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100% Suspension NOOB


burntorange

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Well here i am opening up in the lions den!

 

I understand how the principals of suspension works but have no idea whats involved in changing over the suspension and what other parts i might require.

 

Heres what im after, i notice that on fast corners the car sometimes feels as though it loses traction a little too early because of how fat she is, Id like a suspension set up that buries the back end to the floor a little better. I like the way the 350z has handling which reminds me of driving a gokart i just want it to grip a little more like one. 

 

Any suggestions on what i would need would be a massive help!

Cheers

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No point in splashing the cash on proposed suspension upgrades until you get rid of the ditch finders.

 

Perhaps you may find that the handling characteristics of the car will become acceptable to you once you have done this without any unnecessary expense.

 

Also driving tuition may be a very good plan.

These guys are good:  http://catdrivertraining.co.uk/

 

If after that and you are still looking for improvement then the items listed below would help.

 

The list is not exhaustive, but it is a starting point after you have addressed the tyre issue. 

 

Reduce the weight of car:

Reduce the unsprung weight.

Fit fully adjustable coilovers:

Fit adjustable geometry arms:

Fit suitable adjustable sway bars:

Fit adjustable drop links:

Replace bushings as required:

Carry out a full 4 wheel geometry check and adjust to suit your needs. 

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Suspension is a bit of a dark art. I've been asking about it for my Impreza over on the Type-RA forums. Slightly geared towards Impreza's but lots of useful info.

http://www.type-ra.com/subaru-forum/threads/suspension-recommendations-99-wrx.28099/

 

Assuming your suspension is currently standard, you could make the rear squat more by fitting a softer rear spring. Problem is I doubt you will find one without going down the route of fitting coilovers and specing bespoke spring rates. Changing this will likely mess up the handling totally, ruin the feel of the car and could induce unwanted or even dangerous handling characteristics.

 

If you are set on changing the suspension then coilovers with damping adjustment and similar to stock spring rates is probably your best bet. You can use that to alter the front/rear balance a bit. Running more damping at the front will give you more rear end grip but induce more understeer.

Some really useful info here: http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

 

At the end of the day, changing your suspension will not make that much difference as its not the suspension that are in contact with the road. Your car can squat its back end all it likes but if the tyres cant grab the road then what good will it do?

 

I know its not what you wanted to hear but Alex is right. Tyres first, then if you are still not happy, consider suspension next.

Edited by longsh07
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If suspension is your concern the first thing i would do is get a decent geometry check, find someone in your area who uses hunter alignment for example as a starting point, get the car back in line which if it hasnt been done recently its probably a mile out, this may help. If you find you are still loosing grip, get a bit of negative camber dialled in. However, the above posts are right, if its just grip thats the issue, tyres should be the starting point, no good having all the suspension done if the one thing that transfers that to the road is on the budget side.

 

If there are certain handling traits you dont like, body roll, turn in etc etc, there are various options for you to explore.

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Your Falken tyres are fine and certainly not ditch finders. :rolleyes:

 

Of course changing them for MPS4S or semi slicks will improve traction, but suspension changes will also help. Read up on adjustable ARB's as they'll reduce body roll and keep the cornering stress more even across the 4 tyres rather than the outside two.

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We don’t even know what tyres they’re are. If 453 then yeah they’re budget but okay, if 912 then they need binning as you’re starting from too low a baseline. 

 

JP is right though, take everything back to stock geo and pinpoint exactly what you don’t like. Ultimately you’re losing traction because you’re putting down too much power for the tyres to cope with, so either remove right foot or add more grip with better rubber.

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Thanks for all the replies i have the 453s, i will deffo go get stock geometry set back up and see if this helps and itll also give me an idea how much it was out!! 

to me it sounds like aftermarket suspension isnt going to do all that much so maybe tyres are what i should be looking at. 

 

Driving it a fair bit since this discussion i have noticed more when i seem to lose grip and its actually when i let off the accelerator around a fast bend to glide around it a little bit before getting back on the gas. 

wonder what is causing this??

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Weight transfer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer

Edit: More info: http://www.drivingfast.net/oversteer/

 

By FAR the best way to correct it is to understand why it happens and how to avoid it :thumbs: 

No tyres or suspension changes are going to get rid of it I'm afraid :lol:

 

Edited by longsh07
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The full story is now beginning to emerge.

 

Still the same suggestions as before, however in a different order:

 

(1)Driving tuition may be a very good plan.  These guys are good:  http://catdrivertraining.co.uk/

(2)Carry out a full 4 wheel geometry check and adjust to suit your needs. 

(3)Replace your budget tyres with a premium brand if you are still having issues.

 

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I never even thought about that it might be lift off over steer, to be honest im also beginning to think its all the salt on the roads that are making the roads extra slippy as ive not had a problem before, i do away with terminology and just drive and react accordingly. however would love to do driving tuition especially drifting

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I was out again in the zed earlier and whatever the problem is with my zed i find it hard to believe that there is nothing else causing this mad lift off oversteer......put it this way i went round a bend earlier at 40mph on a 40 mph road lifted off the throttle a little and the backend stepped out big time to the point i was going into the other lane.....this is either something technically or mechanically wrong with this car or the roads are mega slippy from all the salt.....ive been round this bend lots of times and a hell of a lot faster too....somethings up!!! Is there anything that can cause lift off oversteer more so....maybe tyre pressures or maybe the damping has gone in the suspension???

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Ok another update to this....had the tracking done still getting issues and its getting dangerous....what im feeling when whatever is that happens is a judder normally accompanied with a bit of a fishtail.....now when it happened just it was at dually speeds.....could this be anything related to the brakes??? Or abs system that causing a momentary lock on the wheels to cause the dynamics to go mad as weight gets shifted around??? I refuse to believe this is tyres

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What the hell is a dually speed?! Please don't tell me you mean dual carriageway, as otherwise you could just say 70mph.

 

Sounds to me like you really need some lessons in performance car driving. If the TCS is kicking in like you say it is, then you're driving way beyond the limits of your car.

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Your description sounds like traction/stability control to me, as Ekona has ready mentioned. Sorry but I have to agree, I think it's your driving style at fault rather than the car. 

 

You said you've not had this is other cars, what were the last few cars you owned?

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