chubbster

TVR = Telephone Vehicle Recovery - - - - but they sound so sweet.

Ah, so it's actually covered by the Public Order Act, that makes a bit more sense then. Ta.

 

I still don't think you could prove both using insulting language and intent/likely to cause racial hatred. The first probably, the latter no chance. He definitely won't (and shouldn't IMHO) be sacked, I don't think there's enough pressure for that plus TG is too big a cash cow.

Sportsman's bet?

Stuff

stuff II

Cheers Ekona. The following clip, taken from the CPS website, is quite interesting and to the point LINK HERE...

"Incitement to racial hatred

This offence is committed when the accused person says or does something which is threatening, abusive or insulting and, by doing so, either intends to stir up racial hatred, or makes it likely that racial hatred will be stirred up. This can include such things as making a speech, displaying a racist poster, publishing written material, performing a play or broadcasting something in the media.

One of the first things we have to prove for this offence is whether the behaviour is threatening, abusive or insulting. These words are given their normal meaning but the courts have ruled that behaviour can be annoying, rude or even offensive without necessarily being insulting.

We also have to consider whether the offender intended to stir up racial hatred or whether racial hatred was likely to result. Hatred is a very strong emotion. Stirring up racial tension, opposition, even hostility may not necessarily be enough to amount to an offence.

Sometimes it may be obvious that a person intends to cause racial hatred, for example, when a person makes a public speech condemning a group of people because of their race and deliberately encouraging others to turn against them and perhaps commit acts of violence. Usually, however, the evidence is not so clear-cut and we may have to rely upon people's actions in order to infer their intention.

If we are not able to prove that someone intended to stir up racial hatred, we have to show that, in all the circumstances, hatred was likely to be stirred up. 'Likely' does not mean that racial hatred was simply possible. We therefore have to examine the context of any behaviour very carefully, in particular the likely audience, as this will be highly relevant.

These offences appear in the Public Order Act 1986, which is generally designed to prevent acts of violence, disorder, harm or threats. Although it will often be present, the risk of commission of a criminal act of this nature is not essential to prove the commission of an offence of stirring up hatred on the grounds of race.

When people hate others because of race, such hatred may become manifest in the commission of crimes motivated by hate, or in abuse, discrimination or prejudice. Such reactions will vary from person to person, but all hatred has a detrimental effect on both individual victims and society, and this is a relevant factor to take into account when considering whether a prosecution is appropriate.

It is essential in a free, democratic and tolerant society that people are able robustly to exchange views, even when these may cause offence. However, we have to balance the rights of the individual to freedom of expression against the duty of the state to act proportionately in the interests of public safety, to prevent disorder and crime, and to protect the rights of others.

As these decisions involve questions of public policy, a specialist team of lawyers based at CPS Headquarters reviews the police file in all such cases and decides whether there is enough evidence. In addition, a case of incitement to racial hatred cannot be brought without the permission of the Attorney General, who is the senior Law Officer for the Crown.

The law only covers acts that are intended, or are likely to stir up, racial hatred. Whilst the definition of what constitutes "race" or "racial" is wide, it is clear that it does not cover "religious" hatred."

I haven't been selective, just copy/pasted the relevant bit. I reckon if I were a barrister I could have a pretty good crack at a conviction in this case. I don't think it will happen, but I'm waiting to see what pressure the BBC comes under in the next few days. They're already on the back foot and can't afford to be seen to be complacent, so this may have been Clarkson's last gaff.

The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so.

What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge.

The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one.

 

I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side.

 

...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done?

Thanks for replying.

 

So you believe he should be charged for inciting racial hatred, correct? But you decline to say what punishment you think he should get for that, why? Conviction is not a punishment. Should it be community service, jail, execution? You must have an opinion on this, I'm sure.

 

I'm not defending his usage of the word, nor the phrase, what I am is against the witch hunt over nothing. At worst it's casual racism, but really I struggle to see why suddenly it's the biggest crime in the world and headline news. It wasn't broadcast, and I would imagine at least 10-20 people had seen that clip either when it was recorded or when the editing was happening, so are we to charge them with casual racism as none of them reported it? At what point do we all stop being offended on the behalf of other people?

 

Ironically, and maybe it's because I don't read The Mirror, but I've yet to see a single black person complain about this. Should they not be the most offended here?

