Baptist Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 That was GForce's dyno. GForce were renownned for inflating power figures. The car was dyno'd elsewhere (I'll get the name of it) just before the car went pop. On that dyno it was showing 401 BHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was present at the independant ru ( as were many others) it was up north not far from Oulton and I can vouch that it ran 401. And that was on a VERY cold morning too, I doubt that given the conditions the temperature of his engine (he stayed locally overnight) that there was another 25 BHP in it. G Force had a tendency to overinflate the tyres to increase the bhp. Dont ask me how exactly it works but ive seen people cheat that way before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 As you can see I now have 19 posts 4 or 5 of which have been in the last two days. Hardly what you would call a frequent visitor. Regards Allan don't think bap's comment was made vs yours. I don't know what problems he's got with you, but afaik You have had good reports from a couple of members on here and an issue that was resolved satisfatorily by yourselves. personally i have never discounted you guys when the time comes to decide which tuner to use for some FI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was present at the independant ru ( as were many others) it was up north not far from Oulton and I can vouch that it ran 401. And that was on a VERY cold morning too, I doubt that given the conditions the temperature of his engine (he stayed locally overnight) that there was another 25 BHP in it. G Force had a tendency to overinflate the tyres to increase the bhp. Dont ask me how exactly it works but ive seen people cheat that way before! Have you ever tried rolling a flat tyred wheel then - its much harder, so on the rollers the flatter the tyre the more power it absorbs and the lower the power figure recorded. The more balloon like the tyre the less power to roll it along but no way you run that high pressure on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Your telling me that if you had spent that kind of money on a kit, and it hadnt been installed as it should, you wouldnt seek some compensation?? Its packaged as complete tuning solution, that is within the safety limits of the engines capacity for power. course I would! Just saying it's a difficult situation for Giles due to the above reasons. ps, Get your facts right, who said that RJN did the inspection??? not me, thats for sure. It was done by an INDEPENDENT specialist. And RJN are not doing the rebuild on Giles's car, they have worked on it, but not the engine, so sorry Val, wrong again. don't get your knickers in a twist, I'm really not that bothered about the whole issue at a personal level tbh... unlike you seem to be. yeah i am speculating, and I can speculate as much as I like Retrospective isnt what I'd call this, which is a direct quote from Peter from March this year. You can believe what you like, thats your right. But as you clearly dont have all the facts in front of you, all you can do is speculate. but hasn't Giles's car blown up in february? I call that retrospectively IIRC when you lot were buying the TT kit you knew about the oil pan that should have been included, noone ever mentioned the APS zorst as being mandatory... Certaintly noone mentioned it at the first NW dyno day whent he G-Force guys were up... What if i applied that logic to your car, how would you feel?? say if i said that your plenum distorting and ruining your £70 worth of paint on it?? would you be happy with '@*!# happens'??? I hazard a guess not, and come on, thats not how you reacted, you wanted the lot paying for, paint and all. Quite founded??? still rumours, not fact. the difference is that Kinetix has honoured their LIFETIME warranty and no you can't make the comparison, as there was only myself and kinetix, no installation from a third party involved. Now if on the other hand my engine blew up and tried to get it done under warranty, I would have accepted the risk I took into installing it, there's no toher way around it really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was present at the independant ru ( as were many others) it was up north not far from Oulton and I can vouch that it ran 401. And that was on a VERY cold morning too, I doubt that given the conditions the temperature of his engine (he stayed locally overnight) that there was another 25 BHP in it. G Force had a tendency to overinflate the tyres to increase the bhp. Dont ask me how exactly it works but ive seen people cheat that way before! Have you ever tried rolling a flat tyred wheel then - its much harder, so on the rollers the flatter the tyre the more power it absorbs and the lower the power figure recorded. The more balloon like the tyre the less power to roll it along but no way you run that high pressure on the road I agree but surely you run the tyres at road pressure ( in order to gain the true at the wheel figure, so its similar to real world rather than inflate them to 50psi and get an (pardon the pun) over inflated figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 I was present at the independant ru ( as were many others) it was up north not far from Oulton and I can vouch that it ran 401. And that was on a VERY cold morning too, I doubt that given the conditions the temperature of his engine (he stayed locally overnight) that there was another 25 BHP in it. G Force had a tendency to overinflate the tyres to increase the bhp. Dont ask me how exactly it works but ive seen people cheat that way before! Have you ever tried rolling a flat tyred wheel then - its much harder, so on the rollers the flatter the tyre the more power it absorbs and the lower the power figure recorded. The more balloon like the tyre the less power to roll it along but no way you run that high pressure on the road I agree but surely you run the tyres at road pressure ( in order to gain the true at the wheel figure, so its similar to real world rather than inflate them to 50psi and get an (pardon the pun) over inflated figure You'd think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptist Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 course I would! Just saying it's a difficult situation for Giles due to the above reasons. Right you are then. don't get your knickers in a twist, I'm really not that bothered about the whole issue at a personal level tbh... unlike you seem to be. yeah i am speculating, and I can speculate as much as I like No, Im just keeping this fact based, so rumours and speculation detract from the issue at hand. You throwing things in like Gforces demo car blowing up, when you dont have any evidence, dont help what is being explained. I've made this post to warn potential APS buyers what to look for in whats being sold. Call it, 'for the good of the community' if you like. I'd hate to see another person chuck 10 grand at their car and for it to break due to the negligence of an tuner. but hasn't Giles's car blown up in february? I call that retrospectively IIRC when you lot were buying the TT kit you knew about the oil pan that should have been included, noone ever mentioned the APS zorst as being