ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Hi all How do you determine of the disks or pads should be replaced now or soon? Please give me some hints to look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Pop the wheel off and then look at the front of the caliper (providing they are Brembos) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 and what am I looking for? Sorry for being a newbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Hi all How do you determine of the disks or pads should be replaced now or soon? Please give me some hints to look for? If you have brakes with the wear indicator then a screeching sound will alert you. some modern cars even have a sensor which throws up a warning light on the dash But even before any warning you will notice fading, a long pedal and even pulling to one side if the wear is uneven your final check is to confirm visually by comparing the thickness of the pads either by glacing through the wheels or taking the wheel out and then the pads. its easy and you can DIY. there willl be guides posted somewhere here. Start with the front first as these wear twice the rate of the rear and are the usual culprits you should also check the rotors as excessive lipping could mean they are worn and need changing too! Out of interest what miles have you done and brakes and pads do you have? finally this might be the time to upgrade the pads or even discs to something more fitting of your novidem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 and what am I looking for? Sorry for being a newbie Nice pic bullet What make is the "to match oil filter" you have? endless too In the center is the vents of the rotors(discs) and the blue pads are sitting on both sides. The part through which the pins are going through are the backing plate of the pads and the layer which is touching the rotor surface is the pad material which is what wears down the thinner it is the more wear it has undergone. in worst cases it wears down to the backing plate For full understanding the yellow stuff it the callipers and these house the piston. The pistons leave in the two bulge you see on the side of the callipers. when you press the brakes . The hyraulics press the pistons on the backing plate of the pads which in turn presses the pad material on the rotor causing friction and you to stop you will need to take out the pins first which hold in place the retaining clips then just pull out the pads. that way you can also see the rotors to inspect any wear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 thanks for this. I will take a look tonight. My garage mentioned that I should have my brakes replaced in 5000 km (2 months for me) And I am just growing curious. I have the Brembos but I bought the car in November 8000kms ago and I do not know and cannot read from the papers of the car had its last service "type III" 15 months ago and 15000 kms ago. I assume the brakes have been looked at at this time. I am thinking of upgrading to "EBC turbo groove" disks and "YellowStuff" pads as I will mainly be using it for work going to customers meaning high speed autobahn driving but I will also go on the Ring quite regularly and I do not want to have the brakes fade 3 kms from the end of a Ring lap. So I am looking into knowing more about my brakes. Is there a visual indicator of pad wear that can be seen without removing the wheel? Or should I wait the the screetching sound and when I hear it I book a time for replacement. Sometimes I now hear a slight screetching when braking and coming to a halt Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 I just went out and felt up my disks/rotors and there is a definite 'lip' on both sides of both of the front disks and on the outside of the rear ones. I also felt like there is no brake disk braking surface on the inside of the rear ones. So it seems the disks should be changed as my mechanic says and I assume that when changing disks it is natural to change pads as well so they wear together. Does anyone have a warning against me going the rout of EBC Turbo groove and yellowstuff - I have come to this conclusion from reading up on brakes on this forum. Please tell me if I am completely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich5259 Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Ask Seb Vettel as apparently he had brake failure today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 Ask Seb Vettel as apparently he had brake failure today I will check that he did not use EBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 thanks for this.no worries I will take a look tonight. good My garage mentioned that I should have my brakes replaced in 5000 km (2 months for me) I don't know if they are following the same nissan service guide as in the Uk or some scandinavian legislation but if the garage recommend a change then i would follow this. And I am just growing curious. Always a good sign I have the Brembos but I bought the car in November 8000kms ago and I do not know and cannot read from the papers of the car had its last service "type III" 15 months ago and 15000 kms ago. I assume the brakes have been looked at at this time. They should be inspected at every service in theory but how they wear comes down to usage or driving attitude. I am thinking of upgrading to "EBC turbo groove" disks and "YellowStuff" pads as I will mainly be using it for work going to customers meaning high speed autobahn driving but I will also go on the Ring quite regularly and I do not want to have the brakes fade 3 kms from the end of a Ring lap. EBC TBG are ok but not any better than the brembo disks. yellow stuff is fine but for autobahn but if you plan to go to the Ring regularly and do lots of laps and drive reasonable times then i will say you need better pads or better still consider a full brake upgrade especially asd you have more power with the novidem So I am looking into knowing more about my brakes. Is there a visual indicator of pad wear that can be seen without removing the wheel? No Or should I wait the the screetching sound and when I hear it I book a time for replacement. Sometimes I now hear a slight screetching when braking and coming to a halt It could be that is getting too thin or even that the rotors are getting too thin. you need to inspect them or just wait and change in 5000kms Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 I just went out and felt up my disks/rotors and there is a definite 'lip' on both sides of both of the front disks and on the outside of the rear ones.well done I also felt like there is no brake disk