andrew.pacey Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hi All, Thanks to everyone that has replied so far. Update - the dealer called a couple of weeks back to say that they were going to 'fix' all of the paintwork problems. I asked how they would do this, and they said they were taking it to a bodyshop to have everything correctly fixed. Good news, or so I thought. They called last Thursday to say the car was ready. Additionally they had fixed the passenger window (slow opening) and exhaust (was really loud on the day I took it back - apparently it had moved). They had resprayed the drivers wing, bonnet, roof and rear bumper. Here are the results... Above: rear bumper Above: bonnet left side Above: bonnet right side Above: Wing Above: Wing Above: Wing Above: Tailgate - all they have done here is flatted down a bit Above: scratches on passenger wing that were not there before Above: General sloppiness OK - I don't think I need to say what is wrong, the pictures speak for themselves. An absolutely shocking job in my opinion. I've spoken to consumer direct, and explained that I now want a refund. They've advised me to write to the dealer, and that if I want a refund, I must stop driving the car, as that in itself is confirmation that I am happy with it. So, I've put it all in writing with pictures, stated the sales of goods act etc etc, and took the car back to the dealer on Friday. I now await a response. I gave them a copy of the letter but have also posted one recorded delivery. I've got to give them 10 days to respond. I've spoken to Nissan GB and they don't care. Basically said it is between me and the dealer. I've since worked out that the car wasn't "Nissan Used Approved" as they only gave me 3 months warranty - apparently it would be 12 if the vehicle were used approved? However, the other vehicles they have listed for sale at the moment are all used approved. What else can I do? I am absolutely fuming. They now have my car, and my money! Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Fingers crossed for a satisfactory result for you Andy. The work carried out is absolutely shocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Gutted for you Andrew - time to visit your local trading standards office to see how you stand and see if the supplying garage has had similar complaints. Looking at the so called remedial work it could have been done by same outfit that made a mess of the car before you bought it. 'Not fit for purpose' also comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIXXERUK Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 That repair - totally unacceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 you've done the right thing (consumer direct IS trading standards by the way). It's just a matter of sitting tight now and fingers crossed! Make sure you keep in touch with consumer direct and keep them informed and ask for advice from them throughout the process. This garage won't won't to be badgered by you or them so just keep chipping away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just had a call from the dealer principle of the dealership where I purchased the car. Basically saying we're sorry you're not happy, we will be writing a response, but unfortunately they will be refusing a refund. Went on to say that the car is in an acceptable condition at the time of purchase. Recognises the paint job isn't a good one, and would be willing to have that mutually rectified. Said basically that their go at correcting the defects was a "gesture of goodwill" - however - that terminology wasn't used when they called me to book the car in - which in my mind is an admission that they recognised the paintwork was not of an acceptable standard. I stated that I didn't feel talking about it over the telephone was helping as we clearly had differing opinions. He even stated during the conversation that this is an "argument that I wouldn't win" and that in his experience matters like this rarely end in a refund, and that it would take a very long time to resolve. I stated that I didn't return the car lightheartedly; and realise that it may well take a long time to resolve; however that shouldn't change my rights as a customer. He then went on to state that they accept no liability whatsoever for the car being stored on their property, but they would not be charging me for it. It was clear that bit was all being read from a script. Still not happy. Interesting to note that he commented that he also drove a 350Z. Wonder how happy he would be if it was HIS car. I absolutely cannot get over the attitude. It's horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Oh...forgot to say. He also stated that it was my responsibility to ensure the vehicle was free from defects. The order form I signed actually says "The purchaser(s) is/are aware that the vehicle was first registered as shown in the details provided above and is/are advised to inspect the vehicle for defects. However, the purchaser(s) is/are warned that if the vehicle is inspected for defects whether by the purchaser(s) or by someone on their behalf, defects which such an examination ought to have revealed will not later on be the responsibility of the seller". So, the way I read that is - you are advised to have the vehicle inspected, but if you do and any defects are shown up, these aren't the responsibility of the seller. Not that all defects are my responsibility once the form is signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Once again a dealer not being fair. It really is awful but I would keep pushing. There have been so many cars on here that have had issues