ikarus

Are there any guides on here as to where to fit sound deadening, I got a couple of sheets of brown bread and just stuck it in my boot under where the wheel goes made a bit of a hash of it but it still made a difference.

 

I would like to have a go at doing the boot properly and then maybe the doors, ive seen guides on here for removing door cards etc and have searched but cant find a guide to fitting sound deadening, pics would be good

Not my work but very useful reference..

Doors:

I start with my CLD Tiles which are really just a beefed up version of something like Dynamat Xtreme. They are 6"X10" because I want them to be easy to handle and I don't want people to use too many of them. Since the effectiveness of a constrained layer damper falls off dramatically after 25% of the surface, weighted toward the center is treated, I wanted a damper that would take maximum advantage of that real estate. You can get close to the same result using a little more Dynamat Xtreme. Anyway, 25% coverage of the outer skin, treating the area above and below the side impact protection beams as distinct panels.

 

I then stuff Extruded Butyl Rope, the same adhesive used for the tiles in 3/8" cylindrical form, between the side impact protection beam and the outer skin. This way the doors's own structure can be used for additional damping and to support the center of the large outer skin. Similar products are used for sealing windshields and other tasks so you may find something suitable to use instead. Leave gaps for water to drain through and push some plastic sheeting strips into the exposed surface of the butyl to keep it clean.

 

25% coverage of the inner skins and we are done with vibration damping for the doors.

 

An important step, particularly if you have door mounted speakers is fabricating removable inner skin access hole covers. I've used fiberglass or I'll just cut aluminum flashing, two pieces for each cover and make a sandwich with Extruded Butyl in between. Heating the assembly in an oven will soften the butyl and allow you to flatten it out completely. The result is an extremely non-resonant cover. You can use anything that is rigid, waterproof, non-corrosive and can be formed to follow the contours of the hole's perimeter. I run a bead of butyl around the edge and use self tapping screws to lock it down.

 

Sealing the access holes helps with noise rejection. If there are door mounted speakers it helps reinforce the baffle - isolating the front and back waves from the speaker.

 

Now we need a barrier for the doors. Closed cell foam (CCF) is almost a necessity because of possible exposure to moisture. I use mass loaded vinyl (MLV) but lead or very dense rubber will work too.

 

Most modern vehicles have inner skin access holes that are too small to make attaching the barrier system to the outer skin. In some cases it will be the best option and will take a slightly different approach. I hang the MLV on the inner skin using self adhesive Velcro Patches. This makes the barrier easily removable for future maintenance and easier to deal with as you cut the small oles you will need for cables, shafts and whatever else needs to pass from the outside to the inside surface. You want these holes to be as small as possible and you want the MLV to be as large as it can be while still allowing the door card to fit back on. Gaps and holes are the enemy.

 

Once the MLV is fitted, I glue some CCF to the side of the MLV facing the door card. This is the reverse of the usual barrier/decoupler configuration, but it works very well in the doors. When the door card is replaced, the CCF compresses slightly eliminating rattles and buzzes in the door card and between the door card and the inner skin.

 

Doors done.

 

Everything else is much simpler. For the floor, I'll usually rip the stock vibration damper out if it is asphalt (bitumen). In a car that is more than a few years old it is usually crumbling anyway. In any case, asphalt is such a miserable vibration damper that I won't have it in my own car or any car I work on. I always curse the OEM as I pull it out.

 

Same drill with the vibration damper - 25% coverage of the open, unsupported areas. Stay away from the edges of panels, bolt down points, welds and sharp bends. Tapping is a good way to determine which areas are most resonant, but it is not a good way to determine when you have added enough vibration damper. It doesn't replicate any real world conditions and you will basically add vibration damper until it is thick enough to insulate the tap from the sheet metal. One layer, 25% coverage, done.

 

I use 1/4" CCF on the floors if it will fit and it usually does. In most cases you only need to lay it on the bottoms of the floor pans. It's great if you can run it at least partway up the center tunnel and the sills, but trim panel replacement usually makes this impossible. You will be able to run it up to the stock barrier on the firewall and it's a good idea to do so.

