Jay Kay

Neil, I think you're right, this thread needs to be kept short. To be honest, I'm surprised firstly that you even found it as that must have taken some searching, and also that you responded. My intention was never to name either you or your business or even have anyone identify the car you have for sale, in all of my comments I only ever referred to you as the dealer (how on earth did you find this?) so that this didn't turn petty and you had no need to defend yourself. I was simply replying to the people who kindly offered me assistance in my decision making process on whether or not to pay extra and go for the HR model or save some cash and opt for an older model. If this thread rages on and on, I suspect at least one of us will say something we regret and that makes us look daft, so let’s not let that happen.

Your second post above highlights that you are a one man band and that taking people for test drives comes at a price. I'm sure we all appreciate that - and frankly no one likes a messer and no doubt you encounter them regularly which must be frustrating, however I don't think you'll get much sympathy in this respect as that is just part and parcel of the industry in which you have decided to trade. You have to appreciate that if you want to sell a car, you often have to work at it, maybe even wash it a couple of times and your prices should accommodate for some form of expense for such things. In my job I spend several thousands of pounds a year just getting into the office, and that's before I even start a days work, it's just part of it, yes it eats into income/profits but that's life - can't have your cake and eat it, you spend money to make money.

With regards to your initial comment in this thread, in the interest of fairness I would like to respond – and hopefully without looking like I am just trying to argue. First of all, I genuinely like your car. It's in great condition and you basically had a guaranteed sale that morning. If you had a folder full of receipts with it, fully documenting its past, a cash deal would have been done there then. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. I've bought cars in the past and regretted it so I mentioned contacting the former keeper ensuring I went into this deal with my eyes open, but for whatever reason you didn’t seem to want to assist me. You mention that you presented me with everything you had – which is everything you should need to show me and from that and effectively that alone I should have been able to determine whether to purchase the car. I’m sorry but that’s just not how it works – you are effectively asking me to buy the car in good faith despite the fact that you know next about its past. Considering we are not talking about a brand new, never been used car, I would be crazy not to at least try to satisfy myself that I had done everything possible to safeguard myself against buying a car that could be problematic or may have a large bill looming. There is far more to good car maintenance than just a service stamp in a book and as the former keeper is quite local, it is only logical that I would make mention that I would feel happier at least trying to have a brief chat with them. If I had attempted to but could not manage to locate them, then at least I had tried and could then feel better about making a decision and moving forward with a purchase or not. Better to try than to be left kicking yourself for not bothering.

There are also a few facts that I cannot overlook. Firstly you imply that you knew ‘what I was up to’ when I attempted to note down the reg number so that I may contact my insurer. Yes, of course I was going to this by taking a photograph of the top half of the V5C document – I don’t carry a note pad and pen around with me, that’s just how things are done in this day and age. I can categorically also say that I when I was about to do this, I said to you before actually doing anything that I would also be interested in noting down the former keepers address and attempt make contact with them, at no point did I ever attempt to be anything but straight with you so I do not appreciate you insinuating otherwise.

You also said in your response that you’ve never had to allow a buyer to speak with a previous keeper, however when I was walking out of your office, you said to me that in past deals when you have given over past keepers information it had never ended well. Again, not wishing to make a big deal of this but let’s both be honest.

I do agree with some of your points, your website does indeed host dozens of photos of the cars and this is very useful and all of us car buyers would thank you for this, however as no doubt we’ve all seen pictures of items taken from flattering angles or perhaps, for instance, with a big dent just out of shot, no buyer would ever rely on photos alone. You also state that we should check out the large amount of exact info you list about the car, but again, the wording is just a sales pitch that I would expect to see about any car for sale and adds can be misleading – sadly the more info you add, the more chance you have of getting it wrong. For instance your car is a 2008 model and twice within your add it states that it has had just 1 previous owner from new. This implies that you must have acquired it from the original purchaser. Unfortunately a few lines later it goes on to state that the last owner had it from February 2010. When I came to see you, you said it had had two recorded owners before you and that you got as part of a deal from another organisation. Does this mean that it has been though 4 sets of hands in reality? I genuinely do not believe you are attempting to mislead customers, it is simply a not very well worded advertisement as you told me about where the car came from when I asked you. It does however reveal a very good argument as to why buyers take adds with a pinch of salt…

My point is that photos and dozens of lines of text do not sell cars and can often lead you into thinking you are buying something that you are not. Therefore I just wanted to go see the car, ensure it drove nicely and then satisfy myself that I was buying the best car that I could with the limited budget that I had. You commented in your initial response on here that you try to give all the info and more that a buyer would need to make a decision. As has been agreed throughout this thread, you have a unique way of doing business but I think it’s clear from what happened between us and the comments from others that maybe this style could be adapted to ensure customers get what they want – which will result in you then getting what you want. If someone asks for a test drive or to be allowed to have a quick chat with a previous owner, then maybe it’s best to try to be a bit more accommodating rather than become so defensive as it just appears that you have something to hide. As 370Ad says above, a test drive sells a Z. A few photos and a description does not, these are just tools to get people through the door.

