ilogikal1

Not a particularly scientific test though… 

 

 

 

[/totally over it]

For me, the pictures don't quite tell the same story as the blurb about how it's been kept over it's time - underneath isn't overly corroded, but neither is it particularly clean either. The receipts shown are either vague (at best) or just standard service items. There's nothing specific in there about age related consumables (except the recent new tyres) - especially those components that you can't see. One of the bigger issues with cars that have stood unused for long periods of time is the fuel system, and potential wider engine issues as a result.

 

To be honest, it looks to be in reasonable condition, so maybe top end of the usual price range, but definitely not worth a premium of any kind, IMO.

Even on sale, it's still more expensive than the good stuff.

It's a little difficult to just overlook the tweeter, given it's pro-war propaganda rather than an opinion and all...

That the whole post is factually inaccurate is also an issue.

 

What's the debate, exactly? Genuine question as it seems quite clear cut to me, hence pointing out the difference between what "German states" are proposing and what is stated in the tweet.

If it's part of a word, such as zwei, it's a letter. If it's symbolic object, such as painted on a tank, it's an emblem. The faintest hint of context puts any "debate" well and truly to bed. With the exception of conspiracy theorists, of course, but then they're well beyond the realms of logic or reality in general life.

Someone has.

 

Germany is looking to ban the Z emblem, not the letter Z. Still, if you're getting your news from the Russian state controlled network you probably shouldn't expect anything more accurate than a meme.

23 hours ago, Ekona said:

Go and test drive one and let us know. Or is that not how people actually buy cars these days any more?

Alright, grandad! Jeez, everything is bought on the internet these days. It saves having to actually speak to or see another human being… I’d have thought you’d be all over that! 

Yep, it’ll still be fine to use and won’t adversely affect the paint - the biggest issue you might face is whether the spray trigger still works. 

Only Car Chem Revolt - Korrosol came a pretty close second and was head and shoulders ahead of third the placed product though: https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/120778-the-great-condensed-fallout-remover-test/

 

But, that's tricky to get hold of genuine product these days as Car Chem have replaced it with Iron Detox (I still don't know if that's merely a rebrand or a different recipe though). I'm still testing products from time to time, but I've still not found anything better; https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/82410-the-ilogikal1-test-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1853801

 

 

There's a certain irony to them chopping down carbon dioxide absorbing trees to print thier message about killing the world with carbon dioxide emissions.

 

6 hours ago, Kieran O'Quick said:

Don't they at least leave a manual pump so you don't add to emissions reinflating them? 

 

They couldn't do that. Physical exercise could cause one to breathe heavier and therefore produce even more carbon dioxide.

That's definitely a wooden table...

1 hour ago, StormtrooperZ said:

If ever a game warrants a full price purchase, it's this one in my opinion. There's loads of content/nostalgia here and there won't be a new one for a good number of years yet, so you'll definitely get your money's worth.

 

I actually agree with in principal, I just have a mental block on the actual numbers.

FWIW, I'd be happy to pay more for GT7 than I would for pretty much anything else, I just refuse to accept (or encourage) £70 as a standard launch price for new games out of principal - especially for digital downloads which have a lower cost base but there's rarely even a token discount to the end customer.

 

I'm probably both tight and out of touch with the world (I haven't bought a console since the PS3 - and the early "fat" version at that when it was reasonably new - when the expensive games were launched at £45, and <£40 was the standard).

9 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

The drops here are still selling out in sub 5min, it’s ridiculous 😡

 

It's a similar story here with Amazon, Game, Argos and Very often selling out within minutes. I managed to bag mine through BT this week, just because they and EE are restricting sales to customers only via single use access codes - I'm not actually a BT customer, but their incompetence worked in my favour for once!  But even with those restrictions, the standalone console usually sells out pretty quickly leaving just the more expensive bundles available for any reasonable amount of time.

 

AS for GT7, just me refusing to £65(+) for it then?

14 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

Will be interesting to see if they do the new PS5's in the next review, they are supposed to be even better than than the PS4S 🍿

Ah, but due to the chip shortage you’ll only be able to buy them from scalpers for an inflated price for the first 2 years….