braking surface on the inside of the rear ones. So it seems the disks should be changed as my mechanic says and I assume that when changing disks it is natural to change pads as well so they wear together. its the best practise to change both at the same time Does anyone have a warning against me going the rout of EBC Turbo groove and yellowstuff - I have come to this conclusion from reading up on brakes on this forum. Please tell me if I am completely wrong. read my last reply. Ask yourself what you are going to be doing and how much you want to spend then i can advice on the best routes for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 Thank you for your responses GT4. what would be the next level up on brakes? Regarding the Ring - I do not plan on driving decent times as I have only driven it in games so far and it would be 6-10 times per year I would go for a few laps - I believe I should spend the first years sessions on getting to know which way the corners turn. But even when driving the ring at moderate speed I expect the wear on brakes to be more than on road driving just because the driving style on track is either acceleration or braking - so the brakes are used much more than on autobahn where I can go for 15 minutes between using the brakes. So, what would you consider the next level up in brakes from the stock Brembos? AP Racing? HKS? please tell me there is something cheaper than those as they look good but very costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanski Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Dont bother with a mechanic you can do this yourself if they are worn - they are easy to do. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23365 On another note - the inner pads tend to go before the outer - especially the rears - they get to a low level and then just go - no warning, nothing dangerous they just crack. Of course the rears will outlive the fronts by miles. I replaced my factory pads with Mintex from Brakes International - they cost peanuts, a lot of forum members have gone for performance pads which apparently dont dust as much as the stock ones and of course better performance against brake fade etc etc but I was happy with my Mintex ones. Dont forget its not just the brakes that help stop the car make sure you have decent tyres on too with plenty of tread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 I have new Falkens 452 on - 275/35-19 on the rear and 245/35-19 on the front. I guess to find out if my brakes are better than my tyres is to try to see how easy it is to activate the ABS on a dry road. I have tried a few times and have not been able to activate the ABS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 according to BM you shouldn't use Yellow stuff pads with anything other than a plain disc. they aren't designed for grooved or drilled discs. ferodo DS2500 are a popular choice and i think there is a version above that as well if you want to be more track focused. the Dixcel setup is meant to be very good if you have more to spend. and possibly if your FI a more suitable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 Thomas, this is a guide i posted a while ago wrt brakes upgrade: Stage 1: replacement pads and disc(front only or front & rear) +/- steel lines +/- RBF eg DBA 4000 0r 4000xs with Ferodo or PF pads (up to 10-20% improvement over Brembo) Stage 2: 2 peice OEM sized disc/pads replacement (front only)eg DBA 5000 or PF + steel lines + RBF( better pedal feel and resistance to boiling) and up 20-30% improvement over Brembo Stage 3:OEM sized 2 piece disc/pad replacement (front and rear) + RBF + steel lines eg Stoptech aerorotors (up to 40-50% over Brembo but better fade resistance Stage 4 (which is the only real option for serious track work ) a- front BBK only +/_ uprated OEM sized rear discs and uprated pads b- Front and rear BBK, for the perfect match Based on your last response i would say invest on a BBK as it will be cheaper in the long run and as you improve you will go quicker. i found that the big brands cost a lot and went for an unknown brand at the time but i have been nore than very satisfied with the result 1yr on now i went for Ksports big brake kit and they are cheaper now. you can do a stage 4 a only and that will be fine. the best combination is with the performance friction 01 pads. But if you dont want dust then get the ferodo Ds2500 pads. If these are too much for you then just get brembo pads and ferformance friction pads or pagid yellow(ps29 pads) if they make them in OEM size. It will be nice to change your brake fliud to a racing type to resist boiling Good tyres are essential too the gripier the tyre the more the brakes work hence wear Falkens are ok but i would not use them seriously on the Ring. you need MPS 2, pirreli p zero, continental contisport 3 etc or have a set of track tyres on the side eg toto R888 MPS cups, Kumho V700 etc see links for info on my brakes and where to get them. they are half the price i paid : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25910 http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=267&loc=2 http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=209&loc=4 Thank you for your responses GT4. what would be the next level up on brakes? Regarding the Ring - I do not plan on driving decent times as I have only driven it in games so far and it would be 6-10 times per year I would go for a few laps - I believe I should spend the first years sessions on getting to know which way the corners turn. But even when driving the ring at moderate speed I expect the wear on brakes to be more than on road driving just because the driving style on track is either acceleration or braking - so the brakes are used much more than on autobahn where I can go for 15 minutes between using the brakes. So, what would you consider the next level up in brakes from the stock Brembos? AP Racing? HKS? please tell me there is something cheaper than those as they look good but very costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 just out of interest bennett where did you get the % increase in performance over stock brembo data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 according to BM you shouldn't use Yellow stuff pads with anything other than a plain disc. they aren't designed for grooved or drilled discs. Nope, not according to me, but according to EBC themselves. Mechanics at Autofit Ipswich were told by EBC not to fit Yellowstuff to any thing other than a plain disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 according to BM you shouldn't use Yellow