Baptist

Id more inclined to go with a proven make, rather than some brakes because you like the look of them. And pink??????

If you have a UK car, you will definitley have VDC, its all the computer gubbins that controls your traction control etc. Fitting the Nismo wheels wont affect this at all, just make sure you get the right size tyres to maintain stagger, or that will throw the VDC on your car.

The Vortech is about the best of the kits produced, I used to own one, had zero issues and it fits perfectly. (when fitted by a competant mechanic)

A friend that you've actually met!! know him well, then.

Thats nots the one Im talking about, which is what he last did it on. Oh well, I've seen it in action.

Nowt wrong with my vision, its not showing. Not on the previous post you did it on.

Well it aint fixed as you just proved, as you edited after a reply and it didnt show. Ok, lock it, its your usual method.

And you just did it again there!!!!!! It only read "OK sure" until you read my post. (still not showing your edit, even after replies) PMSL............priceless.

Haha, here you go satellite, I'll give you a hand..... Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Im adding to this post as it seems that another post has been edited post the fact. Is there not a function on the Forum software that allows a user to see that a post has been edited? I know that someone should be allowed to edit their comments but it alters the conversation when points that were made earlier are now deleted. Very frustrating. Especially after days of discussion.

Sorry Val, it was Dash and Dorian that brought it up, so guess what, wrong again!!!! lol

Which version have I not read properly??? until Chris sorted that today, its been going on for a while. Hence why this post started. Now who's not reading things properly. LOL

I think the annoying part is that you go back days later and re-edit your posts to change the look of the discussion on the thread. That was my original gripe on this thread, nice to see Im not alone.

Very accurately illustrated there Val! I'd call it making a point. All fact based I might add, I dont fabricate things.

Handy.

It is upto the dealer, yes. It would be a good will gesture on APS's part to sort this. But that has not been my point on this topic, it is a warning to all users to make sure that the FULL kit is fitted. Giles's car has served as an example to illustrate this. When did I say that Val????

Right you are then. No, Im just keeping this fact based, so rumours and speculation detract from the issue at hand. You throwing things in like Gforces demo car blowing up, when you dont have any evidence, dont help what is being explained. I've made this post to warn potential APS buyers what to look for in whats being sold. Call it, 'for the good of the community' if you like. I'd hate to see another person chuck 10 grand at their car and for it to break due to the negligence of an tuner. Which proves this whole issue, we werent made aware, I got away likely, Giles did not. Fact is, we should have been made aware, that is the whole point!!!! APS made that statement after the event, as up until then it obviously hadnt been an issue. Its still the kit as a product that is at fault, as in, its incomplete. The fact that it was incomplete caused the problem. Sale of goods act, read up on it and come back to me.

Dont torture yourselves! enjoy what you've got. You just cant keep up, thats where the manufacturers want you to be, always wanting the next model!

That was GForce's dyno. GForce were renownned for inflating power figures. The car was dyno'd elsewhere (I'll get the name of it) just before the car went pop. On that dyno it was showing 401 BHP.

The car was independantly dyno'd the day before it went bang, showing a peak HP figure of 401 bhp (at the flywheel), that is 1 bhp different to what your saying you tune your cars too. The back pressure thermal loading issues have been commented on by the experts, and that is what caused the problem. Bottom line is that the exhaust was wrong. As a consumer, you are covered by the Sale of goods act, which Giles sought legal advice on. The problem he encountered with persuing this claim is GForce ceasing trading and popping up under a new name with new management, problem solved for them. With regard to your visits, if more people spoke up about the service they have received from you, you might be inclined to visit more frequently.

Problem is, with these things, people are usually loathed to speak up on public forums about bad service from places they have been, as things tend to get hushed up/swept under the carpet, for the fear of legal action or being called a trouble maker. Giles has decided to make his case know on the public forum, so why shouldnt people know what is happening. I have known all the goings on with his problems, but kept quiet, as he wanted to deal with it out of the public eye for his own reasons, which were respected. I made the point that people should stipulate that the exhaust is fitted as mandatory to their cars, and the question was asked why that is so important, so best example is Giles's car, which was used to illustrate this point. Vendors are more than happy to come to these forums when they can get another sale out of it, but when it comes to problems with their service, its a totally different story.

