Maggz

39 minutes ago, Ponsonby said:

I am still waiting for someone to convince me. Am open minded but have not heard a good arguement for it yet - all I hear is that we will be better off. How exactly?

I work in the science sector. This is one of the UK's greatest assets. Over the last few years quite a few science parks have been established around the UK bringing the greatest of minds together. How were these funded - partly by the EU. Loads of the research work done in the UK is EU funded. Lots of people mention what gets paid out to the EU but don't realise how much comes back.

Loads of regeneration in Wales was EU funded and led by EU initiatives - but Wales voted out, wtf!

The problem you have, is that you expect people will actually think about how things work and try and research and understand how leaving or staying will impact their career, personal life and the economy as a whole. So until you start consuming Facebook and Twitter sound bites as your only news, and focus on what Sputnik and RT says, you're really not objective and are just regurgitating all the brainwashing propaganda by the pro EU radical left, which wants to open the borders and destroy our gorgeous country with immigrants from EU who only come here to steal our money, jobs, women and our babies. Oh and destroying the fisheries and NHS...that's also high on the agenda of the foreign invaders.

Just now, docwra said:

This. However, its also pretty stupid that we would let her back in as long as she pretends to be sorry .........

It's called being brainwashed. Balkan wars were full of people who believed with all their heart they're fighting for the right cause, what ever that was. 

There were even more people who did not fight, but did not want to leave their houses, livelihood, heritage, and stayed put during the war.  Those people all became completely desensitised due to all the horrific stuff they saw and lived through. It doesn't matter if you're a soldier or a cook, PTSD is the same, and has to be treated. Any normal person watching an interview with such a person would be horrified, as we all were with this young lady. But it's a condition, and when combined with brainwashing it comes out as it did unfortunately.

This takes years to treat and we have several countries in Europe which were affected in recent times with the same thing.

21 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

We do lock people up for "life" if the bill fits the crime and we have deported people  

 

Sorry, the child thing just doesnt wash, she knew what she was doing, she wasnt enough of a child to fund and find her way there with her mates, get married, chuck out a few kids, knowing all the time the risk to her life and her future, most of us know right and wrong even as a child and if she really genuinely didnt know what she was doing was wrong then she doesnt deserve any better than the life she choose. 

 

As per first post, lets make it clear, make it law, then there can be no confusion for the future. 

 

 

It's clear that you've not had a conversation with a 15 year old yet. 

It's even clearer that you've never met or talked to a person who lived or has survived a war.

So you're just thinking of how you would act in your current state and are projecting this to everyone as the only way people function. What's the word I'm looking for... oh yeah, ignorant

8 minutes ago, nissanman312 said:

Dose it matter where they are from if they have those ideologies they have them simple and she's not exactly going on like what she did was wrong...she just wants to come back because it's not what she thought it was 

My point was that not letting her back, does not reduce the terrorist risk in the UK as most terror attacks in the last few years were carried out by homegrown Brits. 

Leaving her there, does in fact increase the terror risk as her son will be brought up in a very non democratic and extremist environment. 

3 hours ago, nissanman312 said:

I do get your point. 

However feel it may change when she drives over one of your family members.

Or in time helps some other vunrable kid do the same 

 

She could of course do all of this from behind a computer screen elsewhere but I'd rather she wasn't allowed back to do it here 

Syrians don't don't drive over Brits. Brits which are radicalised in Britain drive over Brits. 

So i think we should focus on preventing radicalisation and not border control or passports being revoked

Interesting discussion. It's a shame more people don't talk about how she could have been brainwashed so much that she decided to leave her life behind and move to a war zone. Who brainwashed her, where, using what methods, and since she has left, how many others have suffered the same?

At 15 no one is capable of making educated and well informed choices. We were all driven by hormones and emotions which I bet someone took advantage off. 

Bringing her back and finding out absolutely everything about her life and journey is the only way any lessons get learned. Having her kid grow up here offers a bigger chance he'll be normal than in Syria or anywhere like that.

The govt should be making sure this doesn't happen again in the future, and not go for cheap political points of revoking her passport, alienating her and probably a few thousand other UK based Muslims.  And they can't prevent it if they don't really know how and why that happened. Otherwise your neighborhood, friend, schoolmate could be next on the brainwashing list. Does anyone really want that?

