N!ck-z Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Initially I was going to refrain from replying as given the responses I got I suspect I may be wasting my time. Boredom on a Sunday morning however led me to search online for effective wing chun techniques, particularly wing chun full contact fights and all it has done is reaffirm by beliefs and in a couple of cases led me to laugh out loud ("wing chun - anti grappling" from someone who has trained in wrestling is very amusing to say the least). To really test any martial art it needs to be tested in a full contact environment (hence my earlier reference to MMA - I still do not see how the comparison is "simply ludicrous") yet in every video I have seen this morning each practitioner enters throwing a flurry of extremely fast pretty powerless punches then commits to swinging like 2 drunk 10 year olds. The only techniques I have seen that have been effective have been clinching (done poorly - learn muay thai to do this correctly), wild hooks (again done poorly - learn boxing or muay thai to punch correctly) and in one video one of the sloppiest and most poorly defended double leg takedowns I have seen (learn wrestling to take someone to the floor and wrestling to defend - and FYI the only way to "anti grapple" is to grapple). The point I am getting at is that in a restricted environment such as controlled sparring (no takedowns / grappling / less power /less speed or whatever rules you may have in force) wing chun and other traditional martial arts may look effective, but throw the same person into a full contact fight and naturally the person will respond utilising the most effective method available. Unfortunately this is very rarely what you will find taught in an traditional martial art. It is a shame and perhaps understandable that many martial artists find it hard to believe that after years of training their methods are not the most effective in a real life combat situation. Perhaps if people widened their gaze a little they could actually improve their martial art rather than blindly following what their instructor has told them will work. Can I also just state that I am not a trained wrestler as my posts suggest. I simply train aspects of it alongside many other combat sports to improve my all round game as I would be naive and stupid to think one sport / art would give me everything I need to fight effectively. Maz0 - I guess you train thai and notice you are from Glasgow - do you train at the grip by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz0 Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Initially I was going to refrain from replying as given the responses I got I suspect I may be wasting my time. Boredom on a Sunday morning however led me to search online for effective wing chun techniques, particularly wing chun full contact fights and all it has done is reaffirm by beliefs and in a couple of cases led me to laugh out loud ("wing chun - anti grappling" from someone who has trained in wrestling is very amusing to say the least). To really test any martial art it needs to be tested in a full contact environment (hence my earlier reference to MMA - I still do not see how the comparison is "simply ludicrous") yet in every video I have seen this morning each practitioner enters throwing a flurry of extremely fast pretty powerless punches then commits to swinging like 2 drunk 10 year olds. The only techniques I have seen that have been effective have been clinching (done poorly - learn muay thai to do this correctly), wild hooks (again done poorly - learn boxing or muay thai to punch correctly) and in one video one of the sloppiest and most poorly defended double leg takedowns I have seen (learn wrestling to take someone to the floor and wrestling to defend - and FYI the only way to "anti grapple" is to grapple). The point I am getting at is that in a restricted environment such as controlled sparring (no takedowns / grappling / less power /less speed or whatever rules you may have in force) wing chun and other traditional martial arts may look effective, but throw the same person into a full contact fight and naturally the person will respond utilising the most effective method available. Unfortunately this is very rarely what you will find taught in an traditional martial art. It is a shame and perhaps understandable that many martial artists find it hard to believe that after years of training their methods are not the most effective in a real life combat situation. Perhaps if people widened their gaze a little they could actually improve their martial art rather than blindly following what their instructor has told them will work. Can I also just state that I am not a trained wrestler as my posts suggest. I simply train aspects of it alongside many other combat sports to improve my all round game as I would be naive and stupid to think one sport / art would give me everything I need to fight effectively. Maz0 - I guess you train thai and notice you are from Glasgow - do you train at the grip by any chance? I used to train in thai years ago but gave it up through lack of time to commit! I tried to get back into it last year and had several sessions at the grip It's an excellent gym. You know of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N!ck-z Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Yes, I've trained there occasionally. I train MMA and fight for DNFT at the D-unit, but as the unit, Lanark MMA and the grip all come under DNFT then Ive had a few team spars at the grip - excellent coaches and excellent facilities ..... the fighters arent too bad either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff-r Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Some of you act like you've never seen Karate Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Androo Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 