robert Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 To cut a long story short, I had my Z serviced at Bishops Nissan in Guildford on 20/12/06; on 20/1/07 I came off the M25 to see white smoke everywhere. Oil pressure was low, but there was no warning light. I stopped pretty damn quickly and saw a nice pool of oil collect under the car. The immediate cause of the problem was a missing sump plug. Whilst waiting for the car recovery people to do their thing, I checked out my garage. Sure enough, a small patch of oil had soaked into the carpet. My car parking spot at work also has a little bit of oil there too. Once the car was returned to Bishops Nissan, they filled the engine with oil and started it up. The engine sounded fine, and the car seemed (and still seems) unaffected by the experience. I, however, am not unaffected. Astonishingly, the service manager suggested that I had loosened the sump plug myself. This barely deserves a response, but you can imagine that loosening the sump plug isn't the first thing I do following a service. Next, the service manager suggested that someone else might have done it instead. He must live in a rough area if he thinks someone would break into my (7ft) garage, jack the car up and loosen a sump plug...so soon after a service. In fairness, the service manager at first offered to pride a written guarantee of the worthiness of the engine to provide peace of mind. However, he later said that the dealer principal had intervened to prevent him from doing this. This seems to have nothing to do with Nissan GB, and Bishops' insist that they're not responsible. So, all that remains for me to do is to thank Bishops for their offer of a free service as a gesture of good will. I think I'll decline. robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 If the copper washer is not replaced (as it should be) at each change, the sump plug can indeed unwind itself. Did you check whether a replacement washer was itemised as a part when the oil was changed? BTW white smoke is never usually asociated with an oil problem (blue smoke) but rather a head gasket issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam's Z Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Welcome Robert Very upsetting first post that of which I hope is genuine!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Welcome Robert Very upsetting first post that of which I hope is genuine!!! Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam's Z Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Welcome Robert Very upsetting first post that of which I hope is genuine!!! Am I missing something? Sorry Dorian, just my suspicious nature.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Welcome Robert Very upsetting first post that of which I hope is genuine!!! Am I missing something? Sorry Dorian, just my suspicious nature.... Thanks for the welcome; I have actually lurked for a while. Being suspicious is fair enough. Assuming that I can figure out how to post images, here are pictures of: 1. Hole where the sump plug should be. Apologies for the poor quality --- I stuck my arm under the sump with the car jacked up and aimed the camera blind. 2. Recovery vehicle's report citing missing sump plug 3. Service invoice from 20/12/06 I hope these pictures answer your doubts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuey Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 yup..................... sump plugs gone alright................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomoto Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 All you can do is try to get it in writing that the dealer will stand any subsequent repair bills due to oil starvation, failing this just keep all documents appertaining to this and if future problems develop sue the B*****Ds arse off , By the way I suspect the white smoke you saw was due to the oil hitting the exhaust pipe..you will probably be lucky in this instance if you pulled up quickly and hopefully wont have sustained any lasting damage In the meantime I would hold out for a lot more than a credit note for a free service !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuey Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 let us know how you get on robert............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 SHHIIITTTT!!! Get down there and get what you rightly deserve, i would not take anything like that from anyone, let alone a dealer TELLING me that i did it myself!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zzzz... Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 oil hitting a very hot exhaust or catalyser, could generate fire!, maybe whilst driving this will be unlikely but worth checking... I am not sure of the layout of the sump plug and the exhaust... but also might be worth inspecting any electrical connectors (02 sensor connectors etc) in the proximity of the exhaust...) and checking for heat damage, contamination etc.. which could deteriorate the harness not now, but 2 months down the line... It might even be worth getting an independant AA inspector to come and have a look and assess the condition of the car and underfloor, and indicate likely areas of damage and potential deterioration. Oil can attchk plastics, harnesses, connectors etc... with this information in hand you can then decide if it is worth pusuing small claims court... (the AA cost could be recovered and charged back to the dealer... if there is a problem...or potential future problem... after this the car needs to get properly cleaned for the whole underfloor with oil contamination. you could even raise the issue that from an environmental point of view it is ILLEGAL to dump used oil ( except in correct collection points) as such his error has caused you to break the law... Basic Errors Like This Should Not Be Tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'd speak to the legal department at RAC or the AA . See what advice they can offer. I' think there is something to do with the Consumer Protection Act and that you service may have not been up to standard. RAC 0870 5533 533 (m) AA 0906 010 1300 (premium rate) Otherwise try speaking to the Watchdog department at autoexpress (magazine), perhaps they might like taking up your case. Helpline Auto Express 30 Cleveland Street London W1T 4JD email: helpline@autexpress.