On 04/02/2019 at 14:50, Ekona said:

This is why the public shouldn’t be trusted with referendums

 

I strongly suspect we’ll see a last minute extension to A50 a week before the deadline. Just a gut feeling. 

It's not necessary to remove referendums, but as they're not legally binding and are advisory only, the elected officials need to have the balls to go against what was voted, if they think it's against the country interest. 

But parties are more concerned with losing votes than anything else so they take referendum results like gospel which is retarded.

I mean racial segregation and slavery in the US would never get abolished if you did what the people wanted. Does that mean those 2 changes we're bad? 

Same with women's voting rights, was that a bad thing? 

I hope there will be an extension to A50 tho, as there's too much legislation missing and logistic and operational issues are so big currently that the impacts on the economy and jobs will be massive, and they don't need to be

35 minutes ago, StevoD said:

but thats going to go both ways.

Did you just assume people actually read full articles and watch all videos? 

But yeah, based on reciprocity, mainly due to the fact that there's over 1 million UK citizens living in the EU, as well as EU ones in the UK. It just makes sense and there's no need for visas for short stays (up to 90 days)

7 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

Re Dyson, no job losses and continued investment into the UK is the actual news 

While trading with EU from Singapore through their free trade agreement, and being in an advantageous position as non UK companies will have tarrifs and will be less competitive. 

He was willing to throw the country under the bus for his financial gain, while he planned the move to Singapore to still have a free trade agreement he can use to trade in the EU. 

Completely normal, patriotic, and in the country's interest,....right? 

11 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

So if we do leave with no deal and if we look to be fairing ok, do you think others would follow?

Also please explain how the UK can do fairly well after it leaves? Only country in the world that will trade exclusive by WTO tarrifs until first trade deals get made.

Americans are conditioning their trade deal with NHS privatisation, food and health standards being lowered, and car safety standards being lowered. And that's only for starting any negotiations. 

Australia had conditions about food standards lowering. 

What do you think Chinese will do? Request all spoils of war returned, visa free travel or severally laxed visas are implemented. 

Who else? India? Russia? Who else do we want to make conssessions with? 

I'm genuinely interested in where these great opportunities lie. 

To me it looks like we've cut off one of our feet and are trying to get ready to run a marathon. We're going to be in a severely weakened negotiating position with all the countries we want to make trade deals with, as we won't have any in place and only WTO rules to use. That's not a good starting place...

11 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

Absolutely a business would negotiate the best deal they can but purely theoretical question on that, you dont believe if a deal offered between business's was declined (which it has in this case) "they" would concede further for their own interests/business?  I suggest thats cutting off your nose to spite your face and not business in any shape or form. 

 

Bearing in mind it doesnt seem the bulk of it is not  widely accepted, its not like "we" are asking for completely different terms or benefits, 1 issue (although complicated) that seems to need further resolution which might just get it done and agreed in law. You would personal think both "business's" would be all over that 

 

Andy above, Maggz and others have said it, the EU are setting president to try to stamp out the rot and keep their dream alive, its way beyond just business agreements, we are the scapegoats and if we leave without a deal and if we look to be surviving and getting on forging new deals under wto, others will follow sometime down the line.

 

I can see this rolling and rolling, what if Italy, Poland or anyone else wants out or Scotland want out of the UK, we are forever more going to be discussing borders.

 

 

How are we scapegoats? What are you talking about?

The UK decided to leave the EU because it thinks it's better off without it. But instead of leaving it demands all EU benefits without any payments or conssessions. 

The EU has been clear from before the vote happened. Accept all 3 pillars or don't have any. But our cretin politicians keep lying to us and ourselves that they can get a good deal which includes 1.5 pillars. 

Free movement of goods, but not people. No tarrifs on financial services and no ECJ rule. 

No border between Ireland and N Ireland, and no border in the UK. So if there's no borders how can you not be part of the EU? 

So everything we've been warned about has happened, how is that being a scapegoat?

Italy cannot leave. They'll go bust in a year. They have a 375 billion EUR deficit and are begging the ECB for a bailout. How the hell do you see them leaving? Do you think them returning the Lira will help them?