 

 

 

 

(the worst part is, I’m not even sorry. Even the pun )

Can't take that test seriously. He didn't once mention looks, let alone prioritse it.

28 minutes ago, coldel said:

Completely. Run flats had me going all over the road and no confidence, these I am literally point and shoot. 

 

Mind you they don't look that nice...

 

I don't know why anyone would ever put ugly tires on a car. Form over function, always!

(I know, it was intentional!)

Unless there's excessive blue smoke, the only thing I can add to Alex's advice is to make absolutely sure you're reading the oil level accurately - it's remarkably easy to get it wrong on the DE; cold engine, left of level ground overnight, no excessive dipping.

To get a completely accurate view, drain it and measure the amount coming out.

 

If you really are using that much oil and there's no blue smoke, check for leaks first and foremost then consider changing the oil. If none of that fixes your issue then it's time to start thinking about an engine swap.

I'm honestly just glad it's not a (massively overpriced) Integra!

 

 

Enjoy polishing it (phrasing), Col.

3 hours ago, Ekona said:

Who are you, and what have you done with ilogikal??? That was waaaaay too nice a reply! 

 

If it's any consolation I'm sure it was actually just a passive aggressive way of making the point that I can be when I want to be.

 

 

17 minutes ago, RobPhoboS said:

I'll just say it again, if it's not clear to anyone reading this...

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MODULE

 

 

I don't know why no one has mentioned this before, tbh.

2 hours ago, nozb2k said:

The wheel speed sensors freaking out combined with the module bypassing this behaviour is a danger, this is all I was pointing out.

 

The point you appear to be missing, despite everyone so far telling you the same thing, is that running so wildly mismatched wheel sizes is the danger here. The module is irrelevant to that equation. That is all everyone else is pointing out.

 

I appreciate some responses are more... 'direct' than others, but digging in, ignoring everyone else and doubling down is not going to persuade anyone that you are correct and the module is the issue. The mismatched wheel are the issue, regardless of how people present that point.

Oh now you've done it...

Seeing as no one has cracked the enigma of what's next - obviously due to my supreme intelligence making it too difficult rather than a complete lack of interest in even trying... obviously - so to put you all out of my misery or whatever, here is that there reveal is here.

 

As promised, that there test follows a familiar format and sees an old favourite defend it's crown. I started with a half-arsed "prep" for the test - specifically I sprayed the surface with VP's "bike cleaner" (otherwise known as Dirt Magic), left to dwell long enough to consider agitating it and set up the pressure washer, half-arsed the agitation and called it names as I thoroughly rinsed with the pressure washer, then let the surface dry a little for about 10 minutes.

I decided to go with a touchless prep to thoroughly test the products abilities. Abe because I didn't have my Wheel Woolies. Or enough arsed to do a proper job.

 

In a very particular order, I'll start with the second wheel. Purely for entertainment value so all rules are subject to change at my whim - unrelated side note, this post is inspired by the existence of Michael Masi1. Our control product, for this test, is of course:

 

1Michael Masi had no involvement, implied or actual, in the formation of this post. Or consistent application of rules in 2021.

Old skool Car Chem Revolt, the winner of my own, scientifically flawed, mega-test which was subsequently taken off the market. Revolt, not my scientfically flawed mega-test. My Scientifically flawed mega-test is still available. Even on the manufacturer's website who don't make Revolt anymore. They do make Iron Detox though - I don't know if this is simply a rebrand of the same product or an altered product however. So I'm using Revolt. Because I can. And I want to.

Anywho, this particular brand of product that you can't get anymore was sprayed onto to a wet wheel - Frankie, for those who remember page 27. For those who don't, that'll be the front right. Because the correct order of washing for today was Ryan, Rita, Floyd, Frankie. Or left rear, right rear, left front, right front. Because water runs down hill and I parked nose up, at an angle Not because I'm weird. Although I am weird, but we really don't have time to get into that right now... ahem, moving on. Frankie started off looking like this:

 

 

Believe it or not, that's cleaner than it was pre-Dirt Magic!

As Revolt does, it immediately did... not a lot actually. Which looked like this (there's a reason behind this picture, I promise):

 

As my limited experience with this product tells me that this is usual, Revolt doesn't tend to react immediately but rather takes a couple of minutes.