you would think would be resolved without any argument but which have turned into protracted battles. Fortunately many have had good outcomes. Certainly worth presevering with this, totally unnacceptable IMO. I will be going to Nissan customer services on Friday if my little problem isnt resolved and although I know they arent very helpful I will certainly give it a good go. Really feel for you on this one bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 are you in the RAC or the AA. I would be asking for their legal department for advice on this. Also try something like watchdog in autoexpress magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 I have RAC cover through my bank. I didn't realise the AA / RAC provided legal advice as part of their breakdown cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zummertor Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 What a s£$%^ position to be in, feel for you. You are right your phone call was reading a script, but I guess the guy tried to be "human" but his companies legal advisors have clearly got to the letter and what happens. My opinion in these types of matters is that it is unlikely that a win really exists for the customer as the item is "used" and was bought as such, usually as you've found the small print is extensive in who it protects (not the customer). At some point I fear you are unfortunately going to have to negotiate a deal with them for full and complete settlement. The question I think you'll have is what is fair to you and what this dealer will accept. They must know that the forums reach a sizeable percentage of buyers and service buyers but not enough to put them off, that said in other areas determiend customers have had success in using forums and other sites to gain some bargaining ground with a seller / company, a very awkward route to go down. Not sure what I'd do in your shoes but knowing you like the car it seems one alternative is to swap it for something else they have in their group that is similar, the only way is to talk with someone really senior who has all the say, that way they keep your money and you get a Zed you are happy with, I suspect they'll have you sign some form of waiver to complete this. They will of course be able to shift the Zed on elsewhere when they have rectified the points they feel are needed to do so. Another alternative is to hold on and be tough but the guy is probably right sadly in saying it is unlikely you'll win and the "value" of swap/ trade slips overtime and plus you have the hassle / stress in the meantime. As said, feel terrible for you but am trying to be a realist to help you get a speedy and as close to fair settlement that you can. All this is IMO and suspect others may not agree but please take the comments as intended in good faith. Best of luck !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 I have RAC cover through my bank. I didn't realise the AA / RAC provided legal advice as part of their breakdown cover? certainly used to, worth checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 I have RAC cover through my bank. I didn't realise the AA / RAC provided legal advice as part of their breakdown cover? certainly used to, worth checking I don't think my RAC membership does; however, I've just realised that my bank does - as I have a Barclays Additions Plus account. Thanks for pointing me in that direction - they have a 24hour legal helpline so I'll give them a call tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I've put some handy phone numbers up for you Andrew. See the link, Hope it helps your case http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic ... adb53cfa12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Where's Digsy when you need him? To call that a repair is a joke. Thats not repair, thats downright plain DAMAGE,the bloody opposite of REPAIR I don't think there is a snow ball in hell's chance of a refund as they will just drag it out and fall back on the T&C's they made you sign. I'd be pushing for a full repair job at a bodyshop of your choice, at their expense obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 different area of legal law for digsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 Hi All, Thanks to everyone for the supportive messages and advice. Thought I'd give you a quick update. OK - letter received from dealer to say that they refuse my rejection of the vehicle and request for a refund - quoted the terms that I signed, and then went on to say if I do not collect the vehicle within 7 days of the letter, they will charge me £14 + VAT per day storage charge. I've spoken to the solicitors at my bank, and whilst they think that if I pushed further I stand a good chance of getting a refund, to take it to the next level I need to start communicating with them through a solicitor. Obviously the problem with this is that it will drag on for a long time, and legal fees are going to be high (although the dealer could be asked to pay them IF the court ruled in my favour), not to mention the stress involved. The option they advised was to take the car back, have it inspected by the RAC or whoever, then get a quote from a reputable body shop on a pro forma invoice, and take them to the small claims court, where I wouldn't need legal representation. In the meantime, I've spoken to the bodyshop who did the repair (!!) job for the dealer. He basically said that when he did the job, he could only do what the dealer asks and pays for. Which was essentially as little work and cost as possible (his words not mine). He said that he advised what work needed to be done to correct