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Best track tyre when cold?


G1en

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I know this is like opening a can of worms but welcome all advice. 

I have just done my first hillclimb day with the zed along with @Kieran O'Quick and got back in one piece... just 

The main problem was the lack of grip from the mpss road tyres. They have been fine on the road and even at the ring when you can warm them up but at a few degrees on a green track with no warming up allowed i was spinning more than i was going straight. 4 out of 7 runs off the track, great for the spectators, not so good for me,

Its quite apparent with everyone running semi-slicks that standard road tyres are no good, so with that in mind and the fact i do very few road miles, i need to get some semi-slicks or list 1b tyres for those that know the regs. 

so the question is..

 

What would people recommend from the following 1b List tyres (or any others although i have checked the below all come in sizes to suit my wheels) and which are best from cold rather than longevity or when upto temp. 

 

Toyo R888R

Nangkang AR-1

Pirelli Trofeo R

Michellin Sport Cup2

Yokohama A052

 

pic below of the two zeds today at Harewood Hillclimb, great day for cutting the grass i said to the organisers. 

 

C9B6E11E-F09C-47C5-9B26-4AEBCBFCB232.jpeg.94e6c2c171bc7db080a939247bcadcc9.jpeg

81CFA3C3-8B74-4840-A3BB-A3D2310DCB61.jpeg.ea3736f4545eb043fde27a8bede9afe5.jpeg

 

 

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Only going on personal recommendations from others on this one, but from guys whose taste tends to be similar to mine, I'd go with the Cup2s. These are the standard tyres on GT3s, and I know more than a few people who run their cars all year round as well as on track, and they cannot believe the difference in cold & wet conditions from the older Cup1s. Not to say you wouldn't still struggle in monsoons, but in terms of temps they've done sub-zero runs in Europe with no real problems at all.

 

Not saying they're going to be flawless, and like any tyre you're going to have to get some heat into them to get them working, but that's where I'd put my money. FWIW I ran R888s on both my 350 and MR2, and the only time I had real issues with grip was in the MR2 when it was -7c outside: First corner I came to I ended up going straight on even at 5mph, so I turned round and went home :lol: In all other conditions, they were always offering superior grip to anything else, MPSS included.

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Cheers Dan, i may have misled you with the title though, What i meant was best tyre when the tyre is cold, not the track/weather although today it was both in the morning. I am thinking more like spring/summer average british cloudy day, whats gonna work best for sprints/hillcimbs when you are not allowed any tyre spinning or warming so the tyre has to perform out of the box so to speak, rather than over multiple laps. No so bothered about whether it lasts a million laps as long as it doesnt kill me in the wet. 

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Right, I'm with you now, sorry.

 

In that case any of the above really will do, by default they'll have more grip than a road tyre in like for like sensible conditions. If budget allows then still Cup2s as they're the very best and if you're competing then why not give yourself the maximum advantage, but if not then I'd go R888R out of those on the list for bang/buck. I know some folks are terrified about using track tyres in dodgy conditions, but I've personally used the older R888s in semi-monsoon conditions and only spun it because I was being a tit :D

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First run on my r888r on a cold track matched my best ever time on MPSS, on a hot summer's day. Problem is they don't come in the softer compound that they used to make so they're not quite what they could be.

 

Polish remoulds are only listed up to 265 wide but they might do larger now? They're one of the few who actually do compounds. R5 or R7 look about right.

 

They do a model on new casings now too.

 

Personally, I enjoyed watching you launch and slither round the first corner.

 

http://extreme-tyres.com/en/tyres/

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/UKExtremePerformanceTyres/

Edited by Kieran O'Quick
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P Zero Trofeo Id imagine, they are available in softest compound and generally the most expensive, I know that as a "warm" track tyre they are generally considered to be the danglies. Ive used Maxx Sport too and they work well, get up to temp quickly. 

 

Back in my drifty days we used to us a good road tyre (like an MPSS) on the front of the car for similar reasons, as the track tyres were only just getting into operating temps when a 30 second run was finished. 

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Firstly hats off to you for having a crack at Hillclimbing! I'd really like to have a go myself but never seem to align my diary with events I fancy.

 

From that list I'd go with the Yoko AO52's, they use a lot of tech from WRC so up for just launching in to a tarmac stage...........or up a hill climb........on cold and or damp roads. 

 

As above, I suspect the Trofeo would be a good performer too but would need heat to really switch on as I believe the Cup2 would too. A friend of mine runs the Cup2's for track days and although no where near as single minded as the Cup(1) tyre he still doesn't have confidence till hes got a few laps on them.....a luxury you wont have!