Twice you mentioned ‘train hard, fight easy’. I don’t want to have to fight to give someone my money, I want them to make it as easy for me to hand it over as possible or I will just walk away – there’s plenty more Zeds in the sea and all that but as you’ve mentioned it, it kind of did feel more like a fight than a nice smooth process.

It was not my intention but I suspect I’ve gone on for far too long now so I’ll call it a day. It is not for me to tell you how to run your business, clearly I have an opinion on - take it as constructive criticism - it but ultimately it’s your business and you are free to run it how you see fit. I would reiterate that it’s a nice car you have for sale, a car I would have been extremely happy to purchase, and quite frankly to still purchase, assuming I decide I am happy with a lack of history – but if that bridge is now considered burned then so be it.

Hi, I'm a noob too. How did you find the fn2? I figured I'd look for one if I couldn't find a nice zed. Would rather the zed though as the thought of virtually no torque doesn't excite me too much

Strange as its got good mileage and the price isn't overly high. Guess there is something pretty obvious when you see it up close.

Looks like my purchase of a local car has fallen through but I've seen a black one at gotomoto ltd for a reasonable price. Is anyone round that way that knows of this dealer or possibly even the car itself?

Many thanks

Jamie

Just to be clear though, he said he got it through a dealer network so he didn't buy it directly off the last owner anyway

That's what I thought, buy I liked the car and really need one asap

I saw it on the v5 and figured I could memorise it but just happened to mention that I would make a note of it. Didn't ask for a phone number. But he soon grabbed the v5 from me so I could no longer see the details. Very strange situation! He said whenever in the past he's provided detail of former keepers it has ended badly. I said it may not this time but if you tell me I categorically cannot contact them then it's a deal breaker anyway (I was fast assuming a cover up by this point) so what's the harm. He said no. I walked off huffing and puffing

Well, it was too good to be true. Just been to the dealer to see the car and attempt to buy it. Car was lovely, really liked it and having done all the usual checks, I asked if we could go for a drive and then do the deal. Just as he did when I viewed a car in the past at the same place, he was reluctant to let me drive and insisted we went through the paperwork first. I wanted to see the history anyway so agreed. Service book was stamped but gave no indication as to whether coolant or brake fluids had ever been changed. I mentioned writing down the reg number so I could speak with insurance co. and name of former keeper as I'd like to contact them to ask what other work had been done, in the absence of any receipts. That's when things went downhill. fast. His tone changed and I was told that I would not be allowed to contact the previous owner. I suggested that as I was looking to do the deal but would feel happier if I could have a 5 min chat with the last owner, and as doing your 'homework' is advised, I was starting to worry that maybe something was being hidden. I was told that there may be a reason why the last owner may bad mouth the car, or they may not, but frankly its irrelevant and 'too much information, that I didn't need' and that I needed to get this idea out of my head. I argued that it is entirely relevant to me and as I am the buyer, and if there is nothing to hide, then he was not helping things. After several minutes of rather frustrating going back and forth I walked out.

I memorised the last owners name and the area he lived (its not too far from me) and I've tracked his full address down now from google. I'm hugely put off the car but a intrigued to see if the car has a hidden past or not so may still attempt to make contact.

The search continues but it had better hurry as I've sold my BMW and doing the nursery drop off by pushbike with a baby seat on the back is no fun

Wow, 8000 miles on a 58 plate! you did (mig)well there! Sorry...

I think the car is priced right, just need to look through the history to see what's been done in the way of clutch, belts, fluid changes etc to see what bills could be lurking.

Thanks everyone. HR it is then! What should I be paying roughly for a 58 plate, GT, black with black leather, 60k miles, no sat nav, 2 former keepers, full history and Milltek cat back exhaust? Car is very clean, wheels just refurbed

Hi, I'm hoping to buy a Zed this weekend and am wondering if its worth paying the extra for the facelift car? The visual impact is minimum other than the bonnet really, however I gather it's a virtually new engine. Performance wise, is there much difference between a 2008 car or the slightly older car? Also, is there any major reason why one may be better than the other?

Any help is appreciated

Jamie

Darren, where are you based, what's the mileage etc? I'm toying with buying a zed