mandatory... Certaintly noone mentioned it at the first NW dyno day whent he G-Force guys were up... Which proves this whole issue, we werent made aware, I got away likely, Giles did not. Fact is, we should have been made aware, that is the whole point!!!! APS made that statement after the event, as up until then it obviously hadnt been an issue. the difference is that Kinetix has honoured their LIFETIME warranty and no you can't make the comparison, as there was only myself and kinetix, no installation from a third party involved. Now if on the other hand my engine blew up and tried to get it done under warranty, I would have accepted the risk I took into installing it, there's no toher way around it really... Its still the kit as a product that is at fault, as in, its incomplete. The fact that it was incomplete caused the problem. Sale of goods act, read up on it and come back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 IMO you can't expect APS themselves to foot any bill though tbh. As you said, if they sustain that they did warn all agents to use the exhaust, surely it'd be down to the agent and not the main manufacturer? have you got proof of the contrary? So no, the kit in their eyes wasn't incomplete at all. Again, it all points to the dealer and you in this case would not be able to do anything about that. So if APS does anything it would only be a goodwill gesture, but would also set a "dangerous" precendent: ie a tuner does a shite job and you go back to APS asking for compensation. I don't know , as I sd before Giles's situation is surely difficult but at the same time you keep on trying to "accuse" everyone and anyone (APS for telling or not telling their dealers about the zorst, the dealers for selling the exhausts sparately despite being included in the kits, then APS for not coming up with some compensation because the dealer has gone bust)while really imo it's just a chain of events that made the whole issue really difficult to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintshield Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 HI Guys I am going not going into the technical side of the discussion as that has been well covered on this board and elswhere however there is a point on the Business side of it that I feel I can contribute to. In a strict legal sense APS may have no liability to Giles IF they CAN PROVE that the bulletin was issued prior to this catastrophe. They will not be able to rely on their published information if it was felt that the customer had no reasonable opportunity to evaluate the risks. We face similar situations with Independent installers who purchase our products lets say they screw up an install am I liable for the install, Not at all I have supplied the product to someone else and legally and morally that is an end to it. HOWEVER there are sometimes extreme cases where something has clearly gone badly wrong, where as a businessman you can CHOOSE to pick up the tab. There are those on here and in the otherplace that will confirm WE HAVE done this occassionally. I do not do this because I am a nice guy (which everyone knows that I am) I do this because: A) it makes sound business sense, and because sometimes it is just the right thing to do, and C) because it is always better to protect your brand image (as opposed to having Your Leg lifted). IMHO Were this me and were Aps my company, on this occassion I would step into the frame. I would do this for a whole raft of reasons I will not list here ( I would not want to limit Giles wiggle room). Frankly I personally feel, knowing all the facts as I do, APS should step up ,because it would be cheaper in the long run and will harm the reputation of their WHOLE distribution network (Think about this), business is about confidence and lose customer confidence, you will be down the dole faster than you can Blink. Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prescience Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Tom, That's a great post if I may say so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptist Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 It is upto the dealer, yes. It would be a good will gesture on APS's part to sort this. But that has not been my point on this topic, it is a warning to all users to make sure that the FULL kit is fitted. Giles's car has served as an example to illustrate this. then APS for not coming up with some compensation because the dealer has gone bust When did I say that Val???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 HI Guys I am going not going into the technical side of the discussion as that has been well covered on this board and elswhere however there is a point on the Business side of it that I feel I can contribute to. In a strict legal sense APS may have no liability to Giles IF they CAN PROVE that the bulletin was issued prior to this catastrophe. They will not be able to rely on their published information if it was felt that the customer had no reasonable opportunity to evaluate the risks. We face similar situations with Independent installers who purchase our products lets say they screw up an install am I liable for the install, Not at all I have supplied the product to someone else and legally and morally that is an end to it. HOWEVER there are sometimes extreme cases where something has clearly gone badly wrong, where as a businessman you can CHOOSE to pick up the tab. There are those on here and in the otherplace that will confirm WE HAVE done this occassionally. I do not do this because I am a nice guy (which everyone knows that I am) I do this because: A) it makes sound business sense, and because sometimes it is just the right thing to do, and C) because it is always better to protect your brand image (as opposed to having Your Leg lifted). IMHO Were this me and were Aps my company, on this occassion I would step into the frame. I would do this for a whole raft of reasons I will not list here ( I would not want to limit Giles wiggle room). Frankly I personally feel, knowing all the facts as I do, APS should step up ,because it would be cheaper in the long run and will harm the reputation of their WHOLE distribution network (Think about this), business is about confidence and lose customer confidence, you will be down the dole faster than you can Blink. Cheers Tom agreed. Point is though, how much do they REALLY care about such a small market for the 350Z in the UK? their profits lie elsewhere... it'd be NICE of them to do something though. Seen as when Giles posted on the US boards (where the real 350Z market is for them) Peter seemed to be quite accomodating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 then APS for not coming up with some compensation because the dealer has gone bust When did I say that Val???? don't remember, you've been moaning the whole thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptist Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 don't remember, you've been moaning the whole thread! Very accurately illustrated there Val! I'd call it making a point. All fact based I might add, I dont fabricate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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