Top Speeds

[WRCT-2]

Okay here's one for the really technical/ dynamics guys out there :-

 

If we had a 350Z with a fully built engine, churning out around 600 BHP & 600 Ft-lbs. With no top speed limiter, how fast do we think it will go on standard gearing ? Assume a 2 mile runway.

 

BTW it will rev easily to 7000 in 5th so can safely assume 7000 in 6th with top speed limiter removed. I believe it will run c185 MPH.

 

Could we assume with a 3.2:1 diff will it run 200 MPH ????

 

Allan

[live2themaxuk]

my350z.com is a wealth of info. guy called 'Alberto' has done this i believe

[Kev946]

There was a thread regarding a Monaro where the guy claimed 200 mph capability.

 

I've spoken to a guy who has the record in a Saph Cossie. Rod Tarry is his name and he broke the 200 mph mark at Bruntingthorpe. This was all covered by Performance Ford Magazine. His car's engine has about 650-700bhp with another 100 bhp via NOS. He's nearly 60 years old BTW and a lovely guy.

His previous record was about 180 mph. That was with 550 bhp and the 180 mph was at the time one of the best properly recorded top speeds for a Cossie.

 

Also don't forget Cossies only weigh about 1200 kg's so won't need much distance to get up their.

 

See http://www.apra70.dsl.pipex.com/home/news7.htm

 

Based on this I would say the Zed would probably achieve 175 mph ish. Maybe a little faster.

[WRCT-2]

I ran 193 MPH three weeks ago at Bruntingthorpe on a V-Max day in a Porsche 996 Turbo Cabriolet. It is a big fat 1660kg 4wd soft top too !

 

It had around 550 BHP and 580 Lb-ft and we had a 10-12 MPH gusting wind coming in from left front ! So on a wind free day I expect we would have run 195 MPH.

 

I know Rod Tarry's tuner [Mark from MA Developments]

 

Allan

[bronzee]

Not quite what you're asking, but check this out, or do a search on "Heat Treatments" on Google. http://www.300zx.co.nz/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2099

(Especially check out page 2 for the time - it's pretty astounding).

[Kev946]

I ran 193 MPH three weeks ago at Bruntingthorpe on a V-Max day in a Porsche 996 Turbo Cabriolet. It is a big fat 1660kg 4wd soft top too !

 

It had around 550 BHP and 580 Lb-ft and we had a 10-12 MPH gusting wind coming in from left front ! So on a wind free day I expect we would have run 195 MPH.

 

I know Rod Tarry's tuner [Mark from MA Developments]

 

Allan

 

Weight isn't really an issue with top speed just acceleration. The heavier the car the longer it takes to get up there. 580 ld/ft is probably why the Porky achieved such an high speed. Turbo's seem to produce big torque figures.

 

One day I will do a top speed run in my Cossie. Last time on the dyno that was 433 lb/ft which ain't bad for a 2 litre.

[Guest prescience]

The max. theoretical speed for a stock 3.54 final drive ratio @7000rpm is 200mph

 

The max. theoretical speed for a 3.2 FDR @7000rpm is 219mph

 

At 600 BHp, I think 200mph is achievable on stock FDR in 6th @7000 - just

 

Having said that, you couldn't just go out there with 600BHp and run 200mph IMO. You would have to balance the aerodynamics very carefully (wing size etc) in order that you can sufficient downforce to stop you taking off but not too much to dig your rear tyres into the runway.

[sinbad]

The max. theoretical speed for a stock 3.54 final drive ratio @7000rpm is 200mph

 

The max. theoretical speed for a 3.2 FDR @7000rpm is 219mph

 

At 600 BHp, I think 200mph is achievable on stock FDR in 6th @7000 - just

 

Having said that, you couldn't just go out there with 600BHp and run 200mph IMO. You would have to balance the aerodynamics very carefully (wing size etc) in order that you can sufficient downforce to stop you taking off but not too much to dig your rear tyres into the runway.

 

Am i getting this wrong (probably) but isnt the Zed named as the "Zero fighter" as it has no lift? Wouldnt that then make it theroreticaly capable of hitting the limiter at 200mph?

 

I thought the standard car with the small rear spoiler and front lip (UK spec basically ) had zero lift and the Nismo kit was wind tunnel tested to provide downforce for more grip.

 

At least thats the way i thought Nissan explained it on the BMI video?

