DavidS14

always been slightly unsure of drilled discs as i've heard they crack more easily, hence i was tempted by the grooved only option.

 

but if they are better than hey ho, they seem to be the choice to go for.

 

also when you look at them they seem to have different surface finishes between ultimax and turbo grooved.

I don't really like drilled discs unless it's for a track car where performance of the braking system is paramount i.e. cost and replacement times are not important.

Grooved discs on the other hand are a good compromise that give you some of the benefits of drilled without the major drawbacks.

Again I'll dredge up a previous post from the SXOC (sorry again )

Plain Disc - Good for moderate duty as the transfer film (what the pad deposit on the disc) is unbroken this gives a stable coefficient of friction at low to moderate temperatures. Bad for higher speed/temperature applications as this transfer film will degenerate and give unstable friction and can cause "hot spotting" of the disc leading to cracking and failure. This design also maintains heat longer and so will be more prone to fade under repeated braking.

 

Grooved - Good for almost all applications. The grooving does two things, first it clears the pad surface of carbonised debris (which is generated at high temperatures due to a lot of pad materials using phenoylic resin as a binder) and also allows the vapours that are generated at the pad face during hard braking to escape allowing a better contact between pad face and rotor and minimising fade.

 

Drilled - Good for almost all applications.

Drilled discs give most of the benefits of grooved but have other good/bad points. They allow the discs to cool faster due to lower thermal mass and larger surface area (but this is speed dependant as at higher rpm's the vortex the discs create does impact the amount of cooling air that the discs see via the holes) but the down side of this is that we noted more surface cracking on drilled discs than grooved, we thought this may be due to faster thermal cycling. We also noted that on some drilled discs unless the holes were countersunk you could see cracks developing from the hole edges.

 

Grooved & Drilled - See above for plus/minus points.

I think that we need to get some terminology correct, OEM is what Nissan fit when the cars leave the factory, any pads that are fitted after that time unless supplied and/or fitted by Nissan will be Aftermarket materials.

Here's a couple of posts I made on the SXOC when we had a similar discussion:

The problem with looking at standard pads is that when your car comes from Nissan it has the brake material that was developed for the car fitted. This material will have done thousands of stops on dyno's as well as mules so it will be well suited to what the makers consider to be normal use. Now aftermarket pads are usually made from one of two or three general materials that are used for all applications. This is why you might like the bite or performance of you OEM pads but are disappointed when you go to a motor factor and buy replacements. Even if you buy them from Nissan you may or may not get the OEM material, you may get the aftermarket stuff, depending on how many OE pad sets Nissan had manufactured. If you want high friction at low speed then you want the maximum disc contact (no grooves) and a pad with a high metal content. DS2500's are really a compromise because they are a performance pad but they have friction modifiers that help boost lower temp performance which is why people like them. They get the fade free performance but still the confidence of enough cold bite.

 

I think that maybe project mu pads might be worth a try, they have a high metal content which is why they don't give much dust and Simon says he prefers them to the DS's but the trade off I think will be disc wear.

With std or maybe aftermarket then you'll usually cook the pads before you start permanently damaging the discs, as the binders are not brilliant and the metal content are pretty low. You'll get the system to a certain temperature when the coefficient of friction (mu) generated by the pad/disc will usually drop dramatically, this is usually described as "fade".

 

Now if you are only occasionally entering this temperature zone then you can usually get away with better pads (higher metal content and more stable binders) which will give you a higher temperature ceiling. The problem with this is that because the system cannot dissipate the energy very efficiently the extra overhead you get can be limited. Having a few grooves in the brake discs will also help at this stage as when the disc/pad interface starts to brake down then the debris/gases can exit the pads fave using the grooves. Now fitting better and better pads can lead to a false sense of security because the fade has gone away you think everything is OK but it's not. It just means that you are now overcooking the discs/calipers but the pads are probably still inside their performance envelope.