 

Meanwhile, over on Floyd, which started off looking like this:

 

 

 

This had already happened almost as soon as Floyd's product had hit it (this would be the reason for Frankie's picture, by the way):

 

 

And mere seconds later, this (as usual, look beyond the giant puddle of purple dripping off the brake disc):

 

 

Within the thirty seconds, mystery product B was picking up both smaller particals around the hub and barrel. Oh, by the way, mystery product B was in fact this:

 

 

According to the bottle, it's VP Devils Blood. According to the website, it's ValetingProducts (or sometimes Valeting Products, or VP) "Devils Blood Car Paint, Glass And Wheel Cleaner Iron Fallout Remover".

Quote

The new and incredible Devils Blood that you must try at least once!

Check.

Quote

Devils Blood is a highly effective, acid-free and pH balanced car paint, wheel and glass cleaner (safe for all wheels including aluminium and alloys). This formulation is also effective and safe for use on all car surfaces and will not deteriorate clear coats.

 

The website goes on to explain that it's specifically a fallout remover and why that's good. Also:

Quote

Many experts agree that Devils Blood is more effective than Clay Bars and cutting agents and requires very little effort.

 

As is seemingly quite a popular trend these days, these claims are provided without any context and remain unsubstatiated. But it makes a lovely statement to support the cause, so it's fine to just chuck in there. I'm not sure who these experts are, how many constitutes "Many", what Devils Blood is more effective at, how that was scientifically tested (because Bilt Hamber will need the scientic study to accept it - I'm totally over that, by the way. Thanks for asking) or what specifically requires very little effort - to use? To store? To manufacture? To look at?

Anyway, the website also provides the following:

Quote

Directions for use:
1. Wash vehicle as normal to remove surface dirt.
2. Spray Panel/Wheel generously with product to ensure an even coverage.
3. Allow product to dwell for approx 5 minutes, you will notice the paintwork starts to run purple/red. This is the iron/fallout dissolving leaving your paintwork contaminant free.
4. Rinse thoroughly with clean water.

 

I don't know if the bottle does or not because I don't have the bottle within reach at this moment in time and, quite frankly, I'm too lazy to fetch it and find out. You can probably guess that I didn't look to follow the instructions, however:

1. Check... ish. I "washed" Floyd first if that counts. And by "washed" I very much mean pre-washed.
2. Check... ish. I didn't ensure even coverage. I just ensured coverage.
3. Check. I also did notice. And I have photographic evidence of my noticing. Which is why you're here. So I should just get on with it. Right?!?
4. Check... ish. Depending on your definition of "clean". My definition of "clean" in this context is hard tap water (A.K.A. liquid chalk), fresh from several miles of pipe, a tap, a garden hose, a pressure washer, another hose, a washer gun complete with nozzle and about 5 feet of Essex air. For context or whatever.

 

Whilst Devils Blood was reacting virtually instantly - and I'm comfortable it's actually reacting rather than simply just turning purple because it's picking up specific spots and simply looking like a bloodbath - Revolt took a minute or two to do this:

 

 

 

 

You all know Revolt already - if you don't, there's about 20 pages on it in this thread! - so I'll not go over old ground here, however I will compare Devils Blood to Revolt.

Devils Blood (which suggests VP bled more than one devil... which is foretelling) has the typical scent of Eau de Psycho KillerTM. It's a translucent pink liquid that's noticeably less viscous than Revolt, as a result (of the viscosity, not the colour) it runs off a bit quicker, as was evident with the puddle under the brake disc within seconds of application. That said, Devils Blood does still hang around long enough to work thoroughly and there was no sign of it drying out any sooner than Revolt. In my test, the first applicaton was left to dwell for 10 minutes, by which time only the overspray from both products was starting to dry out on that particular day (conditions were mild - ~14 degrees - and overcast, so no direct sunlight or risk of baking on).

 

Between 6-8 minutes (so 7 minutes) after application, Floyd/Devils Blood looked like this:

 

Meanwhile Frankie & Revolt looked like this:

 

 

Apparently I didn't get (or perhapsn didn't not delete...) the picture of the barrel with Revolt on. Suffice it to say it wasn't pretty. Unless you like purple, then it was pretty. It was not too dissimilar to Devil's Blood picture if I'm not mistaken, but you don't have to take my word for it, you can test it for yourself. If you have a stockpile of Revolt (just me?). And Frankie (just me!). In that exact state (not even me). So you do have to take my word for it actually.

