I have to say comparing a Lotus of any sorts to a Nissan is a step too far IMO. One does not make a true GT car and one does not make flyweight track weapons. And they both have an entirely different approach to cars - one uses a lack of weight and sacrifices comfort, the other uses the latest technology at the 'apparent' cost of weight. If you want to strip the weight and technology out of a GTR, I reckon you're left with not much than an American muscle car. All brawn, no brains. I love both cars on the drive (although the Lotus is being put up for sale this weekend) but you just cannot compare them IMO. Marc, shall we hit the Lotus stand next year?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Having an Elise and a Zed on the drive, I have to say comparing a Lotus of any sorts to a Nissan is a step too far IMO. One does not make a true GT car and one does not make flyweight track weapons. And they both have an entirely different approach to cars - one uses a lack of weight and sacrifices comfort, the other uses the latest technology at the 'apparent' cost of weight.If you want to strip the weight and technology out of a GTR, I reckon you're left with not much than an American muscle car. All brawn, no brains. I love both cars on the drive (although the Lotus is being put up for sale this weekend) but you just cannot compare them IMO. Marc, shall we hit the Lotus stand next year?! I wasn't proposing a stripped out GT-R aka Lotus, just some weight saving materials to bring the enormous weight down. Why do modern cars weigh so much anyway. I realise airbags, crumple zones all add weight, but whay don't manufacturers counteract this with light weight materials, probably cost. Just as a comparison, and yes I've said this before, my Cossie weighs 1315kg. As a car it has 4 seats, is as big as a GT-R but the GT-R weighs 32% more than the Cossie , that's massive. I wouldn't compare a Lotus to a GT-R as they are totally different cars, but if you did the figure would be more like 50%+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Quads Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 As a car it has 4 seats, is as big as a GT-R Are you sure its as Big as the GT-R - IMO A Skyline is a tad bigger than a Cossie (having seen both in real life) but the GT-R dwafs the old Skyline so I would say the GT-R is a much bigger car than the Cossie. Everything is just better made now i.e. Compare the seats in the standard cossie and the ones in the GT-R and the GT-R ones are much more complex and advanced which all adds weight. I am sure they could have made the GT-R lighter - as the V-Spec proves but then you are starting with q 70k+ rather than the 50-6K market. Yes the GT-R is heavy but having read and watched quite a lot of reviews of it many have mentioned that it does no 'feel' heavy so IMO the fact its heavy isn't a major factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Having an Elise and a Zed on the drive, I have to say comparing a Lotus of any sorts to a Nissan is a step too far IMO. One does not make a true GT car and one does not make flyweight track weapons. And they both have an entirely different approach to cars - one uses a lack of weight and sacrifices comfort, the other uses the latest technology at the 'apparent' cost of weight.If you want to strip the weight and technology out of a GTR, I reckon you're left with not much than an American muscle car. All brawn, no brains. I love both cars on the drive (although the Lotus is being put up for sale this weekend) but you just cannot compare them IMO. Marc, shall we hit the Lotus stand next year?! I wasn't proposing a stripped out GT-R aka Lotus, just some weight saving materials to bring the enormous weight down. Why do modern cars weigh so much anyway. I realise airbags, crumple zones all add weight, but whay don't manufacturers counteract this with light weight materials, probably cost. Just as a comparison, and yes I've said this before, my Cossie weighs 1315kg. As a car it has 4 seats, is as big as a GT-R but the GT-R weighs 32% more than the Cossie , that's massive. I wouldn't compare a Lotus to a GT-R as they are totally different cars, but if you did the figure would be more like 50%+. I know you weren't mate, just illustrating the different ethos at the respective manufacturers. As for weight, it will be creature comforts. Leather weighs a lot more than cloth. Heated seats add cabling and heating elements. Airbag systems weigh a lot, as do extra fog lights, aircon units and onboard computers. The Cossie probably makes a very different sound when shutting the door to a Focus, as the engineering has moved on to provide what they perceive the mass market wants. Then you have idiots like BMW try and turn a 3 series into a 'lightweight' version by still trimming things in leather but putting carbon fibre roofs on cars. Also, the cars themselves are getting bigger. A Focus today next to the Cossie would be quite a shock - I know, the lad next to me has a Sierra and even a Mk1 Focus isn't far off. The GTR would dwarf it! I guess it is all just development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev946 Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 You guys would not believe the weight of the Cossie seats. They are highback Recaros and weigh sooo much. I've had them out on many occasions. I'd be surprised if they are lighter than the GT-R's. I realise there's over 20 years of car development between the 2, but this just illustrates that progress in other areas is at the expense of weight. The manufacturers could make their cars lighter but at a cost, so don't. Just look at Motorbikes, they are massively lighter than they were 20 years ago. As for size, don't forget it's a Sierra Cossie, seats 5 adults, has a big boot too, so if it is smaller it's marginal. It's certainly much bigger than the Zed as it fills my garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 sorry can't quite see where this is all going kev and what ya trying to proove. The Z is a sports coupe and not an out and out sports car. If weight is such a big issue, do you not eat before every time you drive the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Not that Im a geek, but, the GT-R is roughly 6 inch longer than a Sierra Cossie, and approx 8 inches wider. The difference in area is over 12.8 Square feet. The weight of a cossie is therefore 16.02kg per square foot and the weight of the GTR is 18.4kg per square foot. An increase of 13% in weight per square foot of car area. [/geek] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 It's funny how the motorcycle R and D departments have focused on efficiency and material design. I guess it's to do with what the customer wants, gold wings and pan europeans weigh a fair bit but their owners get what they want! Sportsbike weigh nothing, go like the clappers and rev all day! Cars are weighing more as the market want luxuries and safety features. The funny thing is that the same government that wants green cars and no C02 also want safety. Unfortunately car manufacturers can't seem to get both down! If the car customer (joe bloggs) wanted leightweight then R and D would take place however they don't. They like driving under a halo model made of composites that costs the earth however on their family run about they don't care it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Not that Im a geek, but, the GT-R is roughly 6 inch longer than a Sierra Cossie, and approx 8 inches wider. The difference in area is over 12.8 Square feet. The weight of a cossie is therefore 16.02kg per square foot and the weight of the GTR is 18.4kg per square foot. An increase of 13% in weight per square foot of car area. [/geek] There must be smoke coming out of your calculator after that one! I love the new metric/imperial measurement that you invented too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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