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The Safe Driving Thread *Updated 2016*

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Very interesting read and hits the nail on the head. I have been a delivery driver since 1992 most of which is in London.I think that when people go for their tests they should (1) Take some lessons in London just for the experiance (Black Cabs U turning without any indication, motorbikes & cyclists popping up in your blind spots and good old pedestrians walking out on green lights!!!) and when you then get the hang of driving the car around London go out in a Lorry. Driving Lorries make you use your mirrors so much more.I have had my scrapes over the years.Some my fault, some not.Thing is you are always learning.It doesn't mean your stupid if u are still learning even after years of driving!!!

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Well that opening post was a lot more neutral to what I was expecting and a good read and very good points made stay safe zedders

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Very interesting read and hits the nail on the head. I have been a delivery driver since 1992 most of which is in London.I think that when people go for their tests they should (1) Take some lessons in London just for the experiance (Black Cabs U turning without any indication, motorbikes & cyclists popping up in your blind spots and good old pedestrians walking out on green lights!!!) and when you then get the hang of driving the car around London go out in a Lorry. Driving Lorries make you use your mirrors so much more.I have had my scrapes over the years.Some my fault, some not.Thing is you are always learning.It doesn't mean your stupid if u are still learning even after years of driving!!!

 

And delivery drivers stopping right outside the house they are delivering to without any regard

 

to other drivers, almost got wiped out a few weeks ago by Mr Ocado..!! :scare: :scare:

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I don't think I could add much more to the already good posts and tips, other than being in the right gear at the right time and the right speed, whether driving around town, or cross country.

In all driving, observation and awareness is key to safe motoring no matter the speed.

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Never let it be said that there's nothing more any one can ever learn :)

 

I picked up Advanced & Performance Driving by Reg Local the other week, and have finally worked my way through it. Some will know Reg (not his real name) from PH, and basically this book is a collection of his thoughts and ideas of modern fast road driving put into print. He's ex-advanced police driver instructor, so as good as you can possibly get, but he's also an excellent writer who comes across with a good dose of common sense as well as humour.

 

There was masses of info in there that I'd never even considered, some really silly tips and tricks that not only make you safer, but also faster and smoother. Give you an example: When approaching corners, slow down more than you need to so you can accelerate through them. This makes for a smoother ride for your passengers but also allows the rear suspension to work properly in the corner, actually increasing your grip and speed. Having tried it a few times, it feels odd at first but after a while you just 'get' it and you are noticeably quicker. And then there's "OOoooofff the brakes...", which I'm working on at the moment.

 

What also surprised me was that some of the more advanced techniques he mentions I already do without thinking, which was rather pleasing and I'm sure many of you folks on here will read it and realise some of what you do is also the correct thing already.

 

 

It's a really cheap read on e-book, and not exactly expensive in print either. You could do much worse than give this a read, you really could.

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Never let it be said that there's nothing more any one can ever learn :)

 

I picked up Advanced & Performance Driving by Reg Local the other week, and have finally worked my way through it. Some will know Reg (not his real name) from PH, and basically this book is a collection of his thoughts and ideas of modern fast road driving put into print. He's ex-advanced police driver instructor, so as good as you can possibly get, but he's also an excellent writer who comes across with a good dose of common sense as well as humour.

 

There was masses of info in there that I'd never even considered, some really silly tips and tricks that not only make you safer, but also faster and smoother. Give you an example: When approaching corners, slow down more than you need to so you can accelerate through them. This makes for a smoother ride for your passengers but also allows the rear suspension to work properly in the corner, actually increasing your grip and speed. Having tried it a few times, it feels odd at first but after a while you just 'get' it and you are noticeably quicker. And then there's "OOoooofff the brakes...", which I'm working on at the moment.

 

What also surprised me was that some of the more advanced techniques he mentions I already do without thinking, which was rather pleasing and I'm sure many of you folks on here will read it and realise some of what you do is also the correct thing already.

 

 

It's a really cheap read on e-book, and not exactly expensive in print either. You could do much worse than give this a read, you really could.

We get taught a lot of this stuff on advanced driving courses at work, it's amazing. The instructor I had was ex advanced police driving instructor and the insights are great.

 

I enjoy the "no braking" game, basically you aren't allowed to use the brake which forces you to assess the road ahead and set up your speed accordingly. If you get it wrong it can be a bit of a squeaky bum moment but you take the lesson and apply it next time. You also end up seeing "comfort braking" everywhere, people using the brakes but not actually doing anything with them.