 

Follow with the barrier material. This should be run up and over the tunnel, up into the kick panel area, up the sills, as far up the firewall as you can reach and basically anywhere you can get it. Again, you will need to cut small holes for the seat bolts and seat belt anchors. Keep them small. Seal all seams. Gaps in a barrier work the same way an open door into an adjacent room does - sound comes through.

 

Don't use adhesive on the floor unless you absolutely have to. The carpet, trim and gravity will hold everything in place. Gluing the stuff down doesn't improve performance in any way and will make your life miserable if you ever have to get under the material.

 

You can follow the same procedure for the boot, cargo area, wheel arches or whatever you are dealing with. Enough vibration damper to stop resonance and a CCF/Barrier layering to block sound. On complex surfaces you will need to do some cutting and pleating to get things to fit unless you are using lead.

 

You don't need a barrier on the roof, but I like to apply vibration damper and cover it with a layer of CCF. Air turbulence and weather noise will be much reduced.

written by Rudeboy, Talkaudio

http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=306859

I might be able to find out some photos of my 350z door and boot install if anyone wants to see. I used Dynamat Extreme and Luxury Liner Pro. If there is interest i'll post them.

Luxury liner is a barrier. It has a heavy vinyl layer bonded to a foam layer which acts as a decoupler. The heavy layer blocks low frequencies such as road noise, truck engines etc. The foam layer acts like a diffuser, scattering higher frequency sound waves. The two layers together do a good job of blocking out a lot of outside noise. I looked into all this before I did mine, that's how I remember it anyway

I have dynamat on big flat panels, this is to absorb rattles - not to block sound. I also have luxury liner pro lining my doors and boot etc. This is to block sound from outside. It does weigh a bit but it takes mass to block low frequency sound waves from outside. I read a comment about studios having egg box foam, this is to stop reflections, nothing to do with blocking sound. This would be done with a lead liner in the wall AFAIK.

I still haven't seen this car round stafford yet, I've seen the MR2 in the background a few times tho!

Sold that a few weeks back, the MR2 resides somewhere in Walsall now so you may still see it. The Zed isn't really a daily driver though, doesn't come out too often

Sorry all, and i hate it when people do this but i've got to call this one off. Unfortunately my employers have dropped redundancies on my depertment yesterday, which may mean me. As a result i'm going to need to utilise my time this weekend on other matters. I had the whole weekend planned too with an overnight in a hotel in Lincoln city centre with the +1.

Again, sorry all

Looks good Ian

Still haven't got mine on yet, i want to remove the reflectors first so bumper off job. Did you bolt them?

Some great pics there! I will try and sort out ours when i get a minute some time spare. We had a great day out and it was great to meet a lot of new people

Well done Mitch for the trophy! ..and thanks to the organisers - another trophy for the stand to their credit

Looking forward to many more meets guys (and girls)

Should be plenty of space - be great to have you along. We are aiming to meet around 8.30 am to set up etc, but get there when you can

Thanks, will aim for 8.30

..right then, time to get some wax on!!

As the Midlands drive is now off I'd love to drop in on this one if there's space on the stand?

Just passed my MOT

Who's going to the show then if the drive is off?

I'm going to be changing my seats this weekend

I had a search and can't find much on the cables attached to the seats. I know there are different versions of seats with varying levels of gadgets built into them. I have an 03 JDM and as far as i can tell it doesn't have airbags or any electric adjustments etc. However, there is an electrical harness from the car. Anyone got any idea's what this is for and what to do with it when i change the seats? I read something about an airbag sensor, which can be sorted with a resistor circuit?

If there aren't any known guides about i'll write it up for others to benefit from

Thanks in advance..

