Dicky Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Just removed it and started the clean. The valve plate is closed at the moment and I would like to move it a little to clean the point at which it closes. Two questions.... 1) If I move the valve plate manually out the way then move it back to closed position can I damage any internal gearing between the valve plate and the motor 2) in moving the valve plate am I going to get horrible problems when calibrating on completion All advice from veterans most welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaveney Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If it helps I cleaned my one when I had the inlet off and did not know about any of this . Car runs fine so far Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well since I couldn't wait any longer for a fellow TB explorer to answer I decided to just go for it as you can't successfully clean the area that really needs cleaning without moving the throttle plate. Found that the plate is spring loaded so gently pushed it out the way then cleaned and polished the area lying under the valve plate when it's closed. I've now reassembled everything and about to carry out the calibration procedures. The guys who do this every day must be laughing their c--k's off at my trepidation but it's a bit worrying for beginners who don't know what to expect or how to recover should something go tits up. Anyway here goes cos I'm going in! Now let me think , was it pedal to the floor 6 times first or was it switch on then off, kick the front tyre ,then pedal to the floor....buggar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 If it helps I cleaned my one when I had the inlet off and did not know about any of this . Car runs fine so far Alan Well done Alan hope mine goes as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well what was all the fuss about. T. B. cleaned, calibrations done and everything works, job done. I must have done something wrong. Watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 During the TB clean I noticed the intake to the plenum looked a little dirty as well so is there any benifit in cleaning this out as well other than just knowing its clean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There has been plenty of rubbish sprouted on this forum about moving the butterfly valve, so I understand your hesitation. As you found out on your own, there is nothing to worry about, you can move it around all you like and it'll spring back Regarding the plenum, there may be a slight benefit from cleaning it, but to be honest, it's such a ball ache that its not worth it. Too many hoses to disconnect and one of them, the one at the back, is a real pain in the ass to get back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooch Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Now I don't know what to believe! I've cleaned other throttle bodies and had no problems so I guess this issue was a bit overblown. Will still steer clear though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinjj Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Its only my opinion.... but i don't think the TB issue is such a major concern with DE engines (prior 2007), doing a Google you will find that 99% (wild guess) of corrupt ECU issues causing high idle and surging after TB cleaning are 2007+ (HR engines), again only my opinion but hazarding a guess i would say this is because of the fact that the dual intake HR engines have two throttle bodies and these have to be in sync with each other. For zeds 2007+ the corrupt ECU is not a rare occurrence if the correct procedure for cleaning is not followed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longsh07 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I asked Mark at Abbey Motorsport about all this business with the throttle. From what I remember, the throttle position is monitored by the ECU at all times (even when the car is off). It has two permanent lives and earths. Because of this moving the valve upsets the sensor and actually burns out the ECU. If this happens you'll have to have the ECU repaired as resetting position will make no difference. With that said, to avoid this disconnect either the battery (what I did when cleaning mine), the throttle sensors, or the ECU. Once that's done your all good to clean it Edited September 16, 2014 by longsh07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Well I did disconnect the battery and of course the throttle motor, but as KyleR suggests above so long as your careful moving the valve plate is no problem as it springs back to exactly the same position. By the way the benefits of doing this clean are definitely noticeable. The car feels more responsive, seems smoother and pulls harder Well worth the the effort. It's an easy job and can be done in an hr or so. It took me longer cos I fiddled on a bit to much (retired you know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Found this on You Tube regarding TB cleaning. You may have seen it but for the less well informed like myself I've posted it for those about to do the job. One of my fears was weather to move the throttle plate or not, I used my finger but the video suggests an alternative and possibly safer method. Hope the link works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Must admit I removed and cleaned my throttle body without disconnecting the battery and never had a problem, I really cant see the TPS being monitored when the ignition is off...what would it achieve? I suspect that the problems reported may arise from the throttle body being cleaned and because of the build up being removed, returning to a slightly different position, and so needing resetting...so a case of some cause problems and some don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longsh07 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Must admit I removed and cleaned my throttle body without disconnecting the battery and never had a problem, I really cant see the TPS being monitored when the ignition is off...what would it achieve? I suspect that the problems reported may arise from the throttle body being cleaned and because of the build up being removed, returning to a slightly different position, and so needing resetting...so a case of some cause problems and some don't. If you removed it from the car then you would have disconnected the sensors correct? If that's the case then your fine as Mark said you only need to remove either the battery, ECU or sensors to prevent damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) Surly thats all anyone would do to clean the TB, you need to remove it to achieve this therefore you would normally either disconnect the single plug to the throttle which houses the stepper motor and sensors, and /or disconnect the battery, so my question would be how are people having so many problems after cleaning the throttle...and the answer can only be that in cleaning the resulting removal of debris is allowing the throttle plate to return to a position not previously monitored by the stepper motor/sensor/limit switch and so needing to relearn the closed position again. If the stepper motor/sensor etc was monitored full time surly a CEL would be thrown on every disconnection. Edited September 21, 2014 by Tricky-Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longsh07 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Surly thats all anyone would do to clean the TB, you need to remove it to achieve this therefore you would normally either disconnect the single plug to the throttle which houses the stepper motor and sensors, and /or disconnect the battery, so my question would be how are people having so many problems after cleaning the throttle...and the answer can only be that in cleaning the resulting removal of debris is allowing the throttle plate to return to a position not previously monitored by the stepper motor/sensor/limit switch and so needing to relearn the closed position again. If the stepper motor/sensor etc was monitored full time surly a CEL would be thrown on every disconnection. Im just passing on what Mark at Abbey told me when I asked about it. When I cleaned mine I was stuck in my works car park with a car that would stall repeatedly, limited tools and light going down fast. I left it all attached to the car but just disconnected the battery then pulled off the intake tube. Cleaned one side of the plate then opened the throttle by hand and cleaned around the edges of the plate/body. Put it back together and no problems since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 After having a quick squint at the relevant section of the manual, it appears that the pedal re learn procedure is actually different and separate from the TPS learning, and the engine must first be up to normal temp for the TPS side to work, and unless the TPS relearn is done correctly then idle air learning will not automatically take place, add to this any problems with air leaks in the intake and/or PCV valve problems will compound things and make the whole process not work, so its easy to see why some people have had such problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicky Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 What I can't get my head around is why the clean makes such a huge differance (did on mine anyway). I couldn't say mine was that dirty, certainly not full of crud? There was a small amount of crud just under the throttle plate at the closed position but not enough to cause closed position probs. Anyway the differance it's made to the drive is huge. How cleaning a small amount of crud off can make such a differance on what must be at least a 3" apature is beyond me, unless it causes turbulence to the air flow and hence reduced performance? Anyone know why the clean has such an affect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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