.:Bullen:. Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hi guys I've got a low mounted twin turbo and was looking to fit a oil cooler. At the minute the oil return is out the turbos into a drain sump, then sucked back up into a scavenge pump before going back into sump pan. My question is can I fit a oil cooler directly after the scavenge pump and then return it back into the sump? Thus eliminating the need for sandwich plates and extra fittings etc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OllyB Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I'd say you could but I'd worry about the amount of oil actually flowing through that part of the system. Will it be enough to have an effect on the overall oil temp? Edited February 21, 2016 by OllyB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich260 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 You may also want to think about the thermostatic element of a cooler. If you plum it in way you suggest then you won't have any control of when the cooler opens/closes, it would just be flowing through all the time. I would suggest using a thermostatic sandwich plate that will only open fully when the oil reaches temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I wouldn't be fitting a cooler to a supply that just fed by a scavenge pump, apart for it being likely to pick up air which wont help things, I doubt the pressure/flow rate would be enough to be reliable, As said you will also need a thermostat to control temperature. Are you seeing high oil temps? I would have thought that having a sump/tank for turbo drain would be providing some cooling effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:Bullen:. Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 To be honest I haven't plumbed in a gauge yet to see I was just thinking of eliminating high temps if I track it. But the drain tank from the turbos is mounted just above the front brace so should be getting cooled and help. I did think about the themo plate, but didn't know best route for plumbing it in. I think first step is get a gauge sorted and check what temps I have Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Yes definitely fit an oil temp gauge, as you could be well within reasonable temps, and don't forget oil that's too cool is just as bad as too hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:Bullen:. Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Thanks appreciate the help, also you might know how accurate is the water temp oem gauge? It never goes above half normal running temp but I'm paranoid after putting so much work into the build for it to cook itself 😂 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Like most OEM water temp gauges they tend to be an approximation of the actual temp IE the mid position covers quite a wide temp range, to avoid panicking your average driver, I would always fit a decent aftermarket gauge/sender, especially if going FI, but the oil temp would be my first priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The OEM water gauge should be /accurate/reliable and what really matters is the delta as a few degrees off doesn't matter. Take the advice from Ricky and the rest and invest in an oil temp gauge. You should be fine on DD use but I can bet you being turbo'd will see high temps in track. A thermostatic 19 row oil cooler is usually adequate for road and track use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:Bullen:. Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 It's going to be the next purchase, Would you recommend plumbing in the oil cooler same as normal fit a thermo sandwich plate. Then run the oil cooler from that ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT4 Zed Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Don't get what you mean mate but it's easy. You need to do some searching/reading to get it clear in your mind or get someone to help you fitting this. A thermostatic sandwich plate sits between engine and the oil filter. It has 2 ports. 1 controlled by the thermostat with allows oil to go to your cooler or not depending on the oil temp. The filter still works as normal as it recieves oil via the central hollow bolt. Some sandwich plates have a 1/8npt port or 2 where you can put the oil temp sensor. You can also tap a port into the oil pan or sump spacer (AAM spacer comes with port for this) or tee off the pressure side between the oil pressure sender and engine. There is debate about the best place to put the oil temp sensor but I think what matters is the delta. You can even put 2 sensors if you are a stickler. One before and one after your cooler to see its efficiency. My oil temp sensor is teed off the pressure side as I feel that the temp the rotating parts are seeing directly and that where the oil feed for the supercharger or turbo comes from so you know they are cooled. I'll put up some parts link and DIY so explain better. If you are in the midlands then send me a PM and I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I dont know what scavenge pump your using but i have my cooler between the turbo drain and the scavenge pump to protect the pump from hi temps as the pump seems to be a weak point in low mount/rear mount setups also since you are cooling after the turbo's you don't need to worry about thermostatic control as it's returning to the sump or am i getting confused here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I dont know what scavenge pump your using but i have my cooler between the turbo drain and the scavenge pump to protect the pump from hi temps as the pump seems to be a weak point in low mount/rear mount setups also since you are cooling after the turbo's you don't need to worry about thermostatic control as it's returning to the sump or am i getting confused here ? I presume you have a scavenge tank? I guess its OK but if the cooler is too efficient it will over cool the oil which is not good, what about when its sucking air when its pulling more than the turbo supply, wouldn't have thought frothing is a good idea. What sort of oil temps are you seeing, and where are they measured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 no i don't have a scavenge tank not enough room really as for frothing you will get this with or without a cooler unless you have some kind of level monitor on the sump to control the scavenge pump but my frothing has been reduced since i put in the cooler as the air bubbles seem to separate out from the oil in the cooler from what i have seen in the clear return pipe from the scavenge pump i get relatively clear oil then pockets of air returning to the tank i measure my oil temp at the oil filter housing just before the feed pipe to the turbo and i see 60-90 Deg C when hot i find it hard to believe that over cooling the oil returning from the turbo's alone will have any detrimental effect on the system but what do i know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) From experience with other cars running big turbos, 60-90c at the oil filter housing is too cool, apart from the temp usually showing hotter at the filter due to the oil gallery routing IE close to the head, the sump temps will normally be lower than this, I would remove the cooler for now,(you may get away with it in summer, but IMO you really need some form of cooling temp control) as you should be and need to see oil temps of around 100c in order to burn off water vapor and other contaminate acid compounds, running lower will keep all these in suspension, but don't take my word for it, have a read up on oil temps and properties. Edited February 21, 2016 by Tricky-Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 From experience with other cars running big turbos, 60-90c at the oil filter housing is too cool, apart from the temp usually showing hotter at the filter due to the oil gallery routing IE close to the head, the sump temps will normally be lower than this, I would remove the cooler for now,(you may get away with it in summer, but IMO you really need some form of cooling temp control) as you should be and need to see oil temps of around 100c in order to burn off water vapor and other contaminate acid compounds, running lower will keep all these in suspension, but don't take my word for it, have a read up on oil temps and properties. it's a rear mount with a standalone oil system so no where near the engine the oil temp is controlled by a fan in front of the cooler and it's easier to change the 2L of oil in the tank to remove contaminants than replace the pump because it got cooked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 it's a rear mount with a standalone oil system so no where near the engine the oil temp is controlled by a fan in front of the cooler and it's easier to change the 2L of oil in the tank to remove contaminants than replace the pump because it got cooked Doh! why didn't you say so to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy10v Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Hi guys I've got a low mounted twin turbo and was looking to fit a oil cooler. At the minute the oil return is out the turbos into a drain sump, then sucked back up into a scavenge pump before going back into sump pan. My question is can I fit a oil cooler directly after the scavenge pump and then return it back into the sump? Thus eliminating the need for sandwich plates and extra fittings etc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thermostatic sandwich plate with an oil cooler is probably the easiest, if you get one with a sensor port its also easy to add an oil temp gauge. You can get 71, 85 and 93 degree thermostats for the Mishimoto sandwich plates. You can also restrict air flow through the oil cooler if you find its over cooling. Turbos can drive oil temperatures up on track very quickly. A thermostatic oil cooler is cheap insurance, plus you can spend more time on boost! Oil cooler and lines will add another half litre or so of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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