SmoggyPauly

People... do your research. When presented with an article, question it. Does it quote it's sources? If not, that's highly questionable! If it does, go check out those sources.

 

Point I'm making is, regardless of your political persuasion, stop believing the bull!

Probably the most impressive & useful post to date...

I think somewhere you are reading it wrong, UK exports to Germany and France alone are near our total exports to the US - then you have to add in the other 25 EU countries we export to. https://www.uktradei.../Pages/OTS.aspx

What am I reading wrong? - I stated the biggest buyer of our goods was the USA. If you want to start merging countries together to prove we trade more elsewhere then thats fine, we can all do that...I could merge every non EU countries trade together to prove the same point. The exports to Germany & France alone might be close to the USA but the fact is, even though you merged two countries figures together, they are still less than the USA. Yes, you could then add 25 more countries to further prove a point but for every country you add, the point becomes less relevent.

The page you linked to states:

EU Exports for April 2016 were £12.0 billion. This remained unchanged compared with last month

Non-EU Exports for April 2016 were £13.0 billion. This was an increase of £0.1 billion (0.8 per cent)

See the figures can be manipulated in any way you want, and specific facts lifted to prove/disprove points. You can use imports, exports and a mixture of the two to make the figures suit your case.

But, these figures are all irrelevant unless it is believed that this trade will stop if we leave the EU, which we all know will not be the case. It's like using the argument that X amount of jobs depend on trade with the EU. Yes, I'm sure they do...but by saying that you are implying that all these jobs will be lost, which of course isn't true.

My point by adding trade figures was not to try and say we could do without the EU, of course we can't and anyone who thinks we can is grossly misinformed. The point was that our trade is much bigger than the EU and we are as important to them as they are to us.

I haven't checked the below figures (yet) as I just found this page, but it is an interesting list of who in the world we have trade deficits/surplus' with. It seems that most in the defecit table are EU and most in the surplus table are from outside the EU...

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/

Yes the free movement issue isn't a big thing for me, but certainly for many a UKIP supporter it is the main reason to vote Leave.

 

Although we can point to varying models, we are unique in that we are not an outside country organising a deal with the EU, we are part of the EU leaving and wanting to renegotiate. Although there is no place for grudges in business, I would imagine there could be a bit of 'well you left, don't expect any favours from us' and as mentioned we export more to the EU than they export to us - we have to play our cards right (and I do not trust the current government enough to go in with enough balls to do it).

Less said about UKIP supporters the better quite frankly!

Most governments are swayed and listen to businesses and I doubt that many businesses in EU countries would be pleased if their governments made it hard for them to trade with the UK. We are worth too much to them...whether we are worth more to them than they are to us is immaterial really. The fact is we're important to them so why would they put that at risk?

The import/export figures can be manipulated any way you like but again, as I said in my post:

In March 2016 the fact is that £12,006 (£millions) were exported to the EU and £12,909 outside. They are the facts taken from HM Revenue & Customs report...I looked it up myself on the HM Revenue & Customs web site. In fact, the biggest buyer of our goods is the USA...by quite some margin (£956 million for March 2016 in fact).

If you then flip the coin and look at what we buy from the world, in other words, our imports - then you can see that in March 2016 we imported £19,642 (£millions) from outside the EU and £20,165 from inside, with Germany being the country we buy the most goods from. In my non-expert eyes, it seems that we are just as important to EU member countries as they are to us.

Of course, there is even a possibility that a vote out decision would spark serious debate across Europe and lead to a number of nations questioning their membership. This in turn could lead to the monumental reforms that I believe are necessary to make the EU what it should be.

That's just speculation though and shouldn't really sway anyones decision...

Either way, it makes for an interesting few months...because even a close vote to remain (which is likely) could spark some of the questions mentioned above!

It depends really on how the deals, markets etc react and what happens next. If we slip into a recession then it will affect everyone in the country for sure.

Fair point...

I believe that the EU has recently agreed a tariff free trade deal with Vietnam - haven't looked into it in detail but might take a look at how a post EU deal could look. If they can strike one with Vietnam then why not us?

The free movement thing isnt a big issue for me to be honest - I don't think it's a big a problem as people make out it is! Bone idle layabouts that were born and bred here are just a big, if not bigger problem in my opinion! I would guess on the balance of things, most immigrants come to the UK wanting a job and to pay taxes, NI etc. - the lottery of where they took their first breathe is of little concern if they are decent human beings who want to contribute positively to society!

I'm 99% sure I'm not going to vote. Realistically I don't think the result will make much difference (if we leave we'll probably secure similar arrangements to what we currently have), and the campaigns on both sides have been laughable. I have a feeling that we'll be staying in anyway.

Must admit BobbyZ, I have wondered if it will really make any difference to the general working man (or woman) - I also have my doubts!

Firstly, congrats on actually reading my rantings! Quite an achievement in itself!

However, I never once said I believed the EU is less democratic than our current UK government. You are putting words into my mouth.

What I said was that most people who cast a vote in UK elections roughly know how our government works. Maybe not all the small details but a rough idea of how it works. Most even know their MP's name.