1. Nurrish - Confirmed

2. Wasso - Confirmed

3. Rich5259

4. stichy

5. Fakeindian

6. ikarus (tentative)

7. 350ash (tentative)

8. T8 JPE

9. IanS16

10. GT4 Zed

11. Bladesgrant - Confirmed

12. Tarmac (tentative)

Attendance pending MOT on Saturday, should pass though

Justed added us

1 / Attak z +1

2 / Chesterfield

3 / Lincolnbaggie

4 / Mitch +1

5 / Frenzy +1

6 / Madmarky

7 / Bladesgrant

8 / Ikarus +1

9 /

10/

11/

12/

13/

14/

15/

16/

17/

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This sounds very familiar, very similar thing happened to me there, ended up parting with some cash and running as quick as possible, would never go back

Please tell...

Careful now...

It's very popular with campers. Many a memorable ride had here, with and without the wife

Nice views there, bet it was a bu@@er to peddle up though

A few from Cannock chase in Staffordshire, often mrs. and I ride out to here over the weekend as it's not to far from us..

Would love to see some pics.....

i like your sense of humour

That's a very clean example, shame there's not more pics of it. Nostalgia overdose.

During a trip to Aulton Park earlier this year, i saw one of these..

It has been in the back of my mind ever since.

Yet another story where someone kept a car for a ridiculous amount of time. Why are time-scales not agreed beforehand??

If my car was being worked on I wouldn't accept 1 month let alone 18!!!

 

Feel sorry for the guy though!!

It appears this is common practice with big car projects for some companies. I know of one car (Celica GT4) that has been in a garage for 3 years now, and at least one other (Pulsar) that has been in a garage for longer than that. They are different companies too.

Not defending it though, I think it's totally unacceptable too. But treating a customer like this is totally off regardless of time-scale, he had every right to get his parts back - and all of them too. Actually, way before it got to this stage i would expect Thor to apologise for the delay, reduce the end labour bill as way of an apology and pull their finger out and get the job done for him.

Well said D4XNY, i was similarly enraged - hence starting the thread. Our forums are an ideal place to share our experiences and hopefully steer people away from bad traders.

My bad Rich, read it properly this time around. I must say i'm suprised to read that about Rogue, my MR2 has been there a few times - not recently granted. They used to be very good - and their mapper, come to think of it my MR2 was mapped there twice with great results.

I think all this just adds to the value of a moderated forum with approved traders

Good enough for me Chris.

I think it's no surprise, the trader was..

THOR

This is a post from the 300zx thread, there is more but this gets the point across:

So couple of weeks we went down to pick my car and parts up.

 

Took about 3 hours to get there then a further about 3 hours to load the van up of parts. We totally filled a big Transit van full of my parts.

 

All was good up until this point.

 

Through out the duration they kept making comments saying i was a fool and left the car for them to finish trying to make me feel bad. They had it for over a year and a half and the engine was out the car and still totally in bits. Sod all had been done.

 

Anyway...

 

So the car was loaded on to a trailer, most the parts were in the van, the garage said here are your parts and watched as we loaded which is fair enough. Keeping in mind they had my car for a long time and in that period i had a few bits n bobs sent to them in that time. Luckily for me a was prepared with a list of parts they had which i had really scratched my head to put together as i had so many parts. They gave me the essential parts then i had to ask for the other about quarter of the parts one by a time, "where is this" " where is that" it was if they were trying to catch me out and keep anything they could.

 

They wouldnt give me back my heads which i supplied. They had been machined and ported etc. They also didnt give me my valve guides back or the stem seals. They also promised i could have the acl race bearings they supplied but on the day decided i couldnt so didnt get them either, another lie guys.

 

That was bad enough until things took a turn for the worse.

 

They wanted me to sign something saying i had collected all parts bla bla bla and other rubbish in there also. This was a total lie as we didnt collect all parts, as they refused to some back so as anyone would we refused to sign it. They didn't like this and that is when things got nasty.

 

I think the words were "you know what you need to do guys" Our van then got blocked in, all the mechanics come outside and stood around crossed arms and intimidated us. Voices raised etc. etc. Threats were made etc. etc.

