Paint issues... Suggestions?

[downhuman]

Evening chaps

 

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the finish on my black zed...

 

TBH I haven't done a major machine job on it yet, but have done a quick one - found it hard to achieve correction with some of the light cut options and the more hardcore options seemed to induce more marring.

 

Any suggested combos for black?

 

I'm convinced that, despite good wash technique, the swirls keep appearing too. Is this just characteristic of the Nissan paint? Fiddly to correct and fiddly to keep perfect?

 

Currently using snowfoam, apc soak, 2bwm, various decent shampoos, new mit or grout sponge, depending on area.... front to back washing and dry motions only using plush mf towels.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[keiran D]

have you tried megs 205 or 105, they finish really well and are non diminishing so its easier to fully work. im working on gun metal but mine had light swirling and this combo worked a treat

[ilogikal1]

You'll never eliminate swirls and it's always a losing battle, you just have to try to minimise them really, having said that I've found Nissan paint to be very easy to induce marring (I'm sure the paint is actually just coloured butter rather than paint!) and in my experience you can actually cause a lot of swirls just with a mircofibre (albeit a cheaper one) and not a lot of pressure. Nissan paint is considerably softer than anything else I've worked on.

 

What pads/compounds have you been using? I assume it's by DA rather than rotary too?

 

I tend to use (by DA, on Azure) Lake Country Constant Pressure pads (orange & green) with Menz compounds (203S/PF2500 & 85RE/SF4000) on my Zed, and usually opting for a two stage polish to remove swirls. Although if using a glaze, I could often get away with a single stage using 203S.

 

I've also been playing around with a few products this weekend; FK303 might be of interest to you - it's a glaze but also contains abrasives. When worked by machine it's actually quite good at removing wash marring, gives a great finish, is p*ss easy to work with and as it contains no oils can be used with just about anything. The only slight down side is that it does need to be worked quite a bit - it's not like any other glaze I've come across and certainly isn't a wipe on, wipe off product.

[rtbiscuit]

Nissan paint is really soft, I swear I had a scratch and I was able to almost sqidge the paint back over the scratch

[4RE Leather]

Never use a sponge is a good start.

They hide grit in them.

[Dave-350]

Some of these responses are so untrue. Especially the part about never getting rid of swirls etc, wtf?

 

If you get marring you simply aren't doing it right. 99% of the time it's because you aren't working the polish enough.

 

Come down to me and ill show you how it's done!

[ilogikal1]

Some of these responses are so untrue. Especially the part about never getting rid of swirls etc, wtf?

 

I realise it was the extremely hamfisted way I phrased it, but what I meant was you can't entirely prevent inflicting more swirls over time (you can minimise fresh swirling though) rather than never getting rid of those already inflicted.

 

I also disagree with the 99% of the time it being due to not working the compound. Whilst it is often the issue, the simple fact of the matter is if you're using something too abrasive for the paint you will never get a good finish regardless of how long or hard you work it. Similarly if the compound isn't abrasive enough, you can work it all you like it still won't remove all the marring... and then the longer you work it, the more it dries out, the more marring is inflicted.

Edited June 9, 2013 by ilogikal1

[downhuman]

Never use a sponge is a good start.

They hide grit in them.

 

So I've found grout sponges to be more effective than mits in reducing grit build up - especially when dragged over a grit guard. Using my old Wookie's Fist after 3 months of use it became a hedgerow....

[downhuman]

have you tried megs 205 or 105, they finish really well and are non diminishing so its easier to fully work. im working on gun metal but mine had light swirling and this combo worked a treat

 

Nope, sorry to say I've never used any meg's compounds ever....!

[downhuman]

You'll never eliminate swirls and it's always a losing battle, you just have to try to minimise them really, having said that I've found Nissan paint to be very easy to induce marring (I'm sure the paint is actually just coloured butter rather than paint!) and in my experience you can actually cause a lot of swirls just with a mircofibre (albeit a cheaper one) and not a lot of pressure. Nissan paint is considerably softer than anything else I've worked on.