 

Both wheels were then thoroughly rinsed with the aforemention "clean" liguid chalk. Then, as I tend to do, I swapped fall out removers to the opposite wheel. Almost immediately, Frankie and Devils Blood looked like this:

 

 

 

That's not selective photography, that's literally every reaction.

Meanwhile, Floyd and Revolt just look like Floyd when wet. After a minute or so though, Floyd and Revolt looked like this:

 

That is selective.

After another 5 minutes, Frankie and Devils Blood looked like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile Floyd and Revolt was looking like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, I don't make fall out removers, nor do I make Revolt (although no one does now so who knows where that leaves us) and I don't chemiclly dissolve iron particales whilst turning purple either, so I'm not sure if I'm allowed to have an opinion on any of this... but in the spirit of Michael Masi, **** the rules, I'm going to do what I want. I reserve my right to backtrack as soon as someone questions my decision and/or re-interpret rules as it suits me at the time in an effort to excuse any perceived **** up.

With that caveat (because what is a post from me without a caveat?), I'm giving the clear win to Revolt. Naturally, I then preceeded to use Devils Blood on the rest of the car. I can confirm it works on paintwork as well as on... painted wheels... erm... yeah.

 

All in all, Devils Blood is okay - it clearly works to remove a degree of fallout contaminants - but doesn't, in my view, perform as well we Revolt does.

Devils Blood is £4.99 for 500ml, although adding another 500ml to that first one will cost you an additional £5, 5 litres will add another £23 and 25 litres will add £70 to that price. For those struggling, that's cheaper to buy 2x500ml (and save yourself a penny) at £9.98, £27.99 for 5 litres or £74.99 for 25litres. It also has the advantage of still being available for purchase.

 

Revolt, however, will set you back... er... nothing, because you can't buy it anymore. Or if you can, it's old stock and/or watered down eBay crap. The former is fine as, aside from potentially eating and/or clogging spray head components, it has a long shelf life so provided it's been correctly stored it should be fine. For the sake of reference, Car Chem's current offering, Iron Detox, costs £9.99 for 500ml, £14.50 for 1 litre, £32.99 for 5 litres or £115 for 25 litres - please note that I am not implying or stating that Iron Detox is interchangeable with Revolt.

 

Both Devils Blood and Revolt have the same horrendous scent which is always unpleasant - especially spraying up wind! In terms of usage for my test, they were comparable, so value for money is... completely irrelevant as you still can't get Revolt anymore. I do have enough Devils Blood to test against Iron Detox though. I do also have 1.5 litres of Revolt left over as well, so... actually I'm just bragging, because you can't buy Revolt anymore. Which is the most disappointing development since Jeffs Werkstatt disappeared from existance.

 

Anyway, that's this year's wash done already. I'll see you all in 2023. Ish.

2 hours ago, Stutopia said:

I spent ages chasing a 981S with the right colour and options and then gave up and went for a GTS

It’s a hard life, isn’t it Stu? 

 

38 minutes ago, Stutopia said:

Not directly related to the above, but as someone who is obviously rather keen on detailing (and therefore likely to be at least moderate spectrum OCD) how the hell do you cope with having multiple products and non-uniform water behaviour across multiple panels?

 

It makes me anxious and I’m not anywhere near it!

 

In short; denial.

 

In long: It actually doesn't bother me in the immediate term when it's intentional because ultimately that's the point. The car is then usually starting to get dirty again within hours which affects the water behaviour across panels anyway (more so when it's more likely to get wet) which usually bothers me whether it's intentional or not (hence early on very few of these tests resulted in any sort of conclusion on durability!).

These days I simply don't have the means to clean the car as thoroughly or as often as I'd like. I've found not being able to clean it to my desired standards makes me much more anxious than having a dirty car does - either way, non-uniform water behviour is the least of my worries with the car these days, sadly.