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmmackfc Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Unsure as to what you have or haven't done... I'd try speaking with the General Manager at Bishops and highlight this case to make him aware. The Service Manager could have omitted to telling him about this incident. . .it happens. If that doesn't work, I'd go up to the next step in the ladder i.e the top man for the Bishop's franchise. If that doesn't work then it's off to Nissan GB, telling them that dealer has been unsupportive. . .etc. If that doesn't work then I do as some of the other guys have suggested. Finally, if that doesn't work whatever you do, don't watch "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas ...it could get messy Good luck Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagar Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 shocking response from the dealer, but alas, it seems a current theme with nissan dealers at the minute read this: http://www.visordown.com/forums/showthr ... ght=nissan then this, from a nissan engine design employee: http://www.visordown.com/forums/showthr ... ght=nissan in the end both turned out good but after a huge amount of struggle that wasnt really needed, both cases were covered by TSB's that magically didnt apply to eitehr of these cars yet after consistant fighting were accepted to be effected by the TSB's. Makes you wonder how many other owners are fobbed off though then couple it with my and other members experience of sheer faced lies from nissan UK customer support and local dealers.... Nissan you are really letting yourself down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkfish Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Total horror story Robert!! Hope no damage has been done. Love the guy insinuating that you did it yourself. What a cockmaster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I would get the suggestion that you did it yourself in writing too. If he said it then he can write it if he believes it himself! That little letter could help you on too in a legal wrangle I'm sure. I would definately demand an investigation into the incident. I would have thought it would be normal practice anyway. Definately contact a legal advisor whether a solicitor or citizens advice or whatever as I'm quite sure things could be done here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 Thanks for the replies guys. I'm currently talking to Nissan CS, to whom I've described my extreme unhapiness. I've also pointed out that not even a monkey would think that the fact that I had had a service so soon beforehand was a coincidence. At the time I thought that the suggestion that I had loosened the plug myself was merely stupid, but it now strikes me as being insulting. The lack of integrity at Bishops Nissan is staggering. You'd think that a professional-looking organisation would have the integrity to admit their mistakes as happily as they took my money. I guess now they've shown their true colour. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbside*motors Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 While I am not for one minute defending the dealer here, from my time working with big dealerships, servicing is usually carried out by apprentices. The copper sump plug should have been replaced but it is possible to tighten the sump plug tight enough to squash the washer but for the plug to be slack enough to fall out. While the service manager may have appeared to suggest it was your fault to you he was only trying to cover himself. For every customer who is genuinely let down by their dealer there is a customer who has tried it on and tried for freebies. By suggesting this could have been something to do with you he can eliminate you from being a chancer! His job becomes a whole lot harder in these situations because as well as deal with you, he has to find out why the sump plug was left slack and discipline as necessary. Everyone makes mistakes and because customers want to pay as little as possible it is difficult to pay decent mechanics enough to stay in the trade.(I myself quit being a mechanic because I could earn more raking about down the backs of my mates couches! ) The garage have made an arse of it, mistakenly. The service manager has tackled his response wrongly. And your Zeds engine will have taken a bit more of a pounding than it should have. Why not go back to the dealer and ask them if they will agree to contribute towards repairs resulting from damage that may have been caused in return for your repeat business? You are in a good position because if he knows you will come back you can bet your ass your car will be 100% every time you pick it up from now on and if you can get it in writing he will contribute to future engine repairs you are laughing. You have to remember you have a Nissan which tend to need engine rebuilds every Millenium or so! From my own experiences with Nissan, unless you had to drive back from Cape town with no oil your engine should be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Here's an update --- I had wanted to write this sooner but was waiting for something in writing. First, though, thanks to everyone for your support. Bishops Nissan continue to deny liability. Nissan Motors GB have assured me that the existing extended warranty on the car is unaffected. After the extended warranty expires, they will extend goodwill for a further two years. Very specifically, I won't be paying for the engine to be replaced if it dies as a result of Bishops' handiwork. I'm very happy with the sympathetic and supportive response from Nissan GB. There remains no perceptible difference in the way that the car runs; given that the oil pressure warning light didn't come on at the time of the problem, I think it's most likely escaped unharmed. Even so, I have another four years in which consequent problems should be resolved without too much bother. From a legal perspective, after talking to the OFT (whom I believe passed on a complaint to Trading Standards), then regardless of the small print, a dealer remains liable for a total of six years for the consequence of negligence. This is outlined in the Sale of Goods Act, 1982 (or so I'm told). Interestingly, for the first six months there is a "reverse burden of proof" on the dealer; i.e., if there's a problem during this time then the dealer will have to prove that it isn't liable. Seeing as I'm unlikely to keep the car until it's 7 years old, I don't have too much to worry about. Nonetheless, I feel badly bitten by the experience at Bishops Nissan, and would strongly urge anybody to take his business elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_350z Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Good work, Robert. Shame it happened but you handled it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Sounds like you are all covered. Nice result in the end for all your hard efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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