 

If you go to the next stage i.e you regularly enter this temperature zone then just better pad material will not work as you'll soon overheat the disc/calipers/fluid. Now you could either try to keep the standard set up cooler by increasing wheel clearance and running dedicated air ducting to both sides of the disc. When we were developing DS we would use the ducting first as it was the cheapest and easiest. With good ducting you can cool the whole system down and maintain brake efficiency but this also has it's limits (maximum airflow/space/pressure considerations). Another method of improving braking would be to increase the surface area of the system. This increases the maximum heat dissipation but is usually detremental to the unsprung weight. This can be easily acheived by using a bigger disc which not only gives you a larger swept area but more surface area/mass but you still retain the std. pad/disc contact area. This will not give you a higher temperature ceiling but will take longer to get there or may not get there if it's a certain part of the track that's heavy on the brakes with a long non/light braking section between. A lot of people have used tis method with good results (Bren's 310mm kit is an excellent example). Again you could improve the heat dissipation further by using ducting. With a big disc/ducted setup I think that you should be safe for most track days.

 

Now if you give your brakes death then you need to go to the next stage which would be bigger discs and calipers. This increases the mass, gives you a larger swept area and also increases the contact area of the pads. With this set up you are also at the stage where the disc design can also be optimised (cooling galleries etc) which will maximise heat dissipation and minimise the increase in mass. Again ducting can improve thing further (if required).

 

You need to match the entire system to the kind of braking you are going to do. As we all know you can't upgrade one part of a system in isolation and then expect everything else to be able to "work harder" to match. For most people who like fast road driving then the fist mod route is OK as better pads with give more confidence as they "bite" rather than feel wooden but most road driving allows the system to recover before being called on again but you can still overwhelm the brakes by having limited recovery time. For road use I would say that the bigger disc method should be capable of handling all situations ( I know I should put most and not all but I think you would have to drive like a t*at on public roads to cook them). Track drivers are another case entirely, they need maximum performance (matched to the car) and minimum recovery time.

 

As a general guide:

Normal driving : Fit better pads (more confidence and feel)

Fast Road Driving : Minimum of Better pads/grooved discs but Bigger rotor/better pads recommended (more confidence and feel + fade resistance).

Track Days : Minimum Bigger rotor/better pads but caliper/disc/pad upgrade recommended.

 

If you are on a budget then the ducting idea would be the first thing to try as you can DIY and it's interesting doing the testing as to what works and what doesn't

 

I feel like death having been out at a stag do last night and only been up for an hour so spelling/english allowances will have to be made but hopefully you'll get the drift.

I worked on the development team for the DS range of materials for Ferodo so I know all the work that went into them and the competitor materials we tested at the time. We had dynos with a full suspension/wheel setup with a rolling road beneath and we could alter the loading/speed and the environment in the test cell (temperature and humidity) so we could play with a lot of material changes, pad designs etc.

Sorry for the long post

People who because your office is quiet, tidy and clean insist that it's the best place to eat their dinner.

The a fore mentioned people whilst eating their dinner trying to chat to you when you are working because you have to try and fit your breaks in when you have time.

Working solid all day and finally getting a break late afternoon and having a late dinner only to be get funny looks as to why you're having a non scheduled break.

People with no hands on ability who cherry pick the work so that you get all the installation/fault finding/repairs/climbing over plant and they get the checking the stores and doing the ordering/faxes/phone calls.

Never getting any recognition when you work above and beyond to hit a deadline, is "thanks for getting that done, I appreciate the effort it took" so bl00dy difficult to say ?

Not being considered for advancement as you've been told that if you were to move up none of the work you currently do would not get done so they need you where you are. Hello,

I'm in a department of seven here for gods sake doesn't that tell you something ?

A little girl asks her mum, 'Mum, can I take the dog for a walk around the block?'

Her mum replies 'No, because she is on heat.'

'What does that mean?' asked the child.

'Go and ask your father. I think he's in the garage.'

The little girl goes out to the garage and says, 'Dad, can I take Lulu for a walk around the block? I asked Mum, but she said the dog was on the heat, and to come ask you.'

He took a rag, soaked it in petrol, and scrubbed the dog's backside with it to disguise the scent, and said 'Ok, you can go now, but keep Lulu on the leash and only go one time around the block.'

The little girl left and returned a few minutes later with no dog on the leash…..

Surprised, Dad asked, 'Where's Lulu?'

The little girl said, 'She ran out of petrol about halfway round the block, but it's alright, another dog is pushing her home.'

Welcome

Good to see you've got the promise of pictures in early

Most apt one for the forum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picture ... ml?image=2

I saw an R34 in Rugby with some blue ones fitted so they must be good

whats wrong with just diving the same car like everyone else, why do people have to go and fiddle

I'm a PC gamer and just cannot get on with consoles, less options and everything has to be dumbed down when compared to PC versions.