 

Take this time, for example; usually I'd never walk away having not applied at least one LSP (even in the rain), however because I haven't been able to wash the car properly (let alone detail it) I essentially just gave up with it really.

 

 

 

Also there's so many different colours and shades on a Z (between the lights, wheels, badges, plates and the different panel materials) anyway it seems more fitting that water behaves differently across each shade of blue.

As mentioned above, I used Ceramic Suds for the wash, so the following pictures and update comes courtesy of a mere snow foam and rinse.

 

As a reminder

On 31/08/2021 at 00:21, ilogikal1 said:

Firstly, I simply must provide a caveat, because that's the world we live in these days. Also, it's kinda what I do in these posts now...

 

As I may have mentioned, the paint isn't especially clean right now, which is likely to affect durability and potentially beading as well. However, I have plenty of both left to do a proper durability (and beading) test following a full detail.

 

For reference, two thirds of the bootlid is currently wearing Hydropel over Neutral Enhance, one third has Lockdown over Neutral Enhance.

The bonnet is a similar mix and match; one third (passenger side) is wearing straight Hydropel, one third (middle section) is wearing Hydropel over Lockdown and the final third (driver side) is wearing straight Lokdown.

The rest of the car is wearing lockdown.

 

As a further reminder, I wasn't overly struck by Hydropel and whilst I would happily use it again I wasn't expecting a great deal from it (although I'm not now sure why that was in all honesty). I was quite looking forward to using Lockdown and was expecting big things from it.

Hydropel's (well, SPP's) website claims it

Quote

repels water instantly, seals and protects from road salts for up to 6 months.

 

Lockdown's (well, CC's) website claims it

Quote

will protect paintwork for up to 12 months

 

Considering the caveat from August, that the paint wasn't primed for either sealant, combined with the fact that the car hasn't received anything more involved than a single snow foam and thorough rinse in 4 months, I will leave these pictures here for you all to make your own conclusion(s).

 

 

From driver's side to passenger's side:

 

 

 

And at the front of the bonnet:

 

 

 

Once again, one third (passenger side) is wearing straight Hydropel, one third (middle section) is wearing Hydropel over Lockdown and the final third (driver side) is wearing straight Lockdown.

One third is definitely more compromised than the other two. Actually the other to are standing up pretty well considering the circumstances - it's clearly not fresh, but it's still both sheeting and beading reasonably well for a sealant that is two thirds of the way through it's claimed lifespan despite the suboptimal prep.

 

Compared to the bootlid:

 

 

 

Once again, two thirds of the bootlid is currently wearing Hydropel over Neutral Enhance, one third has Lockdown over Neutral Enhance.

Neither has stood up particularly well, with both suffering major failures on significant patches.

 

 

Once again, the rest of the car is wearing Lockdown. I didn't take photos of the sid panels, but they were all reacting as you would expect (i.e. lower panels are signficantly compromised - and still dirty at this point - but the upper panels are fairing reasonably well). This with the exception of the roof.

 

Now, I don't recall what happened on the roof - if I did anything different, or potentially if I missed a section entirely! - however it's been evident for some time that something's gone wrong there. Whether it be frost, rain or mist, one half of the roof has always behaved differently to the other. Hence, this was not a surprise to me.

 

 

So... er... yeah. I'm almost certain I may have missed a section there, just because it's so uniform across the one side that would coincide with the reach from the passenger side.

 

Now, unfortunately I'm not able to check whether one sealant is more prone to clogging than the other as I don't have a straight shampoo with me here, just Ceramic Suds which adds it's own protection (albeit with questionable durability, but with that comes questionable cleaning ability too). There is potential that Lockdown may have been revived somewhat by a proper wash (rather than just a pre-wash), but this may have to be investigated further at a later date. In the meantime I may have to reconsider Hydropel as preferred LSP.

At least until my car isn't filled with Christmas next time I return from the North and I can bring more detailing stuff back instead.

 

On the bright side, I did have enough space for certain, specific products this time. So that aforementioned test will be written up and posted soon1.

 

1Soon is a relative term - it'll probably be tomorrow. Or something. I can't promise it'll be worth it, but I can promise it will follow a fimiliar and popular format and involves a product that I haven't used before.

Internet points to anyone who figures out what that product is before I post it.

