Product advice, please

[kenny90]

Hi guys,

 

Ive noticed that there are some really clued up people on here with regards to detailing and some of the work looks absolutely excellent so I'm after some advice please,

 

My Z has been off the road for almost 5 years, as you can imagine it's been pretty neglected in this time and has been gathering dust. (I've explained the situation on my introduction post) it's kuro black, I'd like to do a proper job on it, but my heads fried reading various forums as how best to start. So I thought I'd ask here. I want to properly clean the car, remove as many swirls and scratches as possible and get a great finish on it,

 

I understand people may be sick of answering such question, but if anyone can give me an idea as what steps to take from cleaning the car to the final finish, or recommend some products I would be massively grateful,

 

Thanks

[ATTAK Z]

Welcome to our club ... the experts will be along shortly ... in the meantime, some pictures may well enable an assessment to be made prior to any advice.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ATTAK Z

[kenny90]

19 minutes ago, ATTAK Z said:

Welcome to our club ... the experts will be along shortly ... in the meantime, some pictures may well enable an assessment to be made prior to any advice.

I've just nipped out to take some photos, it was quite hard to capture the swirls and scratches on camera in this lighting and where the car is parked 

[ballistic]

It depends on how much time, effort and money you want to put in and what products and tools you have. Can you let us know. Ideally you want a dual action polisher for the best results when it comes to the polishing stage. 

 

First thing you need to do is prepare the paint for correction (swirl and defect removal) which will require a thorough decontamination and clean:

 

Pre Wash:

1/ Thorough pressure wash rinse. Youre not just getting the car wet. you want to remove as much dirt as possible with the jet wash. 

2/ Optional: Nice if you have it, snow Foam and/or traffic film remover. Allow to dwell for a few minutes, follow product directions

3/ Rinse

 

Basically you are trying to remove as much dirt as possible before making contact with the paint. It will reduce the chances of inflicting any damage during the cleaning.

 

Contact wash:

Wash with a microfibre or wool mitt and car shampoo (look up 2 bucket method if you need). If you have a detailing brush you want to work it into areas such as sill, trims and badges etc.

Rinse off

 

Decontamination

Apply tar remover, especially around arches, bumpers and lower areas, look for trouble spots. Wipe or rinse off (follow product directions). It will be harder to see the tar a black car.

Spray on fallout remover, it will break down any iron fallout that has embedded into your paintwork from brakes and general environmental exposure.

Rinse off

 

Now onto claying, this is there to remove contaminants of all kinds embedded into your paintwork. The decontamination step previously will reduce the chances of you dragging heavy contaminants across your paint.

Think of it like a face scrub. Go slowly with plenty of clay lube. If you drop it get a new piece. Cut a fresh piece every couple panels. Thin slice that you flattened out into a usable shape. It should go yellow and will prob have spots in it. Work the lower parts of the car last. You can also opt for a clay cloth if you want something easier and more forgiving to use.

 

All of this is done to ensure you have the cleanest and best surface you can to start the polishing process to revive the paint, it will enable you to remove the most amount of defects without creating new issues, and will yield the best results. You can skip some  stages such as fallout and tar etc. Its all down to how much you want to put in.  

 

Main thing is a clean car to start the next stage

 

 

Paint correction:

You have choices here, but from what you have said and the pictures you have two main options:

 

1) A two stage process, starting with a compund (heavy cut polish) and finishing with a fine polish (finishing polish)

1) The other option is to use a one step polish, they contain heavy cutting abrasives that break down as you polish the area to fine abrasives to give you a finish in one step. The first option will likely yield the best results but is at least twice the time and effort

 

Polish

Whether you do it by hand or machine, take your time here. Work in small sections (2x2ft), and strait lines when possible, not circular motions. so up and down and then side to side, 4-6 passes. Then check your work. The more swirls and defects you can remove the better the end result. Some areas may need a second pass. 

 

Protection

There are a lot of options here but the idea is that you are trying to 'seal' in the finish you have worked to hard to create above.

 

To sum up

It may well seem a bit daunting but you can split this over a a few days if you're not driving, weather permitting. So wash and decon one day, next day lightly dust the panel you will work on and start on the polishing.

 

Or wash the car and do the decon step. Then next time you wash do the clay step. Then the next time you wash do the polishing.

 

Honestly its well worth the effort in my opinion, you will love the results of the effort you put in. Its very rewarding and makes the car look so good. Theres plenty of Youtube videos and guides on detailing and loads of helpful people here.

 

Im happy to recommend products for each step or anything else you that im able to help with. Heres my recent thread LOCKDOWN DETAILING . Its not overly detailed but it has some info in there.

Edited May 4, 2020 by ballistic

[kenny90]

16 minutes ago, ballistic said:

It depends on how much time, effort and money you want to put in and what products and tools you have. Can you let us know. Ideally you want a dual action polisher for the best results when it comes to the polishing stage. 