stuff pads with anything other than a plain disc. they aren't designed for grooved or drilled discs. Nope, not according to me, but according to EBC themselves. Mechanics at Autofit Ipswich were told by EBC not to fit Yellowstuff to any thing other than a plain disc. thanks for filling in the gaps, i remembered you mentioning it, but couldn't remember all the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 just out of interest bennett where did you get the % increase in performance over stock brembo data? Rich, these are summed up after extensive research and collating material from several sources and are only a guide performance increase..................disclaimer time a la Rich As i mentioned, i wanted a BBk but was not happy to pay premium prices for nothing but brand name. eg K sports are a copy of AP racing with afew tweeks onn calliper design to avoid TM infringment but the pads. disc are interchangeable even the piston seal. and the samewith pagid an ferodo items You should focus on the step by step upgrade to achieve your suited goal instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 In your thread about your fitting of the K+sport BBK you say it is TÃœV approved. This makes me very very happy as this kit looks very good. what is the biggest kit that would fit 18" wheels? their website is a bit weird - is a kit for both front and rear brakes? I might call them tomorrow cheers Thomas Thomas, this is a guide i posted a while ago wrt brakes upgrade: Stage 1: replacement pads and disc(front only or front & rear) +/- steel lines +/- RBF eg DBA 4000 0r 4000xs with Ferodo or PF pads (up to 10-20% improvement over Brembo) Stage 2: 2 peice OEM sized disc/pads replacement (front only)eg DBA 5000 or PF + steel lines + RBF( better pedal feel and resistance to boiling) and up 20-30% improvement over Brembo Stage 3:OEM sized 2 piece disc/pad replacement (front and rear) + RBF + steel lines eg Stoptech aerorotors (up to 40-50% over Brembo but better fade resistance Stage 4 (which is the only real option for serious track work ) a- front BBK only +/_ uprated OEM sized rear discs and uprated pads b- Front and rear BBK, for the perfect match Based on your last response i would say invest on a BBK as it will be cheaper in the long run and as you improve you will go quicker. i found that the big brands cost a lot and went for an unknown brand at the time but i have been nore than very satisfied with the result 1yr on now i went for Ksports big brake kit and they are cheaper now. you can do a stage 4 a only and that will be fine. the best combination is with the performance friction 01 pads. But if you dont want dust then get the ferodo Ds2500 pads. If these are too much for you then just get brembo pads and ferformance friction pads or pagid yellow(ps29 pads) if they make them in OEM size. It will be nice to change your brake fliud to a racing type to resist boiling Good tyres are essential too the gripier the tyre the more the brakes work hence wear Falkens are ok but i would not use them seriously on the Ring. you need MPS 2, pirreli p zero, continental contisport 3 etc or have a set of track tyres on the side eg toto R888 MPS cups, Kumho V700 etc see links for info on my brakes and where to get them. they are half the price i paid : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25910 http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=267&loc=2 http://www.ksport.co.uk/order.asp?id=209&loc=4 Thank you for your responses GT4. what would be the next level up on brakes? Regarding the Ring - I do not plan on driving decent times as I have only driven it in games so far and it would be 6-10 times per year I would go for a few laps - I believe I should spend the first years sessions on getting to know which way the corners turn. But even when driving the ring at moderate speed I expect the wear on brakes to be more than on road driving just because the driving style on track is either acceleration or braking - so the brakes are used much more than on autobahn where I can go for 15 minutes between using the brakes. So, what would you consider the next level up in brakes from the stock Brembos? AP Racing? HKS? please tell me there is something cheaper than those as they look good but very costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 In your thread about your fitting of the K+sport BBK you say it is TÃœV approved. This makes me very very happy as this kit looks very good. what is the biggest kit that would fit 18" wheels? their website is a bit weird - is a kit for both front and rear brakes? I might call them tomorrow cheers Thomas This kit was underated in the past but now alot of teams use it in time attack series in the Uk and it is getting always popular in the track the crowd because of the competitive pricing I normally do 4-5 laps stints in the Ring and it does not fade at all also very good from cold on normal road driving and hardly sqeals at all I reckon with the Rays light weight alloy wheels the you should go 8 pot 356mm in front and 6 pot 330mm disk in the rear with performance friction pads or ferodo ds2500 if you are fussy about brake dust!! my wheels are black so it's not a problem The street pads are not good for the track but perfect on fast road driving. The sports pad are very good ( apparently made by ferodo) i used this lasy May in the Ring with no fade but when it gets to hot it imprints on the disks and causes vibrations. you can skim them off but thats an additional cost you don't need Their own race pads are very good but only for track use there is nio bite from cold so you will crash iof you use it for road driving If you are really interested call me i may be able to get discount price for you as i know them quite well now. If i can't then i would put you in touch with CS who is a trader here and has an account with them see pm with my number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 rear pads are defo worth checking. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=17087&hilit=pads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasSoerensen Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 This is what a used brake pad and disc look like after you have worn away all the padding and you start braking by having metal pushing against metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 That looks horrible Thomas It is a big wonder how you went this far before noticing You got the Dixcel setup now. How do you find them? Used it on the track yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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