Following a 4 month interlude culminating in a 400+ mile round trip over Christmas, I decided it was about time to treat the Z to another wash today. Largely because I was struggling to see out of the windows... anyway, I have things to report.

 

First and foremost, I previously said this;

On 03/09/2021 at 15:17, ilogikal1 said:

note to self, one's foam lance is in dre need of a tear down and thorough clean before the next use!

Which I didn't do, and therefore is still true today. Nethertheless, my approach for today was:

1. The wheels were all thoroughly sprayed with Dirt Magic, left to dwell for ~6 minutes then rinsed thoroughly with the pressure washer.
2. Conducted the test you're about to read below. Or not read. Either way, I conducted a test, it's going to be written up below. The reading of said write up is optional and incidenctal to these facts.
3. De-tarred and de-fallouted the car
4. Snow foamed the entire car using VP Snow Foam and an underperforming lance, whilst thinking to myself that the lance needs a clean and declogging.
5. Rinsed using the pressure washer.
6. Took some pictures for the subsequent sealant update.
7. Washed the car top to bottom with Car Chem Ceramic Suds (partially due to a lack of alternative shampoos to hand - this may or may not be relevant later on).
8. Rinsed using the pressure washer.
9. Hid from the rain that definitely wasn't going to arrive before 2 hours later at the absolute very earliest.

Now, I mention point 9 specifically because, a) Apple's weather forecasting is less forecasting and more retrospectively responding to what happened 10 minutes ago. Whch is about as useful as ECP's customer service department. I'm totally over that. Also, b) because of this:

 

I have previously used, and reported on, Ceramic Suds. Including the issues I've had with it - namely the streaking. All of which I had completely forgotten abount (the issues, not the previous uses, I remember using it before... largely because the bottle isn't full!). Of Ceramic Suds, I previously wrote (amongst other things)

On 28/08/2021 at 22:21, ilogikal1 said:

I might do a proper durability test for it one day, but I'm not convinced it's going to hold its own against Bathe+.

[/snip]

So my primary theory is too much product. I'll try less next time and forget to report back.

 

As I mentioned, I forgot about the streaking issue, as such I used considerably more than 50ml per 10l of water. I still didn't remember my previous woes when I noticed the streaking on the bonnet as it started to dry on panel. I seem to have approached the solution in the same way though - namely regular rinsing of washed panels to prevent product drying on the panel.

 

Now, in a very non-linear method, this may be good news (may be, because it rained so I've no idea whether the streaks remain below the wet surface) as, during my Christmas tour of the east of England I picked up my previous mystery box of Car Chem goodies... which includes 1l of QD that I've not touched. This is relevant, if not particularly clear, because, related to the streaks (and probably waterspots) which I attempted to resolve with Neutral Enhance Waterless Wash last time;

On 29/08/2021 at 12:25, ilogikal1 said:

All in all, I think I'd have been no worse (or better) off with a quick detailer.

 

For those still following my ramblings, this means I may be able to test this theory from August. Unless I managed to avoid streaking with sufficient rinsing including persistent rain at the wrong time of day.

 

For anyone who didn't follow that (including me, I think), don't worry about it - you're really not missing out!

 

The more observant of you may have noticed that my approach for today ended after the final rinse, meaning that I added no additional LSP other than Cermic Suds. I have to admit I was aiming to add a layer of Lockdown and/or HydroCoat Hybrid. However, it rained before it was supposed to, so I didn't. I am relying on Cermic Suds to offer enough protection until I get round to doing that1.

 

Amongst the things that I totally didn't forget that I'd done before was this entire post which addressed the streaking issue (mostly) but also addressed the (lack of) durability of Ceramic Suds.

 

1Since the Z was last washed a number of things have changed. One of those things being that I have moved. My new place doesn't have sufficient means to wash the car, which means I need to drive somewhere to wash it - that place being a 1.5 mile drive away. My allocated parking space at home is under cover though I may consider the use of a QD in place of a proper wash in order to lay down a layer of sealant. Or I may not and it may just wait until I wash the car again. At Easter. Maybe even this year.

 

There will now be a brief interlude whilst I arrange pictures and fetch more beer. Stay tuned for pictures. I'm not sharing my beer, get your own!