 

First thing you need to do is prepare the paint for correction (swirl and defect removal) which will require a thorough decontamination and clean:

 

Pre Wash:

1/ Thorough pressure wash rinse. Youre not just getting the car wet. you want to remove as much dirt as possible with the jet wash. 

2/ Optional: Nice if you have it, snow Foam and/or traffic film remover. Allow to dwell for a few minutes, follow product directions

3/ Rinse

 

Basically you are trying to remove as much dirt as possible before making contact with the paint. It will reduce the chances of inflicting any damage during the cleaning.

 

Contact wash:

Wash with a microfibre or wool mitt and car shampoo (look up 2 bucket method if you need). If you have a detailing brush you want to work it into areas such as sill, trims and badges etc.

Rinse off

 

Decontamination

Apply tar remover, especially around arches, bumpers and lower areas, look for trouble spots. Wipe or rinse off (follow product directions). It will be harder to see the tar a black car.

Spray on fallout remover, it will break down any iron fallout that has embedded into your paintwork from brakes and general environmental exposure.

Rinse off

 

Now onto claying, this is there to remove contaminants of all kinds embedded into your paintwork. The decontamination step previously will reduce the chances of you dragging heavy contaminants across your paint.

Think of it like a face scrub. Go slowly with plenty of clay lube. If you drop it get a new piece. Cut a fresh piece every couple panels. Thin slice that you flattened out into a usable shape. It should go yellow and will prob have spots in it. Work the lower parts of the car last. You can also opt for a clay cloth if you want something easier and more forgiving to use.

 

All of this is done to ensure you have the cleanest and best surface you can to start the polishing process to revive the paint, it will enable you to remove the most amount of defects without creating new issues, and will yield the best results. You can skip some  stages such as fallout and tar etc. Its all down to how much you want to put in.  

 

Main thing is a clean car to start the next stage

 

 

Paint correction:

You have choices here, but from what you have said and the pictures you have two main options:

 

1) A two stage process, starting with a compund (heavy cut polish) and finishing with a fine polish (finishing polish)

1) The other option is to use a one step polish, they contain heavy cutting abrasives that break down as you polish the area to fine abrasives to give you a finish in one step. The first option will likely yield the best results but is at least twice the time and effort

 

Polish

Whether you do it by hand or machine, take your time here. Work in small sections (2x2ft), and strait lines when possible, not circular motions. so up and down and then side to side, 4-6 passes. Then check your work. The more swirls and defects you can remove the better the end result. Some areas may need a second pass. 

 

Protection

There are a lot of options here but the idea is that you are trying to 'seal' in the finish you have worked to hard to create above.

 

To sum up

It may well seem a bit daunting but you can split this over a a few days if you're not driving, weather permitting. So wash and decon one day, next day lightly dust the panel you will work on and start on the polishing.

 

Or wash the car and do the decon step. Then next time you wash do the clay step. Then the next time you wash do the polishing.

 

Honestly its well worth the effort in my opinion, you will love the results of the effort you put in. Its very rewarding and makes the car look so good. Theres plenty of Youtube videos and guides on detailing and loads of helpful people here.

 

Im happy to recommend products for each step or anything else you that im able to help with. Heres my recent thread LOCKDOWN DETAILING . Its not overly detailed but it has some info in there.

Wow, thanks for taking the time to go so in depth, I really appreciate that. I'm prepared to put the work in over a weekend, I've been without the car for so long so I'm looking forward to it in a weird way. I've not got any really decent detailing products, I've always just washed the other car with a shampoo and then whatever wax was available, so I'm prepared to purchase whatever products necessary.  I've looked into getting a dual action polished too 

[ilogikal1]

Without knowing your budget or what you already have, if anything, I'm just going to throw everything at you.

 

Personally, I'd do a pre-wash:

Assuming you have  pressure washer;

Snow Foam lance (there are considerably cheaper versions available, they're all the same so find the cheapest source you trust).

Snow foam - it's important that you get 4-8% solution hitting the panel so you'll need to measure the flow rate through your lance and do some maths. I posted a guide somewhere on how to do that if you can search it out.

Foam on a dry car, leave to dwell for a few minutes and rinse thoroughly with the pressure washer.

OR if you don't have a pressure washer, citrus pre-wash would be better but don't expect miracles without a p/w.

 

Personally I prefer to do the wheels first (with its own dedicated wheel bucket) but others prefer to do them last or as they do the rest of the car. My deep clean process on the wheels is the same as the rest of the car (more details for each follows, but in summary - foam, rinse, wash using these, rinse, de-tar, rinse, fallout remover, rinse, clay, polish, protect). For deep cleans I also prefer to remove the wheels to attack them properly rather than leavingthem on the car.