[Digsy]

The max. theoretical speed for a stock 3.54 final drive ratio @7000rpm is 200mph

 

The max. theoretical speed for a 3.2 FDR @7000rpm is 219mph

 

At 600 BHp, I think 200mph is achievable on stock FDR in 6th @7000 - just

 

Having said that, you couldn't just go out there with 600BHp and run 200mph IMO. You would have to balance the aerodynamics very carefully (wing size etc) in order that you can sufficient downforce to stop you taking off but not too much to dig your rear tyres into the runway.

 

Am i getting this wrong (probably) but isnt the Zed named as the "Zero fighter" as it has no lift? Wouldnt that then make it theroreticaly capable of hitting the limiter at 200mph?

 

I thought the standard car with the small rear spoiler and front lip (UK spec basically ) had zero lift and the Nismo kit was wind tunnel tested to provide downforce for more grip.

 

At least thats the way i thought Nissan explained it on the BMI video?

 

Not sure about that. I thought the Nismo kit (or at least the rear wing) was designed for a computer game and actually has dubious aerodynamic qualities.

[sinbad]

god knows, i'll have to watch the video again.

[Guest prescience]

The max. theoretical speed for a stock 3.54 final drive ratio @7000rpm is 200mph

 

The max. theoretical speed for a 3.2 FDR @7000rpm is 219mph

 

At 600 BHp, I think 200mph is achievable on stock FDR in 6th @7000 - just

 

Having said that, you couldn't just go out there with 600BHp and run 200mph IMO. You would have to balance the aerodynamics very carefully (wing size etc) in order that you can sufficient downforce to stop you taking off but not too much to dig your rear tyres into the runway.

 

Am i getting this wrong (probably) but isnt the Zed named as the "Zero fighter" as it has no lift? Wouldnt that then make it theroreticaly capable of hitting the limiter at 200mph?

 

I thought the standard car with the small rear spoiler and front lip (UK spec basically ) had zero lift and the Nismo kit was wind tunnel tested to provide downforce for more grip.

 

At least thats the way i thought Nissan explained it on the BMI video?

 

I've no idea what it says in the video but that statement does sound extermely odd to me. If there was no lift (and I can't imagine how you'd achieve that), you would actually want to add some because otherwise you would have a nett downforce of the weight of the car in the vertical plane. If it means no "nett lift" then that would imply that lift and downforce are exactly matched - no car would EVER be configured like that because as soon as it went up slightly at the front you would have a nett positive lift and that equals take off.

 

The basic physics is simple ...

if lift

if lift>downforce you don't

 

ps maybe the context was the zero-lift drag coefficient (which is low for a Z in its class)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-lift_drag_coefficient

[sl114]

as above

 

But yes i do know what you mean, for Jay -

 

If there is no lift at all and the front goes up, you will fly like chitty chitty bang bang

[Guest prescience]

The bottom line IMO is that running the Z at 200mph (or close to) with little or no knowledge of the aerodynamics in play is downright dangerous. You wouldn't get me in the car, no way - unless you could fit several more fat blokes in the boot too

[sl114]

To be honest, even in a normal UK 350z at about 150mph, the car felt a bit twitchy to me - private road of cause (in this case it actually was) - and i would not feel safe going any more than that. The front seemed way too light on the steering and the back felt very unstable. This is just my opinion of cause, however its not something that i would like to try.

 

Even still - its about how you get to the speed limit for me, acceleration is what i like

[Kev946]

The bottom line IMO is that running the Z at 200mph (or close to) with little or no knowledge of the aerodynamics in play is downright dangerous. You wouldn't get me in the car, no way - unless you could fit several more fat blokes in the boot too

 

Rod Tarry's Saph Cossie had no extra aero dynamics when he broke 200 mph. Surely the Zed would be more stable than a 20 year old Granada derivtive.

[Pingu2]

there was a post during the summer on my350z.com where they did high speed runs in a TT Z on some salt flats or something.. if you can find it!

 

the video on the making of the Z definately says it has been designed for zero lift.. I presume meaning the lift counters the downforce rather than the lift countering the (downforce + weight)!

[mugwump]

bother, wrote a long and informative reply to this and have lost it! cant be fagged to type it again...... that will be the drink talking.....

[ir_fuel]

the video on the making of the Z definately says it has been designed for zero lift.. I presume meaning the lift counters the downforce rather than the lift countering the (downforce + weight)!

 

Exactly

[MADRod]

Hi

I received a Google Alert on this Topic so came to see what its about.

 

Only 3 things matter on Topspeed runs Power , aerodynamics & gearing forget weight or accleration, remember 100metres gained at the start is only about 1 second when you are travelling at 200mph+.