 

They realised we were not going to budge, so they re-worded this letter and was just as bad. Once again we refused to sign.

 

This went on for hours, and throughout most this time we were not allowed in the workshop standing out side freezing our ass off!!! Also with mechanics standing around intimidating us.

 

Then they said that we had unload our van again or they would do it for us assuming force would of been used as they had shown their dark side.

 

I said ok then, think we need to call the police. They were like are you sure?? i said well yeah look what is going on!!!

 

He then stomped off for about a hour and hide and sulked!!

 

While he was gone i told the mechanics a few home truths, they had no idea of all the facts that everything was supplied by me!! Payment was never a issue and that this has gone on for over a year and a half.

 

Couple of the guys were shocked and turned and was on our side and said the management this isnt on and helped us work on a solution, in the end they helped to draft up a document which we were happy with, it stated we collected most of parts and some we were not getting back as it was truthful. Management said well it be on your head to the mechanics who sided with us as the owner would not be happy.

 

In other words they wanted to pretend it never happened, pretend they never even had my car.

 

I was also told i had to lie and not tell anyone my car had ever been there and if i did they hinted towards that there would be consequences.

 

They had two sets of my heads, the ones i supplied on another used engine and the old ones off the old engine. They said i could use the old old ones as they were not giving back my other ones. When i got home i took a look over my heads and they look like to me that they have been purposely damaged, i have pics and will prove this. It looks like someone has took a hammer and chisel to every one of the spark holes well think its the spark holes. and it is every one on both heads, this could never happen surely unless done on purpose, they are all cracked and smashed.

 

What else, there is lots more, briefly someone has been offered for sale by them some of my parts. They were trying to sell my parts!!! and one of those parts is one they would not return!!

 

Got my car home took one look at it and thought no way can i see this through now. They left it in a complete mess!!! bits every where!! boxes upon boxes of parts, complete nght mare for anyone to take on.

 

That is why most my parts are now for sale, I do love the Zed but i have lost that spark. they have ruined it for me.

 

They also tried turning it on me and started blaming the lack of work down to payment. Funny that the original bill was about £6,000 and crept up to nearly £14,000 where i said no way!! cant pay that and they said ok £10,000 for full sponsor of the car which i didnt want as it would look rubbish covered in their stickers and it would no longer be a sleeper which i want. Also going back to payment, i gave them a deposit they asked for, they done sod all work for months then asked for more money so i gave them more than they asked as a incentive to work on my car which they still done nothing to. Does this sound like a non payer? all this time i had the money sitting in my account waiting to pay them. They pretty much said in so many words if i did tell anyone about what happened that would be their angle which believe me is a complete lie!!! I am a very honest and genuine guy who they totally took advantage of and messed about big time!!!

 

Really is such a shame as my car would of been mega cool.

 

I will start another thread with pics of the heads for you to come to your own conclusion, i would also like to post up some of their invoices and how much they wanted to charge for sill jobs. 2 hours to bleed the breaks??? ok then...

 

Also another thread for my next steps. engine swap or... get another car. Either option involves selling most the parts which are in the for sale thread, most are brand spanking new. Get another car route will mean selling the entire lot.

 

One Sad Zed Owner

I for one will not be using them.

Trust you Sarnie.

Rich, your link is to a thread about Rogue, the mr2 specialists. Not sure on the connection?

If a moderator says it's OK to name them then I will - or link to the 300zx thread - but I enjoy being on this forum and don't want to break the rules. I think the point is that in this case the information is unsubstantiated and so it could be seen as unfair to name the trader. It's a bit of a grey area to say the least. I can see it from both directions.

TBH though this thread can just be taken as a warning to either use an approved trader on here OR do some research before putting any money down elsewhere. I'm sure if you pm'd any of the members here that have experienced these people and asked for their advice on where to take your car they would steer you in the right direction, ie toward a good trader / tuner.

Ian, i have a box full of canards in front of me . Drop me a pm bud

P.S. Many thanks Adam