the car, communicated this to the dealer, and was told to go against his own advice and do the bare minimum. Personally, I would have thought any bodyshop concerned about their reputation would refuse - however it's obvious the dealer put a lot of work his way. So, I phoned the dealer again and asked if we could discuss having the car rectified, at their cost, to a good standard - and based upon that I would write a reply to their letter. The dealer principle called to say that they would be willing to do this. We discussed on the phone what I believe needed rectifying. He said he'd get it all priced up their end and call me back with a decision (nice to know their decision is based on money and not on morals or customer satisfaction). The sales guy I had been dealing with called today to say that they would repair everything EXCEPT the tailgate. I said I disagreed with this and pointed out to them that when I spoke to the bodyshop, even he agreed that the paint around the window rubber will flake off as the weather gets under it. They wouldn't budge. Begrudingly, I suggested we split the cost of rectifying the tailgate 50/50 since we did not agree. Even then they refused. They said that the body shop would sort the tailgate at the same time as the rest of the car if I wanted, at a cost to me of £180 + VAT. They basically then said that was their final offer and would put it in writing. So, still not happy. However, I have phoned back and accepted their offer on the condition that I could draw up a sheet explaining problems, what I believe needs sorting, and success criteria in judging whether or not the repair is acceptable - so that there is absolutely no argument afterwards as to what constitutes an acceptable repair. They agreed as long as my sheet was reasonable. I visited them in person this afternoon, with sheet, and they have agreed to it. I was also assured that this time, it would be a good job. Now - the only problem this leaves is the tailgate, and the fact that they are using the same body shop. When I spoke to the body shop the other day, the guy was of the opinion that he could have done a good job if he wasn't held back by the dealership. I have visited the body shop today in person to show him a copy of the sheet, to which he is agreeable. I've also told him that if there is any argument with the dealership about the amount of work to be done, to ring me immediately - to which he agreed. His premises are professional and the work he had in whilst I was there looked good. Interestingly, he also showed me a car that they currently have in from the same dealer - which is a car one of their sales guys had reversed into a post. When repairing the vehicle, the body shop noticed some minor damage on another part of it and contacted the dealer to ask if they wanted it repairing whilst it was in (therefore at a lower cost). They said no!! So - the car is most likely going to the body shop on Monday. I'm not sure how I feel. I'm still absolutely fuming about how I've been treated. I'm feeling slightly nervous about the quality of the job. But feeling happy that there is a chance that I am going to get my car back in an acceptable condition. I've also negotiated with the body shop to have the tailgate repaired, at my cost - but not via the dealer. But he will do it at the same time. Really not happy I've had to back down on the refund. But also not sure I can go through the stress of taking them to court. And I'm certainly not in a position to lose out to them financially. At least this repair is based on a pre-agreed checklist - which I've attached for you to see. Apologies for the long post!! I hope I haven't bored you too much. And thanks again for all your support. Fingers crossed it will be resolved to my satisfaction and I can start participating in the rest of the forum! I'm off for a beer. Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixy Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 well, it seems a reasonable way to move forward and put it behind you but I can understand your fear about the quality - at the end of the day you would think a decent place would never compromise their quality and reputation despite what they've been told to do! However, fingers crossed and best of luck to you - hope it turns out well and do keep us informed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zummertor Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Good to hear you've found a way forwards in a timely manner, I was worried you might get dragged into a protracted argument that never really is good for anyone. One positive from this is that you may well end up with a deeper paint layer than the standard Nissan usually do assuming the body shop do a good job. I assume the body shop knows you are on the forum it may help them have a bit more incentive as I'm sure you'd post up the good results they will deliver. Watch out you don't sign a waiver for any other faults other than the specific list you are addressing with them. Hope it goes well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew.pacey Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 Yeah, hopefully they'll get it sorted properly this time. I'll be disappointed, not to mention raving mad, if they don't. Had a call from the bodyshop on Monday to say the windscreen people have removed the back screen ready for respray of the tailgate, but have advised for the seal to be replaced. It advises this in the service manual too - so I best get it done to avoid leaks. £94 + VAT! Eeek! Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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