Uprev

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

just a quick reply to a few questions;

 

We call the 350z a self learn ecu ; it works it 2 ways

 

1 IGNITION; the car runs 2 maps , low det and high det maps , the high dett map uses a less advanced (agressive) map. When you delete the self learn ,the car reverts to the high det map then starts feeding timing in ,listening to the det sensors to listen for the dreaded tingle. after a short time the car will be running full timing , they can even add a degree or two here and there we have found most on part throttle.

 

2 FUEL again the car runs 2 maps 1, closed loop this is called the trim map , the car uses the lambda reading to run the car at the correct fuelling 2,open loop i.e full throttle and there about , the numbers in the map will add the correct amount fuel you want i.e no closed loop. You can if needed delete the closed loop , only normalyed used on race cars but we find using this map and a tuned figure helps part throttle driving especially with turbo powered car.

 

when we say self learn we mean the car can play with the fuelling and ignition maps itself to obtain the best/safest performance. Very smart ecu just like 350 owners

 

Mark

[Tricky-Ricky]

Thanks for the info, so in essence no different to most ECUs then, much the same as my Supra and quite a lot of others, so i guess its the UK ECU thats the true self learner, in that it can live adjust in response to the wideband lambdas, throughout the load/RPM range,cross referenced with the default maps, similar to the new VWs ect.

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

far more superior than an old Supra ECU I feel.

 

From 06/2006 all 350 z have wide band ecu,s , but all 350z has the ability to tune the ignition timing live.

 

 

Mark

[gazhull8474]

How much do you charge for a remap or an ECU as looking to get it done now that i have installed an exhaust and induction kit.

[Tricky-Ricky]

far more superior than an old Supra ECU I feel.

 

From 06/2006 all 350 z have wide band ecu,s , but all 350z has the ability to tune the ignition timing live.

 

 

Mark

 

 

Fail to see why, as the supra ECU has the same dual maps for fuelling and timing, for closed loop and on boost, plus default timing/fuelling map for det detection and the VVTI obviously has cam advance map and FBW throttle, and runs both MAP and MFA, can hardly call that inferior, is there anything more to the Jspec ECU?

 

Anyway my point was that the 350Z ECU is not as advanced as i was led to believe, at least the JDM version, and if i understand you right, the later JDM is the same as the UK spec ECU, so in that case i guess its not accessible via the Up rev route?

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Tricky, not being funny but modern ECU,s have moved on so much from say 8/10 years ago , look at our TV,s 10 years ago the TV,s was massive boxes , nowdays so much more compact better pictures, we could discuss merits off ECU,s for ever.

 

I feel the latest spec ECU fitted to the Z are pretty awesome , we can tune ever ECU fitted to a VQ engine and even the new GTR can now be tuned. We can even add a boost control map to the 350Z ecu,s if we need to.

 

The early narrow band ecu,s still closed loop very well as they are tuning around the lambda 1 settings which is okay, the later cars you can tune from 10.0 to 17.0 afr due to the wide band lambda which are fitted.

 

Mark

[Tricky-Ricky]

OK thanks, just trying to get more info thats all, perhaps you can point me to somewhere that has detailed info and spec for the 350 ECU?

I have also been to the Uprev site but the software is licenced so i cannot go into it to see whats what, without a purchase.

[wizard]

Mark,

 

1) Can you provide a little more information about this self-learning thing that the ECU does? I am led to believe that the more you drive the car after a tuning map, the better the car will perform over time?

 

2) Have you used uprev with forced induction on the VQ35DE yet? I'm interested in knowing what the limitations are with FI applications on the stock ecu and where getting an aftermarket will be beneficial?

 

Thanks

[MattG]

just a quick reply to a few questions;

 

We call the 350z a self learn ecu ; it works it 2 ways

 

1 IGNITION; the car runs 2 maps , low det and high det maps , the high dett map uses a less advanced (agressive) map. When you delete the self learn ,the car reverts to the high det map then starts feeding timing in ,listening to the det sensors to listen for the dreaded tingle. after a short time the car will be running full timing , they can even add a degree or two here and there we have found most on part throttle.

 

2 FUEL again the car runs 2 maps 1, closed loop this is called the trim map , the car uses the lambda reading to run the car at the correct fuelling 2,open loop i.e full throttle and there about , the numbers in the map will add the correct amount fuel you want i.e no closed loop. You can if needed delete the closed loop , only normalyed used on race cars but we find using this map and a tuned figure helps part throttle driving especially with turbo powered car.