 

Wash: Car Chem 1900:1 shampoo, 2 buckets and a proper mitt, pad or sponge (yes, I said sponge!).

Rinse.

Degrease/APC - attack all plastic trim with an appropriate brush at this point. When doing the wheels, use this to properly clean your tyres using a more appropriate brush.

Rinse.

Tar remover.

Rinse.

Fallout remover.

Rinse.

Clay - either use shampoo and hot water with a cloth or get a Bilt Hamber clay bar to save of needing a dedicated lubricant.

Rinse.

Dry.

Beer.

Paint cleaner.

Polish - Scholl S20 for heavier cut if needed, Scholl S30+ for single stage or jewelling.

If polishing by machine: Lake Country Hydrotech - tangerine for heavier cut or crimson for single stage or finishing, both 5.5" and 4" pads with an appropriate backing plate (I use Flexipads plates) are recommended for a Z - are my current go-to's but I'm told by a trusted source that Scholl Spider pads are better still, although yet to confirm this for myself.

If polishing by hand: you'd benefit from using appropriate pads still (medium or light cut), but you'll get limited results by hand (and sore arms), so don't expect miracles again but do consider using a filler glaze and a wax to finish (more on this later).

Work in small areas and always check your work with appropriate lighting and a proper panel wipe down/IPA wipe down to remove any remaining oils.

Glass "polish" (this is just a deep cleaner, not a polish by any means).

Glass cleaner.

More beer.

Protect - the optons here almost endless here;

For glass, coatings are worth the effort and difficult to get wrong but can be pricey. Sealants are cheaper, a little easier to apply but don't last as long.

For trim, coatings are worth the effort and difficult to get wrong but can be pricey. Sealants are cheaper, no easier to apply and don't last as long.

For wheels, it's really not worth considering anything other coatings. It's just not.

For metalwork (exhaust) use your wheel coating.

For tyres, this.

For the paintwork - wax is easy to apply but shorter durabilty, acrylic sealants are about as easy to apply and about as durable these days, spray sealants can vary from very easy to apply to a pain in the arse and fall off instantly to last a few months, and then you've got various coating options in a similar vein - typically the more involved it is to apply, the longer it'll last. There are so many options, I've not linked ot anything... yet.

 

As mentioned earlier if you're polishing by hand and/or you've still got swirls/RDS you want to mask, use a filler glaze and a decent paste wax - the oilier the better (within reason) for this.

If your paintwork is immaculate by this point, you've got a garage and you're confident to apply it then a ceramic coating is always a good option and can last a couple of years, but is a higher outlay.

 

If you let us know your budget (which no doubt I've just blown on the above), and preferences I'm sure we can offer some specific products for just about everything.

Also if you want some guidence on some of the stuff I've mentioned that you don't have already, I'm happy to expand on anything.

 

 

And then once you've done the exterior, there's the interior to think about too....

[davey_83]

Most important is correct wash technique, as there's no point spending hours or days correcting paint just to put the damage right back in. A read of the below link is very much time well spent. 

 

Edit - posted at the same time, the above is an EPIC guide 

 

https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27

Edited May 4, 2020 by davey_83

[kenny90]

46 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said:

Without knowing your budget or what you already have, if anything, I'm just going to throw everything at you.

 

Personally, I'd do a pre-wash:

Assuming you have  pressure washer;

Snow Foam lance (there are considerably cheaper versions available, they're all the same so find the cheapest source you trust).

Snow foam - it's important that you get 4-8% solution hitting the panel so you'll need to measure the flow rate through your lance and do some maths. I posted a guide somewhere on how to do that if you can search it out.

Foam on a dry car, leave to dwell for a few minutes and rinse thoroughly with the pressure washer.

OR if you don't have a pressure washer, citrus pre-wash would be better but don't expect miracles without a p/w.

 

Personally I prefer to do the wheels first (with its own dedicated wheel bucket) but others prefer to do them last or as they do the rest of the car. My deep clean process on the wheels is the same as the rest of the car (more details for each follows, but in summary - foam, rinse, wash using these, rinse, de-tar, rinse, fallout remover, rinse, clay, polish, protect). For deep cleans I also prefer to remove the wheels to attack them properly rather than leavingthem on the car.

 

Wash: Car Chem 1900:1 shampoo, 2 buckets and a proper mitt, pad or sponge (yes, I said sponge!).

Rinse.

Degrease/APC - attack all plastic trim with an appropriate brush at this point. When doing the wheels, use this to properly clean your tyres using a more appropriate brush.

Rinse.

Tar remover.

Rinse.

Fallout remover.

Rinse.

Clay - either use shampoo and hot water with a cloth or get a Bilt Hamber clay bar to save of needing a dedicated lubricant.

Rinse.

Dry.

Beer.

Paint cleaner.

Polish - Scholl S20 for heavier cut if needed, Scholl S30+ for single stage or jewelling.