 

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Thanks @350Butcher this is the thing with tyres like with many other parts, everyone has a different view which is great but not so great at the same time. I spent around 2 hours today looking at reviews/videos online and had made my mind up on the Nankang AR-1

 

From what info I can gather they perform from the get go and can last a full day without any drop off in performance, people were talking about knocking 2 secs off their previous best on lap 1 or 2 on a 2 minute track then another second or so after 4/5 laps and the same times thereafter.

 

When I looked at Michellin Cup 2 and Pirelli Trofeo R, no doubt they are a faster tyre when upto temp but lots of reviews saying they take a few laps to do it and times come down like a second a lap for first 5 laps then consistant after, there was a great video on youtube with a guy comparing cup 2 to pilot 4s road tyres on a damp road and the cup 2's were spinning at every opportunity, he just couldn't get any temperature into them for them to hit their peak window and the trofeo R are advised to use caution in the wet, not saying the AR-1 will be great but they seem a softer compound which will work better from cold. The Trofeo R seems to get the best rating out of any road legal tyre in the dry but it needs a very specific pressure/temp to work otherwise the performance falls off a cliff, read that as unless you have a full pit crew with tyre blankets its nigh on impossible to get the perfect pressure.

 

Not really looked at the A052s apart from the Yoko site that markets them as a street sport tyre, that put me off a little as the AR-1 are marketed as a Trackday specific tyre that is road legal, if that makes sense.

 

I will try and make my mind up soon as I need to bite the bullet and get some sorted, also the AR-1 are £800 set in sizes I need (demontweeks), 265/35/18 and 235/40/18 which seems great value compared to the others which are £1000 + although the price is not a factor in my decision, its always good to save money.

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You're right about It being very personal which tyre works best for you. Getting info is really hard too as you sometimes don't know what tyre they saved 2 seconds over (maybe the other option would've been 3secs too!?) and then some people just say Michelin to any and every question re tyres.

 

Also sometimes it the tyre that gives you most confidence rather than the one that has the higher outright grip so YOU go faster.

 

The AD08 is listed as street sport but the AO52 is most definitely a track tyre, I have tried a few of the usual trackday tyres and always come back to Yoko tyres, they have very stiff construction unlike Michelin which is probably some of the reason I like them and don't get on with some of the other brands. They also take all the abuse you can throw at them in their stride, when you think they must look ruined after that last session they soak it up where others are falling apart, especially as the Z is no lightweight! 

 

Budget obviously plays a big part too, tyre cost is sometimes scary! But think (most of the time) you get what you pay for.

 

Good luck!! and hope you like your final choice!!.................they will be a lot better than your road tyres though that's for sure!!

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I had Ar1's on my VX, very impressive tyre for the money, loads and loads of grip and good feedback through the wheel, keep an eye on the triangle markers on the sides (same as Toyos), adjust your tyre pressures to just scrub the top of the marker for optimum performance/pressures.

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There was a pretty handy driver who ran AR1s on his Integra last year. He went from 67.5s on Ad08s down to 66.2s. 

 

The gains should be massive on the Z. It'll be like going from a wet to a dry track. Just the start alone will be miles better. Much more fun to be had planting it instead of having to tip toe around too.

 

Worth getting a ground sheet now. If you do a big slide over the line and park up you end up with big divots on them when you drive off again..

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  • 1 month later...

I'll have a bit of feedback about the Nankangs after this weekend if you haven't bought anything yet. I'd originally ordered a set of the soft compound VR1 from Extreme (only £118 per corner) but they seem to be booming as a company and can't keep up with demand currently. Tried opting for their Wet compound which is rumoured to be incredible for 1 lap but they sent out the wrong ones.

 

Couldn't wait any longer - my 888s were down to the bars - so have stuck some Ar-1s on today.  Will let you know what to expect.

 

Hoping to get back to launching in under 3 seconds again..

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The AR-1s are already fitted Kieran, Mega grip compared to MPSS, so much so I boiled my clutch fluid last week messing around. Was on the reserve list for this weekend but didn't make it, already booked and on list for next month at Harewood though so will definitely be there!

Just to give you some idea of how quick they warm up, garage put 35psi in, at Japfest Andy James said I need to drop to 29/30 for normal driving and 19/20 for track. so before I set off home I let some air out down to prob around 30psi, didn't have my gauge to measure exactly but when I got home (from just cruising on motorway) the pressure was around 42 all round!

Nankang had a stand at Japfest and I got talking to guy there who said they were very pleased with the performance but don't drive in heavy rain, for comparison their performance street tyre is rated at 320 compound, their existing track tyre (NS-2R) which is decent in wet is 160 compound. The AR-1 is 80 and very soft so should be great for us.

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Flippin' 'eck that's some jump in pressure. Looks like they'll heat up on the chute down to the start so. 

 

Good info there, ta. Will bring a temperature reader to see what's going on too. Planning on running more pressure in the fronts this year judging by the state of last years wear. 

 

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