Doing 200mph in the confines of a 1.7mile straight like Bruntingthorpe is very difficult indeed sounds easy but aint, the difference between a 190 run & passing 200 is enormous. (5% more speed requires at least 15% more Power)

To put it into perspective a Ferrari 360 crawls up to 174mph in that distance & even the mighty AMG Merc with 700/700 only managed a 189.

The world record breaking Ultima managed an impressive 204 & thats shows just how difficult it is.

Gearing must be optimum no point gearing for 200mph if you aint got circa 700bhp it simply wont happen. Optimum gearing means that 200mph must occur around about peak Power or you will be on a Falling Power curve when you require it most.

My own car has done over 30 of these highspeed runs so im beginning to get the hang of it . Can now reach the magic mark within a mile but it takes massive amounts of Power to do that. Lastest Dyno showed 769bhp/644ft-lb & I use 200bhp atw jets of Nitrous pushed at 1500psi so probably around circa 1000bhp, it will run in 2008 .

 

I hope this helps to put it into perspective & I wish you all a Merry Christmas & leave 2 videos of 200+mph in the rain to show how crazy it can get.

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 5969199012

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2234248460

[Kev946]

Thanks Rod. Impressive stuff. Your a legend..

[sinbad]

Just goes to show how good the Mclaren F1 car is with only 627bhp and 479lb/ft of torque.

[Kev946]

Just goes to show how good the Mclaren F1 car is with only 627bhp and 479lb/ft of torque.

 

I'd say the reverse actually. Don't forget these are peak figures. The McLaren does this kind of speed with an enormous engine so the power and torque curve will be much flatter than Rod's 2 litre 4 pot Cossie engine.

 

Not to mention cost...

[sinbad]

Just goes to show how good the Mclaren F1 car is with only 627bhp and 479lb/ft of torque.

 

I'd say the reverse actually. Don't forget these are peak figures. The McLaren does this kind of speed with an enormous engine so the power and torque curve will be much flatter than Rod's 2 litre 4 pot Cossie engine.

 

Not to mention cost...

 

You forgot to mention it has a massive turbo which the Mclaren doesnt have!

 

I dont think money comes into it. You could then go on about the 1400bhp Viper, Saleens and 1000bhp Bugatti and that there not as impressive as they have bigger engines and cost more..

 

 

Im not taking anything away from Rod. To get that kind of speed in any car takes some doing!

[Kev946]

Just goes to show how good the Mclaren F1 car is with only 627bhp and 479lb/ft of torque.

 

I'd say the reverse actually. Don't forget these are peak figures. The McLaren does this kind of speed with an enormous engine so the power and torque curve will be much flatter than Rod's 2 litre 4 pot Cossie engine.

 

Not to mention cost...

 

You forgot to mention it has a massive turbo which the Mclaren doesnt have!

 

I dont think money comes into it. You could then go on about the 1400bhp Viper, Saleens and 1000bhp Bugatti and that there not as impressive as they have bigger engines and cost more..

 

 

Im not taking anything away from Rod. To get that kind of speed in any car takes some doing!

 

No probs. Just referring to the power/torque curve. Everyone quotes peaks. It's the area under the curve that really matters. Rod's achievment is amzing considering a 20 year old car and only a tiny engine.

[GIXXERUK]

Hi

I received a Google Alert on this Topic so came to see what its about.

 

Only 3 things matter on Topspeed runs Power , aerodynamics & gearing forget weight or accleration, remember 100metres gained at the start is only about 1 second when you are travelling at 200mph+.

Doing 200mph in the confines of a 1.7mile straight like Bruntingthorpe is very difficult indeed sounds easy but aint, the difference between a 190 run & passing 200 is enormous. (5% more speed requires at least 15% more Power)

To put it into perspective a Ferrari 360 crawls up to 174mph in that distance & even the mighty AMG Merc with 700/700 only managed a 189.

The world record breaking Ultima managed an impressive 204 & thats shows just how difficult it is.

Gearing must be optimum no point gearing for 200mph if you aint got circa 700bhp it simply wont happen. Optimum gearing means that 200mph must occur around about peak Power or you will be on a Falling Power curve when you require it most.

My own car has done over 30 of these highspeed runs so im beginning to get the hang of it . Can now reach the magic mark within a mile but it takes massive amounts of Power to do that. Lastest Dyno showed 769bhp/644ft-lb & I use 200bhp atw jets of Nitrous pushed at 1500psi so probably around circa 1000bhp, it will run in 2008 .

 

I hope this helps to put it into perspective & I wish you all a Merry Christmas & leave 2 videos of 200+mph in the rain to show how crazy it can get.

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 5969199012

 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... 2234248460

 

very very impressive stuff rod