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Lurch

Understeer

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Hi Drifters,

 

I was out for a little skid last night (private roads obviously) but it was a bit wet. 

 

I don't know if its a lack of skill, poor front tyres, set up, or just the way things go but I was really struggling with trying to initiate. I don't have a working handbrake so was trying to use the flick and kick. but would consistently understeer at anything over 10 mph... :cry:

 

Do the Z's naturally understeer?

 

I have my alignment at about 0 toe front and rear, I have 225/40 on the front and 235/40 on the rear. all fk453's at the time.....

Any idea's on how to fix it..... I've not been out in the dry to know if it's just the wet...

 

 

TIA

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To me, it sounds like you're not being anywhere near aggressive enough, combined with poor balance transfer. You need to be getting all the weight over the front axle and using much less steering: Right now you've got too much grip over the rear and too much lock on the fronts, so you're just ploughing on. Less speed, lower gear, more gas.

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Thanks for the reply,

 

I don't know if more aggressive with the flick is an issue, but maybe the clutch kick needs a bit more aggression. 

 

it can't be the lock or angle as im not getting that far. it just goes straight as I try to initiate.......

 

Sounds like its something i just need to work through checking everything, need to get a dry day and see if it does the same then........ and if so work through everything.

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I reckon that sounds more like weight transfer than anything now. Not helped by it being wet so the won’t grip either. 

 

@StevoD will probably tell me I’m wrong though, he knows this much better than me.

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What mods are done to the car regarding suspension and diff. what tyre pressure etc 

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pressures are at 30psi fronts 35 rear..

 

lowered 30mm and got as close to alignment as possible,

 

no welded diff or anything...

 

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Might be your diff not locking well enough to push back end around.

 

When was last time it had a fluid change.

 

Assuming it's got an lsd 

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I honestly don't know when it last had the fluid changed! i am intending to get it welded but all the drifting experienced garages around me are wanting £200 for it doing...feels a bit much.. so just trying to find somewhere that does it cheaper.... so i haven't really bothered about the fluid.

 

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Too much lock too early into the skid.

As @Ekona said, too much aggression.

The thing with Z's I've found compared to other cars when skidding is because the wheelbase is pretty square you need faster reaction times counter steering, and you can't begin the counter steer before the drift actually starts, which I always could in My S14 for example.

Being in the wet isn't really that useful in the Z, as it still has a lot of grip on the rear wheels with the stock shocks and ARB.

If you're serious about skidding, I would buy a set of adjustable coil overs and set them up so you get a nice bit of neutral steer, and then dialling in the rear end with a bit more throttle. Each to their own though, of course.

Scandinavian flick works well as well in low grip conditions, but the Z is pretty snappy so can end in tears if you don't react fast enough or get it wrong :wacko:

Good luck and stay safe friend.

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10 hours ago, Beefy said:

Too much lock too early into the skid.

As @Ekona said, too much aggression.

The thing with Z's I've found compared to other cars when skidding is because the wheelbase is pretty square you need faster reaction times counter steering, and you can't begin the counter steer before the drift actually starts, which I always could in My S14 for example.

Being in the wet isn't really that useful in the Z, as it still has a lot of grip on the rear wheels with the stock shocks and ARB.

If you're serious about skidding, I would buy a set of adjustable coil overs and set them up so you get a nice bit of neutral steer, and then dialling in the rear end with a bit more throttle. Each to their own though, of course.

Scandinavian flick works well as well in low grip conditions, but the Z is pretty snappy so can end in tears if you don't react fast enough or get it wrong :wacko:

Good luck and stay safe friend.

I really need to try drifting an S body again after drifting the z for years, in theory it should be easiest thing going :lol:

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1 hour ago, StevoD said:

I really need to try drifting an S body again after drifting the z for years, in theory it should be easiest thing going :lol:

In my experience you forget that not everything has 300 b/ft at 2000 rpm and either stall or fail hard, either way you look a bit of a knob :lol: 

 

OP, will it burnout in a straight line? Can it do donuts? Can it do a figure of 8? If it can do all of the above you probably just arent giving it enough manfoot, if not then it could be another issue. 
Easiest way to reduce rear end grip is to increase tyre pressure so you might want to try that but the usual answer is more speed, more throttle, more commitment :) 

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3 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Manfoot, I'm pinching that! :D

How have you never heard that!!! 

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To be honest it sounds like the diff. When it's not welded and you clutch kick it, it just spins 1 wheel for a second or so before locking they are rubbish! I ended up rolling my last z because the diff decided to open lol. If you want to keep the viscous you need to keep on a constant throttle to keep it locked, if you lift at all it just opens and straightens up the car violently. Best to leave out clutch kick entries until you get a locked diff. Just try weight transfer initiations in the meantime :)

Edited by The Chubby Ninja

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5 hours ago, StevoD said:

I really need to try drifting an S body again after drifting the z for years, in theory it should be easiest thing going :lol:

Honestly, getting in cars with long wheelbases now it feels like I'm driving a ferry across the channel.

My S body had a knackered turbo (And everything else to be honest) so it just didn't have the low down tug that the Z has to initiate though.

Horses for courses I guess.

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Try running some toe out on the front around 10min’s a side this will help with turn in

 

You could try running a stiffer rear bar this will help cancelling out the understeer.

 

 

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Thanks for all the reply's sorry it took a while for me to get back,

 

I think the more I read up on it along with all your replies it's becoming more obvious the Z just isn't ready for proper drifting yet. 

 

I'm going to get the diff welded and see how that changes things - it will need doing at some point so figure ill try that first.

 

again thanks for the help guys

 

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51 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I think the more I read up on it along with all your replies it's becoming more obvious the Z just isn't ready for proper drifting yet. 