 

Also I enjoyed being free to use the whole road, as he said "you pay for it so use all of it". Why sit on the left if you would get far more visibility on the other side of the road. You're almost taught in normal driving education that going over the dashed line is a bad thing, people give you funny looks if you do, well at least I'll see the horse/cyclist round the corner and not kill them.

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SWMBO hates the fact I use the whole road, she seems to think that if you cross the hazard lines you're suddenly going to explode into a fireball or something.

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Haha yeah that's it exactly. "look it's dashed for a damn reason". The mrs is quite chilled out about it though as we've never (touch wood) been in any bad situations whatsoever despite the local west midland drivers best attempts. When I had the celica on the road she even gave me permission to gun it down my favourite routes :lol: My days of driving questionably are long behind me though, so it's all pretty tame.

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Good thread this, the no braking theme was originally introduced as stated to help focus driver assessment of the road ahead but also using your brakes in a sparing manner means they are less likely to suffer from fade when you might be required to stamp on them.

The introduction of ABS was also a game changer, eradicating not entirely but for the main part cadence techniques.

The golden rule is to not drive faster than the distance you can see to stop safely.

The quote about slow in and progressive out of bends is also a good one. Again it's not just about mechanical grip and comfort it's also about line of site through an apex and minimising conflict risk.

I especially like the post about "what if", this is a superb mentality to have in today's habit forming driving culture. Combining "what if" with a mental commentary about potential hazards helps to create a safety zone around your vehicle regardless of what other road users are doing and more importantly gives you escape options.

 

 

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Clicky for a long but sobering read

 

*EDIT: Sadly 10PS has removed his text from that thread and left PH. I'm sure it can be found elsewhere on the internet, and is well worth looking for.*

 

Ok, so this inspired me to go on a massive internet trawl and see if I can dig up a copy of the original to repost here. It's buried deep in the web somewhere, just got to figure out where, most people have just linked to it. In the mean time I found this, which is also sobering.

 

18-year-old kid killed in a BMW M5

 

 

 

 

 

He posted on the BMW M5 forum —
— as "AmericanM5," the proud new owner of a 2008 BMW M5 painted Space Gray.

 

He had a problem. It happened when he had "everything set to max" and changed gear with the shift paddles mounted on the steering wheel. As he said, "and I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be a thud noise with the gear change." AmericanM5 wanted to know if this was normal.

 

And he added: "Let me say I am a beginner when it comes to high-performance cars as I am only 18, so take it easy on me."

 

Reality Check

The forum members told him that yes, the sensation of an abrupt gear engagement is normal with the M5's automated sequential manual transmission, but several also took the opportunity to express their concerns.

 

Wrote one: "It's just disturbing to know...that an 18-year-old who is asking these questions about a 500-horsepower car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18-year-old being [behind] the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of."

 

AmericanM5 responded: "I completely understand where you are coming from, assuming that I am irresponsible...that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."

 

These posts were dated January 25, 2008.

 

Space Gray

At 3:30 a.m. on January 26, a 2008 BMW M5 painted Space Gray flew off the raised end of a runway at a private airport just outside Ocala, Florida, sailed 200 feet through the air and stuck a huge tree. The impact with the tree occurred 15 feet off the ground. Five young men, aged 18 to 20, were killed instantly.

 

Members of the M5Board began to put the pieces together. AmericanM5 said he was 18, had a 2008 M5 in Space Gray, and said he lived in the Ocala area. And he signed one of the posts, "Josh."

 

The driver of the crashed M5 had been Josh Ammirato.

 

Experience Counts

Apparently AmericanM5 had not been entirely truthful in his postings. The M5 belonged not to him, but instead to his father.

 

When members of the M5board forum had made this suggestion online, AmericanM5 bristled: "It's mine, buddy. I just traded in my 335i and paid the difference."

 

Another member suggested that AmericanM5's lack of knowledge about the BMW M5's transmission could be easily explained: "Maybe your two years' driving experience in your whole life is the problem."

 

AmericanM5 responded: "That could be a good assumption but the fact I never drive a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years, buddy."

 

Reports indicate that Ammirato had received four traffic citations in the last two years.

 

Is This for Real?