If polishing by machine: Lake Country Hydrotech - tangerine for heavier cut or crimson for single stage or finishing, both 5.5" and 4" pads with an appropriate backing plate (I use Flexipads plates) are recommended for a Z - are my current go-to's but I'm told by a trusted source that Scholl Spider pads are better still, although yet to confirm this for myself.

If polishing by hand: you'd benefit from using appropriate pads still (medium or light cut), but you'll get limited results by hand (and sore arms), so don't expect miracles again but do consider using a filler glaze and a wax to finish (more on this later).

Work in small areas and always check your work with appropriate lighting and a proper panel wipe down/IPA wipe down to remove any remaining oils.

Glass "polish" (this is just a deep cleaner, not a polish by any means).

Glass cleaner.

More beer.

Protect - the optons here almost endless here;

For glass, coatings are worth the effort and difficult to get wrong but can be pricey. Sealants are cheaper, a little easier to apply but don't last as long.

For trim, coatings are worth the effort and difficult to get wrong but can be pricey. Sealants are cheaper, no easier to apply and don't last as long.

For wheels, it's really not worth considering anything other coatings. It's just not.

For metalwork (exhaust) use your wheel coating.

For tyres, this.

For the paintwork - wax is easy to apply but shorter durabilty, acrylic sealants are about as easy to apply and about as durable these days, spray sealants can vary from very easy to apply to a pain in the arse and fall off instantly to last a few months, and then you've got various coating options in a similar vein - typically the more involved it is to apply, the longer it'll last. There are so many options, I've not linked ot anything... yet.

 

As mentioned earlier if you're polishing by hand and/or you've still got swirls/RDS you want to mask, use a filler glaze and a decent paste wax - the oilier the better (within reason) for this.

If your paintwork is immaculate by this point, you've got a garage and you're confident to apply it then a ceramic coating is always a good option and can last a couple of years, but is a higher outlay.

 

If you let us know your budget (which no doubt I've just blown on the above), and preferences I'm sure we can offer some specific products for just about everything.

Also if you want some guidence on some of the stuff I've mentioned that you don't have already, I'm happy to expand on anything.

 

 

And then once you've done the exterior, there's the interior to think about too....

That is awesome, thanks for that. It's great that you've taken the time to reply like that.

Ill probably add a couple more beer breaks in though!

 

I do have a pressure washer but I'm going to start again from scratch with products, so I'd probably be looking to spend a couple of hundred quid up to around 300 if necessary!

[davey_83]

I have this kit and you'll use every bit of this and it's all good stuff

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gtechniq-Essential-Maintenance-Kit-paint/dp/B078N5CTQH

 

Or found locally the below kit from Auto Finesse is very good too from Halfords

 

This ValetPro kit looks very good also

 

https://www.valetpro.global/Additional-Products/Kits-and-Gift-Packs/1277-/Exterior-Car-Care-Kit

 

Once you've used a product and get on with, it makes sense to then buy the larger containers as this is more cost effective over the long-term. Large containers I have are;

ValetPro Bilberry wheel cleaner 5ltrs

ValetPro Citrus Pre wash 5ltrs

Bilt Hamber Autofoam 5ltrs

Autoglym tyre dressing 5ltrs

Turtlewax Big Orange car shampoo 5ltrs

Autosmart TFR 5ltrs

[HEADPHONES]

I use that purple Autofinesse Tripple too.

Here's a 50:50 against my swirled boot

 

It's more a filler than correction but still good stuff.

 

[ilogikal1]

12 hours ago, kenny90 said:

That is awesome, thanks for that. It's great that you've taken the time to reply like that.

Ill probably add a couple more beer breaks in though!

 

I do have a pressure washer but I'm going to start again from scratch with products, so I'd probably be looking to spend a couple of hundred quid up to around 300 if necessary!

The good news is that the beer breaks can fit in at any stage. 

 

It'll probably be best to keep your existing p/w for now if you're looking at buying a lot of stuff already - citrus pre-wash will do as a good alternative for snow foam and lance for the time being. You could look to get a foam lance later on.

A DAS6 polisher will set you back the better part of £100 on it's own (or £150+ for a kit which will combine most of your polishing needs).

To be honest, if you're polishing then you need to focus on the prep, so I'd focus more on the wash & decontamination products for now and just go for a decent cheap (and effective) wax for your LSP, which you can always change later on down the line. Invest in a decent shampoo & wash mitt/pad, fallout remover & clay cloth. Anything else is a bonus but you can work around for the time being and build up over time.

 

Waxes, FK1000P (technically a sealant hybrid) is cheap as chips (even the "sample" will last a fair while) and relatively durable for a wax, or Poorboys Natty's Blue are good options and easy to use, just top it up every 4-6 weeks and you'll be good for a while.