I'm going to get the diff welded and see how that changes things - it will need doing at some point so figure ill try that first.

 

Im sorry mate but that isnt whats being said here at all, if anything the driver isnt drift ready yet - a standard 350Z with lock mods is arguably enough to take a win at BDC Pro-Am with a capable driver, you probably dont need to do anything other than learn to pedal.
Far too many drifters fall into the trap of thinking they need 500hp, hydro handbrakes and Wisefab to do anything, when in actual fact most of the guys that you see and marvel at learned their trade in 100hp Volvo/BMW's on cut springs with no handbrake, I had my 130hp MR2 on the lockstops flat in 4th the other day. 

Your diff could be knackered but I think its unlikely, as per my earlier post if the car can donut and FO8 that isnt the problem. If youre struggling to get the rear to break traction add more tyre pressure ......... but to be totally honest the best bet for anyone who wants to be able to drive sideways is to get some tuition, at a normal day (Santa Pod is on today) or at L2D, FlatoutFactory etc., teaching yourself on the street is expensive and often painful. I know this the hard way ;)

Apologies if this sounds condescending but Ive seen ££££'s wasted when in reality all you need is a reasonable RWD car and a bit of practice. 

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50 minutes ago, docwra said:

Im sorry mate but that isnt whats being said here at all, if anything the driver isnt drift ready yet - a standard 350Z with lock mods is arguably enough to take a win at BDC Pro-Am with a capable driver, you probably dont need to do anything other than learn to pedal.
Far too many drifters fall into the trap of thinking they need 500hp, hydro handbrakes and Wisefab to do anything, when in actual fact most of the guys that you see and marvel at learned their trade in 100hp Volvo/BMW's on cut springs with no handbrake, I had my 130hp MR2 on the lockstops flat in 4th the other day. 

Your diff could be knackered but I think its unlikely, as per my earlier post if the car can donut and FO8 that isnt the problem. If youre struggling to get the rear to break traction add more tyre pressure ......... but to be totally honest the best bet for anyone who wants to be able to drive sideways is to get some tuition, at a normal day (Santa Pod is on today) or at L2D, FlatoutFactory etc., teaching yourself on the street is expensive and often painful. I know this the hard way ;)

Apologies if this sounds condescending but Ive seen ££££'s wasted when in reality all you need is a reasonable RWD car and a bit of practice. 

So your saying my car is bdc worthy hmmm....... 

 

 

:lol:

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4 hours ago, docwra said:

Im sorry mate but that isnt whats being said here at all, if anything the driver isnt drift ready yet - a standard 350Z with lock mods is arguably enough to take a win at BDC Pro-Am with a capable driver, you probably dont need to do anything other than learn to pedal.
Far too many drifters fall into the trap of thinking they need 500hp, hydro handbrakes and Wisefab to do anything, when in actual fact most of the guys that you see and marvel at learned their trade in 100hp Volvo/BMW's on cut springs with no handbrake, I had my 130hp MR2 on the lockstops flat in 4th the other day. 


Your diff could be knackered but I think its unlikely, as per my earlier post if the car can donut and FO8 that isnt the problem. If youre struggling to get the rear to break traction add more tyre pressure ......... but to be totally honest the best bet for anyone who wants to be able to drive sideways is to get some tuition, at a normal day (Santa Pod is on today) or at L2D, FlatoutFactory etc., teaching yourself on the street is expensive and often painful. I know this the hard way ;)

Apologies if this sounds condescending but Ive seen ££££'s wasted when in reality all you need is a reasonable RWD car and a bit of practice. 

9

I know what you mean, I definitely need a lot more practice. all I was getting at is that I think I will learn quicker if the car is set up as good as possible. hence trying to find out if there was anything car related that I could do. 

 

I completely agree about not needing the 1000hp to drift, hence learning in a 04-DE-Z that realistically has about 260HP at the most. 

 

I would love to get tuition but the cost of it at driftland is nearly £400 for a half day.  that's quite a lot of money. Guess I'll just need to get @The Chubby Ninja to give me some tips next time we are there.

 

 

 

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£400 is a lot cheaper than randomly changing geos and parts until you get it right, and tbh that's a bargain assuming you get a decent amount of seat time.

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Going up there with C. Ninja is a great idea, he will be able to tell you if its the car or not and also be able to give you some advice, very few people just jump in a car and can magically drift.
And trust me, the worse the car the better you become as a driver, I learnt in a properly knackered old S12 that kept misfiring and had no handbrake, when I finally got into a sorted S13 it was a revelation. 

However, you still havent told us if the car will burnout, donut or FO8 ........... :lol: 

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On 19/04/2018 at 13:49, docwra said:

Going up there with C. Ninja is a great idea, he will be able to tell you if its the car or not and also be able to give you some advice, very few people just jump in a car and can magically drift.
And trust me, the worse the car the better you become as a driver, I learnt in a properly knackered old S12 that kept misfiring and had no handbrake, when I finally got into a sorted S13 it was a revelation. 

However, you still havent told us if the car will burnout, donut or FO8 ........... :lol: 

I thought I’d answered that. Lol. Yeah she does but the transitions are a little sketch. 

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Once you get that diff welded I'll come out with you no problem and try and help you. I have a hatred for drifting with they viscous diffs lol as they are just dangerous if you don't know what your doing with them haha. When's your next drift day? I will come out with you and try and talk you through it and also take you out in my car to try to show you what I'm meaning. I've just had an op though so will be out the game for 6 to 8 weeks unfortunately. 400 seems alot for a half days tuition but if it's kyle your getting to teach you it's probably worth every penny. But as I said it's alot of money and I'd personally be spending it elsewhere, probably on bits I've already broken on the car haha

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