Don't game as much as I used to but was going to get MW2 until I started reading up on the hatchet job.

Don't do anything I wou..............nope that would still get you arrested.

Have a great time

wHEN ARE THESE ON?

I download them via usenet, the new seasons in the US started a few of weeks ago.

Well ep3 is up and I think I'll stick with it for now, seem to be doing that lately with new seasons starting and other new shows.

I'm currently watching, House, Supernatural, Doll House, Criminal Minds, Numbers, Dexter, Fringe, NCIS, Mad Men, Warehouse 13, The Mentalist, Lie to Me and a few others.

Don't watch normal TV any more except for the news and the odd program just the above and movies

Agree with the trickle charger

My 200 is sometimes in the garage for a while so I've wired up a socket down at the front of the car so I can plug

it in from the outside (nice rubber cap to keep the dirt/water out) so no messing having to connect/disconnect

the charger.

There are a few guys on the SXOC who use the solar ones and say they are OK if you have no access

to power and the car is outside.

Where are you based ?

Did 5 and then saw something shiny so got distracted

Agreed but the info in the article was taken from tests on a Supra though so they may be more restrictive as it doesn't say what mods it has

(or may do if you can read the Japanese original)

Not sure if you guys have seen this, it's a few years old but shows a comparison between different filter types on filtration and any power gains.

Looking at the figures the standard inlet/filter must be pretty restrictive to give the gains just by swapping filters.

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

And the Revspeed original test (in Japanese) http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filter ... index.html

Have a look at http://350z-tech.com/zwiki/Brake_Pad_Bedding for a good guide on bedding.

Dragging the brakes is usually a bad idea and not recommended for a bedding procedure as you'll get parts of the disc/pad hotter than others with

the constant contact rather than allowing the whole system to warm up which is what you get from separate applications.

If the pads have an additional high friction layer at the surface then the bedding time should be reduced but you still need to get

the pads up to a decent temperature to get rid of the surface resins. The high friction layer is more beneficial when fitting new pads

on ols discs as it allows any surface film from the old pads to be removed quickly as the new pads bed in.

I've still got my SX and had a similar issue with a clunk when taking up the drive a clicking sometimes when under load.

Mine turned out to be the CV joints on the driveshafts. The outer casing was slightly deformed so there was a slight bulge on each of the flat areas which allowed

too much play in the joint. I replaced them with some second hand spares from another member on the SXOC forum and all's well.

Here's a pic from another forum member who had the same issue but his was much worse than mine.

Some of the other known issues causing the clunk on drive are play in the diff and failed rear subframe bushes.

Get him to stick a post up in the Technical S14 section on SXOC.com

Are you sure that they are the rims that the car went in with ?

Or is there another Z with a spanking set of just refurbed Rays out there which had some damaged ones only a few days ago as you said that the blue spot you remember was missing ?

I told them when we got issued these vests that they didn't give enough support up top for the more "rubenesque" figure....

Sorry for your loss and a very worth while cause (raffle box left unticked )

Found this after a quick search http://www.whatcar.com/news-special-rep ... EL=3150062

I think it all depends on what he's signed and how he paid the deposit.

I remember reading that if you pull out for cause (car not as described or not expected quality etc) then the dealer can keep the deposit but they have to prove that the deposit

was to cover costs that they incurred otherwise you can take them to the small claims court to get some of it back.

I'd contact Trading Standards rather than the CAB.

I'm in Rugby and still looking for the right Z

You really have to bed in new pads/discs.

When we used to dyno/track test them it made a huge difference in performance having the pads and discs bedded in as opposed to not and the differences were not just at the start of pad/disc life but extended well into their lifetime. Getting the pad/disc interface right isn't difficult but needs to be done carefully so that you get the best out of them. If you don't bed them in every set of pads or discs you fit to the car can act differently depending on their initial use rather than having them pretty much the same every time.

When we had to do a trial on pads that we did not have time to bed in properly (usually track testing) then we would scortch the pad surface on a hotplate to burn off the surface resins before fitting. This would minimise the potential for glazing of the pad surface and disc surface deposits but it's not recommended for the road.