And Poland? Here's what Poland has become because of the EU:

4 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

Doesnt look like the EU is doing Germany & France much good as according to many sources they are both on the brink of recession.

What sources are that? Facebook, YouTube, and Sputnik news?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/375203/gross-domestic-product-gdp-growth-rate-in-germany/

17 minutes ago, coldel said:

This will come up a fair bit, the UK wants to simply 'copy paste' its schedules from the EU to itself within the WTO. The issue is going to be that we will be effectively demanding what the EU demanded, but we are not the EU and a much smaller entity with reduced economic leverage. If we do end up going down a real no deal route the other WTO countries will definitely pay more attention to our submission (which Reuters cite is just a training exercise if you like).

It should be simple but it won't be. The EU is a large market and can dictate a lot of things, I assume their schedules are therefore a lot better for the EU compared to schedules of non EU countries. 

UK copy pasting probably pi**ed off a few people as they want better conditions for themselves when trading with the UK, so changes and challenges from more countries is likely.

20 hours ago, coldel said:

I could easily do that, but some people could get funny about it. One is a guy who lives in Teeside who is the dad of my wifes good mate, I don't want to get into a back and forth about it on social media. I think best thing is just unfriend and ignore or whatever the button is.

I think you can go to his profile and unfollow him, meaning you're still friends, you just won't see his posts. 

Doesn't prevent him from going off in comments on your post tho

On 16/01/2019 at 08:54, coldel said:

Am I the only one considering blocking or unfriending people on social media? I use FB mainly for keeping tabs on car stuff, meets etc. but have to put up with certain people on there who are lovely people constantly just sharing Memes with all sorts of crap on them. Things like welcoming a no deal brexit when they have not even spent one minute reading the WTO rules. If we move to the WTO rules (we are already part of the WTO through the EU) it doesn't just happen, we have to agree our schedules of operations which all the WTO members have to agree to - so are we 'taking back control' well to a degree, but we still have to agree how we operate with an economic bloc called the WTO instead of the EU moving forwards. As much as some people with a very simple view of the world wont like it, trade is a global 'thing' which no amount of flag waving or chest beating will get them away from. 

Not only that but Taiwan challenged our proposed schedules so it seems there's another negotiation which will have to take place, this time for WTO tarrif rules

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1PA2TP

45 minutes ago, coldel said:

To be honest though, we must look like a bunch of utter numpties to the EU. They negotiate a withdrawal agreement with the government, not with Theresa May, with the British government. In the meantime any MP who wants their name in lights is ranting and jostling for position, we must have about a dozen different groups in parliament all whinging and ranting about their point of view and getting us nowhere. All the while the EU sits there watching our currency tank and we make no progress - how on earth anyone here thinks we can negotiate all these trade deals with the rest of world when we cannot even get past hurdle one of the exit with any sort of consensus in parliament needs their head examining. 

Can confirm. 

Loads of EU countries have had enough, they're done spending time on this, they got their own countries to run. Apart from Merkel desperate to keep the EUs geopolitical strength the rest seem to have stopped caring or are actually rooting for a hard Brexit, so that any other Eurosceptic countries realise what leaving feels like. 

I can't see this deal changing at all. So it's probably hard Brexit or no Brexit. Maybe an election in between, but those two options don't really change

2 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

It was well documented post referendum and of course it sits on your side of the fence so understand why you mention it, but, you would honestly put your faith in a demographic that literally couldnt be arsed to get their ass down the polling station in the 15hrs or so it was open and exercise their right to vote and have their say? At the very point they didnt exercise that right, they vetoed that vote and any voice they had.

 

 

I was stating facts about why the vote shifted on the day. Young believed the polls and thought their 1 vote didn't matter, old people went and voted. End off.

Your point about me putting faith into young voters makes absolutely no sense. Where have I mentioned anything about where my faith was put? To what is this even related? Feels like one of us has ADHD as we're not even remotely talking about the same things...

13 hours ago, Bullet said:

/gobsmacked, I've been calling you lot remainers when it should have been deniers.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/567922/distribution-of-eu-referendum-votes-by-age-and-gender-uk/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2017-39965925

How is this not common knowledge by now? Or do you purposely not read anything, ever...