However, when it comes to the EU, unless you are an expert (which despite a lot of research I am most certainly not) it is really hard to understand exactly what it is you are voting for. What's more, very few people know who their MEP is, which to me demonstrates in itself a lack of engagement.

As I said in my Facebook post:

I've nothing against Europe, nor Europeans...quite the opposite. Europe is an amazing place steeped in history and built on loads of interesting cultures, developed by peoples from all over the globe.

My issue is directly with the organisation that is the EU, a bureaucratic spiders web of councils, commissions, parliaments, unions, bodies, organisations & agencies - all lead by a myriad of presidents, vice presidents, commissioners, MEPs, leaders, committees, members, lawyers, economists & many many other general bureaucrats!

It is so complicated and bureaucratic that it makes it impossible for the man on the street to effect anything

Sorry, but I don't personally think it is as simple as you are putting it.

As for the Uk government, well that's a separate issue altogether - one we'd likely agree on to be honest. I'm no fan of the Lords, or (most) politicians. It's also true to say the Tories are in with only 34% of the vote - although it was still more than any other party (not that it makes it right)

Hey I'm no raving Brexiteer to be honest - I simply put my thoughts down from genuine research I did from reliable sources and came to my conclusions. I'd like to see some European integration, but do not believe that the European union as we have it is the answer.

I'm also no fan of big government in general so that in itself goes against what I believe in.

Each to their own though - I'm horrified by the ridicule, lies and almost hatred from both sides. It seems to be much more aggressive than anything I've seen before...

SmoggyPaul,

 

Can you explain your reason for thinking the EU is less democratic than our current UK govt?

 

EU -

• European Council - 28 heads of state/governments (one for each country in the EU), all elected by the people of their home nations, most of which use proportional representation.
  
• European parliament - again, all MEPs are elected by constituents. Proportional representation again.
  
• European commission - not elected by the public, but are appointed by European parliament and the council of ministers.
  
• Council of Ministers - Ministers from each member state (elected as MEPs), also (with parliament) scrutinise the European commission.
  

The council sets the priorities to the commission, the commission proposes legislation and budget, parliament negotiates laws with the council of ministers to make EU law and budget. All done by people we have elected.

 

 

UK -

• House of Commons - 650 elected MPs, some of which are being investigated for possible election fraud, and a Tory govt in charge with 34% of the vote.
  
• House of Lords - 800+ UNELECTED people who claim £300 a day, just for showing up, and either make or break our laws.
  

My thoughts on the EU referendum are in the link below...I'm for leaving...just...but not for the usual right wing reasons. Mine is mainly based around the lack of democracy...

https://www.facebook.com/Tee55ider/posts/10154459536169384

Its a long old post mind...well done if you bother to read it! =D

Been watching these very closely, but was gutted yesterday by this announcement:

https://workshoptwelve.com/2016/04/14/a-change-of-plans/#more-1847

Lack of secured funding means these are unlikely to happen now!

Had a feeling you might say that! Yeah, I'm in the orange Z...

Passed a silver one a few times on Cowpen Lane on my way home from work as I live in Cowpen. Think it must be someone who works round there...

That was me in the black 350z, as it happens I was running late for work (near falcon) this morning 🙈 saw you on the roundabout to my left. As for the exhaust it's got a cobra non resonated centre and back box on 😉

Sounded very nice. Looked spotless too =)

I was going to say they were probably stolen

Spotted a white 370 on my way to work this morning on Haverton Hill Road about 6:45am...then at about 8:25 whilst on my way to Falcon Performance for a service, a black 350Z (I think...it was kinda blurry) on the A66 (Cargo Fleet Lane roundabout) heading towards Redcar...I would have waved but think the driver was possibly late for work... Nice tone to the exhaust though...

Anyone here?

Good choice, mate. I also came to Zedville via the mk2 mr2. (I loved my '2 - the driving position is ultra-comfortable, it has the heart of a go-kart and the pop-up lights used to make my heart sing every time I flicked the on-switch.. but I love my Zed more.. it has the looks AND the grunt!) Your car looks awesome btw.

Yeah, going to miss 'Mr. Two' but it was time for a change...it's been a couple of weeks now mind and it's still not up for sale...

I would say welcome and lovely zed but Boro just signed rhodes from my club

Thought we were going to miss out for a minute...thanks for that!

Hi Paul, welcome to the forum. Nice looking Zed í ½í±. Whereabouts in Teesside are you from? If you need any bits contact R35Lee on here, he's at Falcon performance on Skippers lane

I'm in Cowpen Bewley at the back of Billingham so not far away - thanks, I'll keep him in mind

Hi all!

New Z owner here from 'sunny' Teesside, having had Toyota MR2's for many years. Been toying with a change for a while now and it was a toss up between a GT86 and the Z, with the Z winning through in the end =)

04 Nismo fitted with Veilside Titanium exhaust...rather loud!

Not rushing into any major changes just yet but would like some after-market wheels and will carry out some internal soundproofing shortly I think! Also have lost the cover off my headlight washer so need to get that replaced asap. Anyone know the best place to source one? It may need a whole washer unit as I'm not sure if it has just lost the cover or more has broken off.

Couple of photos including one with the Two...which will be being sold soon to give me some garage room!

Paul