Bullet

1 hour ago, Adrian@TORQEN said:

What's the source for these figures?

55 minutes ago, Jay84 said:

Pretty sure comparing China is pointless, they manufacture there own rip off EU cars.https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/features/chinese-copycat-cars-can-you-spot-the-western-inspiration-behind-these-designs-a7015966.html?amp=&usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

Hong Kong however would be different...

Exactly what i said, there needs to be a demand

Does quite work like that though does it ?

Bmw sells 11% of its cars to us meager 60 million in the Uk but only sells 7% to the 1.4 billion in china. There also needs to be demand and wealth for sales.

Bmw sells 0 cars to the 1.4 billion in Africa.... because they can't afford them.

The UK has massive buying power. 

9 minutes ago, Maggz said:

After the Brexit vote individual European country initiatives for exiting reduced by half. After UK goes to the gutter for a decade, the rest of the initiatives will cease to exist as well probably.

You'd better get out while you can then mate

41 minutes ago, coldel said:

I see JRM again ruling himself out for running for it, the chief protagonist voicing constant opposition to the governments Brexit course, a man who constantly says it can be done another way, who says we hold all the cards, BUT when it comes to stepping into a position where he has to actually do it, he bottles it

Exactly, Farage is the same too. 

9 minutes ago, SuperStu said:

Isn't that what we do every time there's a general election, or is that undemocratic too?

 

Not one post in this whole thread is advocating how good this deal actually is, in any quantifiable way! Doesn't that say something?

 

And let's face it, if your argument against a vote is not base on the deal being so good, but on an incorrect technicality that "it's just not democracy", it illustrates beautifully how pitifully weak the deal is. 

 

And still no one knows why voting once is democracy, but more than once isn't.

You will only ever hear what you want to hear. A continuing theme in this thread is remainers demanding other people give them information, I would suggest that is why you're a remainer in first place. Trying to talk to you people is like trying to convince someone they have Stockholm syndrome.

Case in point is that you would imagine that remainers would be pro Eu but when i put up a video of the European parliament voicing concerns about The UN trying to make talking about immigration a hate speech......I'm the racist one ????? you people cannot see though your brainwashing and main stream media education.

I'm done here.

42 minutes ago, SuperStu said:

Not one line of that explains why voting twice is undemocracy.

The whole idea of a vote is to find out what the masses want and to get them to vote again on the same subject comes across very much like "wrong answer vote again" which is something a dictatorship would do and not a democracy.

Are you seriously saying we should vote indefinitely ? who decides what the 'right' answers is in your system ? 

I'm looking for a Stock intake pipe and afm housing

Anyone got them ?

"i want a brexiteer to give me the argument that will change my mind on exiting the EU" Just in case you missed it , We already voted to leave and we one.

Trying to convince you now would be like teaching you to shut gates after your horse has already bolted.

I don't know why the left keep going on and on, The time to argue the point was before the referendum not after. The vote was won by leave and if this was reversed or rerun it would make a mockery of our democracy. Would any vote every stand ever again ?? 

Don't let Brexit distract you from another potentially huge UN policy about to be signed on the 10th-11th of december  'The global compact on migration'.

Feel free to make of that what you will, add/remove words etc whatever fits the agenda

It never said 350 million for the nhs and what really gets me is that the remainers were moaning "where's the 350 million ?" a week after we voted to leave, It wasn't if we vote to leave it was when we leave and we haven't done that yet.

I really don't understand your logic Maggz, "Not sure anyone can afford an exit. Italy is broke, worse than Greece was." Because of the EU, more specifically the euro.  all of your arguments about what the UK would have to do after hard brexit are all backwards.

It all comes down to reinstating infrastructure that was taken down by the Eu, The EU destroyed our car industry, our fishing industry, our steel and aluminium industry, These were the backbone of the country.