9 minutes ago, Bullet said:

"After UK goes to the gutter for a decade"....You'd better get out while you can then mate

 

Not rocket science mate

I think the UK will need me and my taxes if I'm totally honest, especially the way things are going. So I'll let you thank me for staying...

2 hours ago, Bullet said:

You'd better get out while you can then mate

Did you tag the wrong comment? This isn't making any sense

2 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

And why do you think Cameron offered the referendum, anything to with the growing popularity of Ukip possibly, 52% said they want independence remember. I could put up some info re other member states feelings towards the EU but no doubt they wont suit you so a pointless discussion! 

 

Talking out my ass, no dude, you just dont like being pulled up on your ridiculous sweeping statements 

Just post everything you have. Saying you know @*!# but don't want to give any resources sounds like a kindergarten argument.

Also you don't seem to know why Cameron called the referendum which is a bit sad really. He did it to get the Tori brexiters off his back as he was sure it won't pass. They've been crying about Europe for years in the party, so he wanted to shut them up apparently. There was no majority at that point, not even close lol. Leave campaign in combination with kids not voting won it. 

29 minutes ago, Adrian@TORQEN said:

What's the source for these figures?

 

 

 

 

 

Stats based on https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0276062EN/bmw-group-sells-more-than-2-million-vehicles-in-2017-so-far?language=en

Oh stop it with all the numbers, and logic. This is not what this thread is about 

52 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

Why wouldnt they want to trade with us? We are/were the 2nd largest economy in the EU, 5th in the World, do people honestly think we wont survive without suckling at the eu teat and if they have agreed free trade deal with the eu, no reason why we cant follow suit.

 

You do realise which country you have set up a very successful business dont you? 

Largest economy isn't everything. Largest market by population is just as important if not more. American companies selling goods don't necessarily care how much turnover the UK has, but how many people will buy their products.

So the UK is not really important with only 60M people compared to EU, US, China, etc. These are not my words btw ... Obama's government said that the US needs trade deals with biggest markets and the UK will have to wait it's turn due to its size.

1 hour ago, Jetpilot said:

I agree about context, so that isnt the whole continent scratching their heads trying to understand the leave vote as you said earlier, its funny how so many times in this country we are chastised for not listening, condemning or ignoring minorities but when it comes to a minority people dont agree with, it is dulled down and insignificant, listen to the minority banging on in this thread, you cant have it both ways!

 

It is early days with uprisings against the eu establishment and the uk has been the first to pull the pin, i would bet my left nut once we are finally done (whichever way that may be except revoking article 50) you will see a momentum from those minorities who want their voice heard about their contempt for the Eu.

Oh boy.... You've mentioned 3 or 4 countries out of over 20. So yes majority of EU countries are scratching their heads. 

1 out of those you mentioned is  not even a full country but a single party not even close to any majority. It's like saying UKIP represents the UKs opinion. LePen basically is the French UKIP, just a lot more extreme.

After the Brexit vote individual European country initiatives for exiting reduced by half. After UK goes to the gutter for a decade, the rest of the initiatives will cease to exist as well probably.

You mentioned it's early days with uprisings against the EU establishment, this part clearly shows you are paying zero interest in any EU country development as this is totally opposite of any reports in the last 2 years. 

You're talking out of your ass mate

8 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

Simply untrue, France with LePen was angling towards their own referendum and she had quite a following and plenty of mutterings coming from Italy, Poland and others about having their own referendum.

Context is needed here. 

LePen is a leader of a hard right, racist party, which she is trying desperately to show as a moderate one. Google about her dad, who started it. She's been funded by Russia for years, not even a secret. Any party which wants to break up the union gets money from Ruskies.

Italy and their 5 star movement is even worse, but I really don't want to suffocate everyone with my walls of text, it would need to be a totally separate thread, although I did mention Italy in a lengthy post. Those two should in my honest opinion not be used as any indication of European countries, as they represent a very small minority of pi**ed off right wing, anti immigration, EU fund guzzling communities/parties.

Poland tho, is a mistery to me as they're split heavily internally between people wanting their president to become an autocrat and those that want him hanged. Same in Hungary with Orban.