 

If you genuinely believe that I'm a racist because I dared to write the word n***** when it is being used in the context of a debate, then I genuinely feel sorry for you. Would I use it in person? In the same context of discussion, yes. Would I use it in person in the rhyme? Well, no. Would I use it when singing along to a rap song (secret fact: I'm a massive Snoop Dogg fan!)? Yup. Would I ever use it casual conversation? Absolutely not. However, we shouldn't suddenly be afraid to ever use a word when there's legitimate use for it. English is a great language, and whilst we clearly have some words that are no longer used in their original meaning because they are offensive, that doesn't mean we should never write them down when having a reasoned debate, or for educational purposes. That applies to everything, not the specific term in question here, and is a personal viewpoint.

 

 

So here's a very straightforward and direct question for you: Should the word be removed from society full stop? I'm including all art forms in that, so music & films. Should a black person be prosecuted for referring to a friend in the same manner? If not, why?

Thanks for the measured reply Ekona (more than a little better than thinking that telling me to 'get a life' somehow adds to the debate!) - To answer your question, I actually did say what I think should happen to Mr Clarkson. To elaborate slightly on what I said, I think he should be convicted and given a conditional discharge (ie no further punishment), on conditon that he agrees to refrain from using racist language in future. I think that would be fair.

Now may I ask you a simple question in return? If a primary school teacher sang this rhyme in front of a class of children, in your opinion would they be breaking the law? Yes or No?

As you can imagine, I don't think there is such a thing as 'casual racism'. Singing this racist rhyme is not 'the biggest crime in the world', but, as I hope you agree, it's still a crime. It actually doesn't matter what color anyone's skin is - a crime is a crime. Everyone should be offended by a person making racist remarks, not just black people, because it damages and debases humanity - along with the many other bad things people do.

To be fair, I think you have a good point about being able to use any word in the context of debate - you're absolutely right. If you were using the n word in that context I'd fiercely defend your right to do it. I just wouldn't use it myself, in any context. I apologise if I've taken your use of the word out of context - but I condemn you if you used it as a racist slur. I should have re-read your post, but I didn't.

To answer your final questions, no, the arts should not be censored in any way. If someone breaks the law through their art we have plenty of laws to deal with it. If you start banning words from the arts you will inevitably be preventing artists from making a case against things like racism. Censorship of the arts (like racism) is one of the first acts of a facist state. And finally - if a word is unacceptable, it's unacceptable for all - so I think it should not be used by anyone, black, white, green, grey or pinstriped.

I'm not trying to upset anyone here, but I have my views. And as for the people who find this boring - don't read it if you find it boring. There are plenty of other things to do. Personally, I feel it's quite important.

I wrote the word n****. Does that make me racist too?

 

FFS folks, get a grip. As has already been said, why is it okay for black Americans to use nigga as freely as I would use the word mate? Yes, there's a certain amount of trying to reclaim the word, and I get that totally, but it's hardly conducive to making a world where either version of the word is unacceptable to be used.

 

 

@Chubbster: What would you arrest him for? And what should his punishment be?

The word itself, on its own, in no other context, can be considered as incitement to racial hatred, but in addition to this, the heinous context in which it was used (as part of a well-known racist rhyme, whilst knowingly being filmed for a national TV show) makes it uncontestably so.

What would you say if your child's schoolteacher used this rhyme and got your child's class to recite it? Would you be defending that person too? I'm very surprised that someone as astute as you is questioning this. You ask what should his punishment be?... whatever the law of our country decides, if he were to be found guilty. Personally I think in this particular situation a conviction would be punishment enough, but I am not the judge.

The " I tried not to say it" excuse is pitifully similar to the sort of thing a seven year old would say to his teacher, but less excusable, because he isn't a seven year old, he just behaves like one.

I cannot fathom why you are trying to defend a man who has admitted that he was totally wrong - Even he is not on your side.

...and if you want to provoke me into answering the question in your first sentence - clearly the answer is yes - and you seem to be quite comfortable there. I feel sad that you are happy to parade this disgusting word as you do. Why not apologise, as Mr. Clarkson quite rightly has already done?

Firstly - I'd think twice about repainting them unless they're badly scuffed, because they're a classic, sexy colour. Gold Brembos are lovely.

Secondly, if you're determined to do it, DO NOT BUY THAT CHEAP CRAP PAINT OFF EBAY. It will be brilliant for your girlfriend's nail polish, but it's @*!# for brakes.

Foliatec paint (which is also on ebay) is not cheap, but it's good quality.

Yes, you can pay someone else to do them - but make sure they use suitable paint and only use someone you trust.

If you do it yourself, preparation is the key. Take your time, clean properly and paint slowly.