What they did essentially was remove our way of support ourselves so that we had to depend on them.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/the-eu-has-destroyed-some-of-our-most-prosperous-industries---an/

http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/06/16/how-joining-the-eu-led-to-a-big-decline-in-uk-industry/

2 hours ago, Maggz said:

Haha thanks. Probably the kindest thing I've been told on the web 

 

Uh, I will try to keep it short.

I'm a e-commerce manager for a large UK car parts company

But that doesn't have anything to do with my interest in politics, history and economics. It's more the fact I was born in Yugoslavia a long time ago, to a Serbian dad, and Bosnian mom, and had my closest family members on both sides of the Yugoslav war, which was started due to populist politicians talking about "us" and "them" although we were all the same people, and due to foreign countries helping us be "free". 

So I know too well what patriotism and nationalism does to people unfortunately, and more importantly what propaganda is, as we kept listening to both sides interpreting the same events quite differently.

So I'm a strong believer in the European project, and believe it's the only thing that can save us from any new European conflicts, and as mentioned guarantee continuous development.

I also love reading and researching on things I know nothing about  

 

Vested interest...with your background asking you about the EU is like asking the ceo of cadburys "who makes the best chocolate" 

Also i was under the impression the the Yugoslav war kicked of when the IMF agreed to loan Yugoslavia money, but required a series of reforms which  worsened unemployment, decentralised the Communist party and helped fuel nationalism" Mmmm, sounds familiar... Yep the IMF along with the EU that have crushed Italy, Greece, Spain etc. There is a continuing theme here.

4 minutes ago, Maggz said:

You're not getting the whole EU project. It's going towards the USA (different structures bit same logic), EU will eventually become one entity. And any country that wants to have their own anything, will probably have to leave as the UK did. 

So the EU army is one of the many things required. 

Does that not scare you ?

4 minutes ago, Maggz said:

 

Also the USA wasn't keen on helping anyone in WWII. They conveniently stayed out of it as long as they could, while the Reich took over the whole Europe, part of Africa and was trying to occupy Russia. And that was during good relations. Imagine having Trump in power and not Roosevelt.

I completely agree but you saying its better to join germany and let them quietly take over than stay on our own and have a war with them ?

5 minutes ago, Maggz said:

Why stopping at the WWII when insinuating specific counties are not to be trusted?  

Here's a list of countries we should cut ties with immediately as we've been involved in conflicts there, and start preparing our defence against them. Who cares about the situation we live in today!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_British_Army_1900–1999

 

I really thought I was out of this thread...

None of those were world wars where one country was trying to take over the whole of Europe, Have you ever look at the Fourth Reich ? Germany had plans for after the second world war to set up a European union, Up to this point scholars have denied this is happening because there is no military union..........This is the military union...The EU army

42 minutes ago, coldel said:

If it was an EU army run by UK generals would the opinion be different, I imagine it would. The EU army debate is no different to the freedom of movement one, to the single market rules one etc. Because we aren't running the show its deemed unsuitable. No comments about Russian threats etc. will change that view.

Not at all, I don't think there should be an EU army full stop. I think that every country should have their own army to protect their own country, culture and economy.

They want to set up a Eu army in case of threats/war with Russia, china. We have never had a war with either Russia or China but we have had 2 world wars with Germany.

Ask yourself this, If ww2 was to happen all over again but first they were able to set up a European army and therefore have troops stationed in all European countries........Would it have ended differently ? 

1 hour ago, docwra said:

You just cited the Daily Mail and a Twitter account that admits it "Highlighting the wilful surrender of UK political control over defence which the May government perpetrated 2017 " to support a point, you cant really speak 

I dont get whats being argued here - Macron and Merkel are saying they cant rely on the US anymore (they cant), while the British Defence Minister has to say its rubbish or he risks undermining NATO. when in actual fact if the US are going to pull out of NATO its the obvious choice.
hen you consider our "special relationship" with the US has lead us into two wars we didnt need to fight and has increased the threat of terrorism substantially I think it would make a lot more sense to team up with our closest neighbours rather than a loony who actual loves Putin and was threatening to nuke North Korea not that long ago .....