The point I am getting at is that in a restricted environment such as controlled sparring (no takedowns / grappling / less power /less speed or whatever rules you may have in force) wing chun and other traditional martial arts may look effective, but throw the same person into a full contact fight and naturally the person will respond utilising the most effective method available. Unfortunately this is very rarely what you will find taught in an traditional martial art. as much as i respect your opinion, and obviously have a good amount of history on the subject - that one had my head shaking - either you have been to the wrong clubs, or seen the wrong videos. Proper Martial Arts teaches exactly that (and im not talking about Karate which is a *sport*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikarus Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Initially I was going to refrain from replying as given the responses I got I suspect I may be wasting my time. Boredom on a Sunday morning however led me to search online for effective wing chun techniques, particularly wing chun full contact fights and all it has done is reaffirm by beliefs and in a couple of cases led me to laugh out loud ("wing chun - anti grappling" from someone who has trained in wrestling is very amusing to say the least). To really test any martial art it needs to be tested in a full contact environment (hence my earlier reference to MMA - I still do not see how the comparison is "simply ludicrous") yet in every video I have seen this morning each practitioner enters throwing a flurry of extremely fast pretty powerless punches then commits to swinging like 2 drunk 10 year olds. The only techniques I have seen that have been effective have been clinching (done poorly - learn muay thai to do this correctly), wild hooks (again done poorly - learn boxing or muay thai to punch correctly) and in one video one of the sloppiest and most poorly defended double leg takedowns I have seen (learn wrestling to take someone to the floor and wrestling to defend - and FYI the only way to "anti grapple" is to grapple). The point I am getting at is that in a restricted environment such as controlled sparring (no takedowns / grappling / less power /less speed or whatever rules you may have in force) wing chun and other traditional martial arts may look effective, but throw the same person into a full contact fight and naturally the person will respond utilising the most effective method available. Unfortunately this is very rarely what you will find taught in an traditional martial art. It is a shame and perhaps understandable that many martial artists find it hard to believe that after years of training their methods are not the most effective in a real life combat situation. Perhaps if people widened their gaze a little they could actually improve their martial art rather than blindly following what their instructor has told them will work. Can I also just state that I am not a trained wrestler as my posts suggest. I simply train aspects of it alongside many other combat sports to improve my all round game as I would be naive and stupid to think one sport / art would give me everything I need to fight effectively. Maz0 - I guess you train thai and notice you are from Glasgow - do you train at the grip by any chance? I don't think you understand Wing Tyun at all. Wing Tyun encourages change and development and it is expected for a technician grade to theorise and propose improvements to the system. Wing Tyun is anything but traditional. I certainly do not blindly follow my instructors at all, nor are we expected to, everything taught is demonstrated practically against realistic situations and trained applied against an opponent. Wing Tyun is not like many other Kung Fu systems where lots of 'unnecessary' flamboyant movements have been added, it is based on minimum effort, maximum effect - it is not 'pretty'. I will refrain from going on, but i suggest you read up a little more on the system. I'm not saying it's better or worse than any other system, just that i think you have misunderstood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 TBH, there is not one "definitive" martial art, hence why in MMA you learn different styles and try to adapt parts or a whole style into your own fighting style, whatever works right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom187 Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 This is just my 2p guys I am just commenting on my experiences... I studied Wing Tsun for just over 2 years, it was good for me as it helped me to be calmer in 'situations' it was also comforting as my GF was training with me at the time so I knew she could look after herself. I dont want to preach but alot of people have said to me martial arts are no good in street fights, I know from personal experience you can pick apart the average Joe on the street with some very simple moves without my training I would not have been able to do this. People always go for the knock out hook, by the time they have twitched their shoulder you have chain punched them several times in the face so I do think martial arts have their place IMO. I have found there are two types of Wing Tsun that are taught, old and new. Old style you always defend your body so your guard is chest hight, new style your guard your head/neck height. The new style is the developing all the time as students adjust the theories behind it to make the martial art better. I have found the old style would be more tradional and the material that your learn never changes over time. Also if anyone is looking at youtube videos, checkout James Sinclair + Mark Philips for Wing Tsun as my teacher goes to them for lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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