 

when we say self learn we mean the car can play with the fuelling and ignition maps itself to obtain the best/safest performance. Very smart ecu just like 350 owners

 

Mark

 

Great post Mark, it's nice to know a bit more about how the ECU works. Would it be fair to sumarise it as follows?

 

Timing: Full time closed loop using knock sensor.

 

Fuel:

Pre 06 - Closed Loop Part throttle, Open Loop Full throttle.

Post 06 - Full time closed loop using wideband.

 

So when you tune the cars are you only changing the open loop map for the fueling and leaving the closed loop fueling and ignition alone? Or are you able to alter the "rules" for the closed loop stuff so the ECU takes a more aggressive stance when doing it's own thing?

 

2) Have you used uprev with forced induction on the VQ35DE yet? I'm interested in knowing what the limitations are with FI applications on the stock ecu and where getting an aftermarket will be beneficial?

 

Thanks

 

I know RSTuning have done one with a supercharger that worked well. I think the only limitation is that the stock MAP sensor will only read up to a certain pressure, so if you want more boost than that you need an upgraded MAP sensor. Whether or not the stock ECU would be happy with that I don't know. Perhaps that is the cut off point for needing a full replacement ECU? That said a new ECU would be chump change compared to the cost of the built engine needed at that boost level!

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

MattG,

 

all cars have closed loop and open loop maps , just the all the UK cars and from 6 month 2005 all other cars had wide bands fitted,this makes the car faster responding while on closed loop.

 

closed loop map works with the open loop map , the open loop map has to be nearly spot with regards the correct fuelling otherwise the closed loop map has to work to hard to trim the fuel.

 

Open loop is normally full throttle and over 5000rpm at part throttle.

 

These engines dont have MAP sensors they have MAF sensors or air flow meters. We can supply a air flow meter to allow us to tune to approx 650bhp @ the flywheel.

 

 

hope that is a little more easy to understand.

 

Mark

[Rogan]

is there much gain to be had with a remapped ECU on a VQ engine when the only modifications are a Nismo induction kit? and are the map's able to be updated with further modications? or do they learn themselves?

[Dblock]

Could someone explain to me as im not the brightest what an open loop and a closed loop map are?

[Chris`I]

Could someone explain to me as im not the brightest what an open loop and a closed loop map are?

AFAIK, closed loop is when it uses the O2 sensors in the exhaust to judge the AFR and adjusts fueling to try and hit the target AFR. Open loop is when it doesnt use the sensors to adjust it, either because the cats arent up to temp (so wont get a proper reading from the O2 sensors) or at WOT, here I beleive it uses a lookup table to guess what fueling it should use. As I say, thats how I understand it, sure Abbey will correct me if I'm wrong!

[Dblock]

Could someone explain to me as im not the brightest what an open loop and a closed loop map are?

AFAIK, closed loop is when it uses the O2 sensors in the exhaust to judge the AFR and adjusts fueling to try and hit the target AFR. Open loop is when it doesnt use the sensors to adjust it, either because the cats arent up to temp (so wont get a proper reading from the O2 sensors) or at WOT, here I beleive it uses a lookup table to guess what fueling it should use. As I say, thats how I understand it, sure Abbey will correct me if I'm wrong!

 

Ahh ok Chris thanks. The ecu's must have to work pretty fast then.

[bodyboarder]

Right i am proper confused ..... dont have a zed yet but looking to buy very soon. Would it be worth getting the 276 or 296 engine bearing in mind i want it mapped ? Would i be able to gain the 20bhp difference if i went for the 276 ? and whats the expected bhp/ftlb of a 276 with say a cat back exhaust, filter and remap ? And the same on a 296 what could be expected ? Sorry

[cookiemonster]

Right i am proper confused ..... dont have a zed yet but looking to buy very soon. Would it be worth getting the 276 or 296 engine bearing in mind i want it mapped ? Would i be able to gain the 20bhp difference if i went for the 276 ? and whats the expected bhp/ftlb of a 276 with say a cat back exhaust, filter and remap ? And the same on a 296 what could be expected ? Sorry

 

 

Really depends on your budget, if you can afford the newer model i would say get it. The cars pretty well tuned from standard so the gains you will make are minimal, more importantly the uprev makes the car much more "driveable" by giving 100% WOT when you want it and provides a smoother power curve on the dyno. Remember all cars will start with different figures from factory, so were one car may make a 20bhp increase another might only make 10, all cars are different.

 

Im pretty sure if you look in Abbeys threads they have a list of maps with different mods on.

 

or look here for an example of 3FIDDYZ results

 

http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=114&t=32613&start=30

[bodyboarder]

Thanks for that