The crash occurred at the Greystone Airport, which is bordered on one side by Jumbolair Estates, a fly-in community where actor and pilot John Travolta lives; he filed a suit in 2007 to compel the owners to allow him to land his Boeing 707 on the strip.

 

The fly-in community was built by the late Arthur Jones, inventor of Nautilus exercise equipment. The airstrip is 7,550 feet (1.5 miles) long and is 210 feet wide. Apparently it can be accessed through an unguarded gate.

 

The five occupants of the M5 had attended a basketball game, and then a party where they were celebrating the 19th birthday of Dustin "Smiley" Dawe, one of the men killed.

 

The Florida Highway Patrol reported that there was evidence of skid marks at the end of the runway, indicating the car had turned sideways before crossing a sloped embankment and sailing through the air and into the tree. Alcohol does not appear to have been involved. The accident made headlines in the Ocala Star-Banner.

 

A Final Word

The final exchange between AmericanM5 and the rest of the forum members came late on January 25.

 

Some members wondered if the 18-year-old M5 owner was for real, and suggested that he post some photos of his car. Others wondered why a teenager would opt for an expensive sedan instead of more conventional sports car like a Porsche.

 

A forum member from Queensland, Australia, applauded AmericanM5's decision to get a BMW: "I would much prefer an 18-year-old with brains to have an M5 rather than spend his money on some other piece of junk that could kill him and his mates in an accident," wrote M5DAL, a forum member since 2004. He continued: "If you crash in a big way, expect to be on the news."

 

"Thanks, guys, don't get me wrong," AmericanM5 wrote. "I never said I didn't respect your wisdom. Thanks for the welcome, and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better...and I plan to have all the pics up tomorrow. Josh."

 

That was his last post.

 

Video:

 

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That last link in the thing about the M5 is entitled 'Darwin Wins'. I'm afraid it does sound very much like he got what was coming to him.

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That last link in the thing about the M5 is entitled 'Darwin Wins'. I'm afraid it does sound very much like he got what was coming to him.

 

Agree, that's not really what the Darwin awards are about. The poor kid was on a runway away from the public at least. Tragic that all too often, young, inexperienced drivers, find out the very hard way, why powerful cars (And very high speeds) should not be taken lightly.

 

I grew up in the country and most of my friends has stuck a car into a tree or ditch by the time they were 18. Luckily, no one I knew was ever seriously hurt. I didn't pass my test until I was 28, but I know that if I'd had an M5 at 18, where I lived, I more than likely would have killed myself in it. Not because I'm a bad driver, but I was a lot less mature than I am now and the temptation to go stupidly fast would have been a lot harder to resist... although you could call that bad driving.

 

A lot of the time people feel they are safe because they are in a big metal cage with belts and airbags. It's only when you see (And start to appreciate) the damage a 70mph impact can do and how hard it is to stop 1.5 tons of metal at high speed, that you start being more careful. I don't think a lot of people develop this until into their late 20's... hence why the insurance costs come down at this age.

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Yep, no doubt I made some errors of judgement whilst driving when I was younger. I also agree on keeping it away from others - if I do bin it these days, chances are I'd only kill myself, which is fair enough.

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Definitely food for thought thanks for this! Like the whole everyone's an idiot thing, I was actually taught that when I did my bike license, it made me a better car driver!

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Interesting thread. My driving improved when I started driving artic milk tankers - not sensible to brake hard so you had to do several very good things - look well ahead, assume there was s stationary bus around every blind bend, and play the not braking game.....and yes everyone else was a potential idiot.

 

Just bought a 350z (2003 GT in blade silver) and enjoying driving it very much. Already found though that many other drivers will speed up when you are around!! Is this a common observation?

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I imagine any vehicle with a sporting intention visually can encourage others to misbehave. A very common trait especially on faster A roads and motorways is for the fastest moving vehicle to act as a barrier to others with regards speeding offences. For example if a person is in lane three of a motorway doing 90 you will inevitably find others using that vehicle as a benchmark because it is effectively ploughing the road should there be a police trap ahead.

Most drivers are also naturally territorial and can become very competitive should they feel someone is gaining what is perceived to be an unfair advantage.

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Ok, so this inspired me to go on a massive internet trawl and see if I can dig up a copy of the original to repost here. It's buried deep in the web somewhere, just got to figure out where,

 

 

Stored on the Wayback Machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20071124104330/http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=141&t=442266&i=40

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