Your telling me that if you had spent that kind of money on a kit, and it hadnt been installed as it should, you wouldnt seek some compensation?? Its packaged as complete tuning solution, that is within the safety limits of the engines capacity for power. ps, Get your facts right, who said that RJN did the inspection??? not me, thats for sure. It was done by an INDEPENDENT specialist. And RJN are not doing the rebuild on Giles's car, they have worked on it, but not the engine, so sorry Val, wrong again. Retrospective isnt what I'd call this, which is a direct quote from Peter from March this year. You can believe what you like, thats your right. But as you clearly dont have all the facts in front of you, all you can do is speculate. "It has always been APS’s intent that the twin turbo system be sold only with the APS true dual exhaust in Europe, this is the way in which we sell/offer the product to all Europeans and I’m very surprised that the turbo system was offered to you without the exhaust, this we will take up with G Force. With a restrictive exhaust the thermal load on the engine would be massive and this certainly contributes to detonation. I would never fit the type of restrictive exhaust you have currently on a twin turbo engine, the exhaust back pressure would be extremely high at 8 to 9 PSI turbo pressure." . What if i applied that logic to your car, how would you feel?? say if i said that your plenum distorting and ruining your £70 worth of paint on it?? would you be happy with '@*!# happens'??? I hazard a guess not, and come on, thats not how you reacted, you wanted the lot paying for, paint and all. Quite founded??? still rumours, not fact. Who knows indeed.

Thing is Val, if you pay someone top dollar to fit a kit, then you should not experience such problems. You rely on them knowing what they are doing. Would save you some dosh though.

Its a tricky one, made worse by the dealers folding and restarting under a new name. GForce were the first port of call, yes. At the end of the day the kit was sold as not fit for purpose, as components were missing. APS should make sure that the dealers are playing ball, and train them accordingly. Whether the exhaust wasnt fitted for money gain, or lack of training on the manufacturers part, its still not good enough. When you splashed nearly 10k, you expect the product to work as advertised, its not like you've done it on the cheap!!! That is true to some extent. The kit is sold as a reliable way to tune the car to a tested power level. Although you may get the odd failure that is down to 'bad luck' as it were, when it has been proved by an independant engine specialist that the problem was caused by something that is attributed to missing components, then its a totally different matter altogether. The replacement parts issues isnt something that I can comment on, as Im guessing we may now see a resolution, now this has gone public, and its not a problem that can be conveniently ignored. I have not seen the report on the tune that APS made, so I cannot say, from what i remember hearing, I dont think the problem was compounded by the map. I will find out. I dont know anything about the GForce demo car, do you? for sure?? where did you get the information??? is it purely gossip???? Again the comments on the US boards are nothing more than speculation, I have an independent engine experts report to go on, and written evidence from APS stating that the car should not have been sold without the exhaust.

Yes it did, basically a valve head broke away from the stem, melting a piston, with the resulting debris destroying the crank = large hole in the side of the block.

Accepted by APS, and as the manufacturer and seller of the kit, the dealers have to go by their word. If APS dont market the kit without the exhaust, and clearly state a reason why, that must be followed. APS do not supply the single turbo kit to the UK/European market as they say its not suitable due to driving conditions/load cycle. As a customer you rely on the dealers to stick to guidelines set by the parent company. In Giles's case, the kit was sold as not fit for purpose, as it didnt include the exhaust system. The price list dating back to Dec 2004 states the kit as including the true dual exhaust, this wasnt supplied, and Giles was assured that his system would be fit for use. It clearly was not fit for use, and the resulting thermal load caused an exhaust valve to come apart, the rest we know.