...What I do think is intriguing is the question of the ethics of someone leaking potentially sensitive and offensive outtakes outside an organisation that employs them.

With respect, I think that argument's already been won - whistleblowers rule and so they should. The important challenge (and the theme of this thread) continues to be racism. Let's not get diverted.

Thanks - good tip.

His video response is the pleading of a man who thinks he's commited a criminal offence and is squirming and wriggling for fear of the consequences. It's about time the fear of the law made him cringe. He knows he went too far this time and I enjoyed seeing him shrink for once. It doesn't matter how many racists try to defend him, or say it doesn't matter, or attempt to find excuses for him - he apologises because he knows the truth (which, strangely, some posters on this thread choose not to acknowledge) - and if you watch that disgusting video you'll see the truth too. He's a racist, like many many others, and now he's worried that in the current climate of targetting well-known faces he could get arrested. In my opinion he should be arrested, charged and tried. The evidence is there. One day it will all catch up with him - personally I hope that this is the day. Commit the crime, do the time.

Just my opinion.

Nice paint job there Chubbster...I think I might get mine in the spray booth too

 

I was very impressed at how well these drive over carpet...if only they could drive up the stairs then my cats would really get a god chase haha.

 

S.

My cats get a good chasing too

You need to try it on a wood floor. I was doing doughnuts with my R/c 350.

Powerslides are possible!

I want I mean need one of these ^^^

Hope they got them in silver

Sadly they're only in yellow (if they've got any left) - they were on special offer a week ago, alongside a silver/grey amg merc.

I have a 370, but have owned 2 x 350s and I may be up for a meet now and again (if a nice McMullen's countryside pub's included - soft drinks only, of course). I'm a few miles south of StEvenage. I've pm'd you.

Oh and anyone who would kill birds just for crapping on a car is a moron.

Absolutely right. How can anyone delude themselves into thinking they have the right to kill for no reason? They don't. That's what facists do.

Got one last week and modded it already (don't like yellow)...

The op is right - it's excellent value.

Hi. Is it possible to have the 370z Cobra cat back system (resonated) with T34 4" inward roll slash cut tips?

Thanks for posting the video - sounds nice.

Hi Baiden. Male or female?

Yes - I rather knew it was a house of cards. Dance offs sort out the men from the girls - every time.

well - after a bottle of my favourite kooliba red shiraz from Aldi (only £3.99 - and the best plonk I've ever tasted) ...I'm happyish

 

Roll out the resprayed zed - come to think of it, that went blue the same time Faye's did ? Are you the same person ? Schizophrenia ?

 

I think you're taking this thread off-topic and should be reprimanded, sir. We are merely extending a warm welcome to a new member of our fraternity. Please do not attempt to divert us from out honourable course.

 

God Bless Her - and all who sail in her

 

Aye aye captain

 

Welcome aboard Faye

 

Steady as she goes mr Zulu (sulu but better with a zed )

We're entering uncharted waters here, Mr Spock - I don't like the looks of it. These new creatures look harmless enough, but one can never be too careful. I am relying on your - how can I put it - charm. Keep it up - you're doing well so far.

well - after a bottle of my favourite kooliba red shiraz from Aldi (only £3.99 - and the best plonk I've ever tasted) ...I'm happyish

 

Roll out the resprayed zed - come to think of it, that went blue the same time Faye's did ? Are you the same person ? Schizophrenia ?

I think you're taking this thread off-topic and should be reprimanded, sir. We are merely extending a warm welcome to a new member of our fraternity. Please do not attempt to divert us from out honourable course.

God Bless Her - and all who sail in her

Jesus Christ - just read the opening post - That is SO annoying. People like that - grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :rant: :rant:

What do they think it is????? A ****ing CAR OR SOMETHING??????

Don't these morons realise???

God it makes me angry.

The hours of love and care and devotion - they bloody don't deserve it - idiots.

Bloody idiots.

Bloody ****ing idiots.

****ing idiots.

Idiots.

****ing idiots.

Oh I am so annoyed.

I am FUMING

iDIOT

Bloody caps lock grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

:rofl:

well - after a bottle of my favourite kooliba red shiraz from Aldi (only £3.99 - and the best plonk I've ever tasted) ...I'm happyish

Don't do it man ! She's got like 14 pages and you've only got 4, it'll be a massacre !

I done it - I done it!!! Yay - she's ****in mincemeat

This is all very well, but Sam, are you a girl ffs?

Hi miss fairlady zee :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

Edit - :flowers: the internet won't allow me any more flowers