 

What pads/compounds have you been using? I assume it's by DA rather than rotary too?

 

I tend to use (by DA, on Azure) Lake Country Constant Pressure pads (orange & green) with Menz compounds (203S/PF2500 & 85RE/SF4000) on my Zed, and usually opting for a two stage polish to remove swirls. Although if using a glaze, I could often get away with a single stage using 203S.

 

I've also been playing around with a few products this weekend; FK303 might be of interest to you - it's a glaze but also contains abrasives. When worked by machine it's actually quite good at removing wash marring, gives a great finish, is p*ss easy to work with and as it contains no oils can be used with just about anything. The only slight down side is that it does need to be worked quite a bit - it's not like any other glaze I've come across and certainly isn't a wipe on, wipe off product.

Some of these responses are so untrue. Especially the part about never getting rid of swirls etc, wtf?

 

I really it was the extremely hamfisted way I phrased it, but what I meant was you can't entirely prevent inflicting more swirls over time (you can minimise fresh swirling though) rather than never getting rid of those already inflicted.

 

I also disagree with the 99% of the time it being due to not working the compound. Whilst it is often the issue, the simple fact of the matter is if you're using something too abrasive for the paint you will never get a good finish regardless of how long or hard you work it. Similarly if the compound isn't abrasive enough, you can work it all you like it still won't remove all the marring... and then the longer you work it, the more it dries out, the more marring is inflicted.

 

So, I've tried:

 

By DA:

 

-CarPro Fixer on various 3m or waffle pads - awful, induced marring and wouldn't break down

-Optimum Polish - didn't really cut enough - put a nice gloss on the paint but didn't really remove or flatten the RDS' or deeper swirls

-3m PerfectIT Ultrafina III on Blue pad - again, nice gloss, not enough cut.

 

By Rotary:

-3m PerfectIT Ultrafina III on Blue pad - similar results to above.

 

Reason for using the all in one polishes with rapidly diminishing abrasives really down to lack of time....

 

I guess I need to dedicate a whole day or two doing the three step process with my rotary and see what happens then....! As in Fast Cut, Extra Fine Compound, Ultrafina.

 

Just expected on soft paint to achieve better results with less effort if I'm honest. My honda red paint on the last car would achieve 90% perfect finish with a AIO compound on rotary or DA. The Nissan paint behaves differently to any other car I've worked on.

 

On my Focus RS I achieved 99% correction and it stayed that way.

 

The Nissan, after achieving maybe 75% finish after the above, seems to swirl so easily it annoys me :S

[ilogikal1]

I have no experience of Fixer or Optimum so I can't offer anything with regards to those. Ultrafina, as you've found, doesn't have a great deal of cut - it's okay for light wash marring, but it won't remove deeper swirls or scratches. You should get a bit more cut from pairing it with the yellow 3M pad, which itself has more cut than the blue pad.

 

I doubt you'll need to use Fast Cut, I would have expected Extra Fine on the yellow pad (by DA) to remove a lot, if not all, the swirls perhaps stepping down to the blue pad. You can should then be able to refine with Ultrafina on a blue pad if you wanted to for that extra gloss.

 

Unfortunately, as already stated above, it's very soft paint so is extremely easy to inflict marring which is partly why I like to use a glaze. I know what you mean though, it can be quite disheartening at times though.

[A9H-RX]

Black is the worst colour for showing imperfections. A extremely good and time consuming 3 stage machine polish will eliminate swirls. But god forbid when you have it washed DO NOT USE old sponges as they will contain small bits of grit or cheap sponges as these are quite abbasive to wash the car as it will bring back the swirls. I work in the body repair and detailing trade so just a bit of experience advice

[keiran D]

105 on orange hex pad, followed by 205 on white. works amazing on zed paint, i won't bother with anything else after using these

[downhuman]

105 on orange hex pad, followed by 205 on white. works amazing on zed paint, i won't bother with anything else after using these

 

What brand pads mate? And rotary of da?