I really don't understand your logic, So "special relationship" with the US has lead us into two wars we didnt need to fight = Bad

Military union with Germany that we've had two wars with = Good 

??

18 hours ago, SuperStu said:

Don’t tell me you’ve fallen for the “they’re all lamestream media for libtards and snowflakes” if an outlet doesn’t push an alt-right agenda    

 

Heard about them chemtrails they use to spread communism and stop flat earth truthing??? 

 

 

 

So you're saying that the BBC is a reliable source for truth ? ...Tell me, How many years did they cover for Jimmy saville ??? 

While you waffling about chemtrails trying to discredit other people, You do realise they can now treat Stockholm syndrome  ...yeah ?

Oh sorry forgot to add  cos it's all a big joke

3 hours ago, Maggz said:

Nice try.

 

RT, Ruptly, Global news, random voiceovers,... And you think I'm dismissing it because it's not in line with my position?

No, I'm dismissing it as it's managed by a guy (Putin for anyone that needs help) who's main goal is to divide and conquer Europe. I think that's quite a low bar when it comes to expectations. Don't feed me BS from a regime that wants to cause havoc in Europe and is using its state television to support their agenda and feed propaganda. 

 

There's plenty pro-brexit articles from reputable news outlets. And before you ask me what those are, I googled it, again to remove opinions, and I present you with one example (there are many more if you care to Google for 30 seconds yourself):

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/berlinschoolofcreativeleadership/2017/02/01/10-journalism-brands-where-you-will-find-real-facts-rather-than-alternative-facts/

Lol i'm trying not to wet myself....Not only are all but one american papers but the only one that isn't is the BBC ......Lmao

Loved the "Contributor" The Berlin School Of Creative Leadership part

3 hours ago, Maggz said:

I'm not searching pro-brexit articles which would contest my own points, don't be silly. What I did do, is try and prove a point on the differences between reputable and not reputable news sources, as this thread had several appalling ones - in my opinion 

Well thank god there are more informed people than you on the case

https://twitter.com/VeteransBritain/status/1064818661121249281

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6407625/Defence-Secretary-declares-war-EU-leaders-calls-European-army-rival-Nato.html

I merely want people to consider what we are not being told

or this

or this

12 minutes ago, Maggz said:

As I said, if we start judging parliament's based on a single person and their statements, there's not a single country in this world that should have an army, UK included. 

What I'm saying is, you've taken the Merkel and Macron bit out of context, and have posted a short clip of 1 guy out of 751 seats in the EU parliament. 

That's like indicating the UK is what George Galloway says. I hope you see how that's problematic, especially when you try and make a point in regards to the EU army. 

Sorry for me that's misleading to say the least, if not intentionally twisted and inflammatory. 

How on earth can this be taken out of context:

Just now, The G Man said:

Earlier in the convo from someone else, I’ve read all four pages and Maggz is very good and lucid around his arguments

Oh he might be but he was quoting me,

5 minutes ago, Maggz said:

Alex Jones like videos

Now you keep saying that but are you saying that because you don't like the commentary afterwards you are completely blocking out  what Verhofstad said ??

"What's even worse is taking Donald Trump tweets as facts and news". Who did that ? i didn't even mention Trump.

38 minutes ago, Maggz said:

Hahahaha "these people" is suddenly one guy - Verhofstadt. You do know there's an European parliament right? And that this one guy can't do anything.

That's like saying the world should be afraid the UK has an army because Bobo Johnson doesn't like how Muslim women dress and look. 

 

You need to chill down buddy, seriously 

Just in case you missed it "also merkel and macron have both said in the last week that they need an EU Army to defend against Russia, China and the USA.....???? wtf ?? "

Guy verhofstad 'Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe '

Angela merkel 'The leader of germany

Emmanuel macron 'The leader of france' (who we share a military unions with)

'These people', 

Your ignorance is staggering

also merkel and macron have both said in the last week that they need an EU Army to defend against Russia, China and the USA.....???? wtf ??