Ekona Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, gangzoom said: Still the iPace will sell fine, however Jag is wasting their time targeting Tesla owners (lots of people on the Tesla Facebook group have had emails from Jag), but I've not seen/heard of a single Tesla owner switching to Jag because of the iPace. Is that not like Samsung sending iPhone users a bunch of emails about the S9? When you've got your head that far up the corporate behind, ain't nothing gonna shift it (and I say that as an iPhone owner myself!) Edited March 11, 2018 by Ekona 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 hours ago, davey_83 said: eek, I was trying to be nice to Tesla. You can be as nice as you like, but you cant bury your head in the sand forever, well some can and obviously do.....thats not to say Jaguar/Land Rover dont have their faults of course, however, it would be absolutely futile, completely naive and to be fair completely stupid and not worthy of reponse to try and compare the build quality of a Tesla to Jaguar/Land Rover, although i am sure its coming in the next few threads..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) That's just it, you have to compare the build quality of an X to an iPace, as they sit in the same market of vehicle. From what I gather even the entry level X for the ££ compared to a Audi, BMW, Merc, Jag etc (well any top car manufacture) is well below par sadly. Edited March 12, 2018 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) The public has spoken Which would you rather have? Edited March 14, 2018 by davey_83 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 6 hours ago, davey_83 said: The public has spoken Which would you rather have? Personally I think the iPace is great, but I honestly dont understand the comparison to the X. We switched our order from a Model S to a X becuase of the extra space/seating in the back. Its like comparing the SQ5 to a SQ7, or an Velar to the Discovery/RR. Jaguar have sold their entire production run for 12 months already, and the X sales are still going up with hardly any used inventory because owners just arent selling up. Any EV SUV makes infinitely more sense than the current bhp war forming around the combustion powered versions. A 550bhp 2ton+ Velar, am sure its quick but I suspect from £100 worth of V power it woudlnt get much further down the road than an iPace or Model X on £5 worth of electricty:). https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/542bhp-range-rover-velar-svr-be-quickest-range-rover-yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 You've missed the point of the super car engine'd Velar, it's a toy. Anyone who will buy it will also have half a dozen other cars and no doubt one more suited to hours of motorway miles. Plus, any owner of a 550bhp SUV cares not for mpg Also not all X are sold/spec'd with 7 seats, so those individuals clearly don't need a mini bus and in will step the sleek iPace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, davey_83 said: You've missed the point of the super car engine'd Velar, it's a toy. Anyone who will buy it will also have half a dozen other cars and no doubt one more suited to hours of motorway miles. Plus, any owner of a 550bhp SUV cares not for mpg A Ferrari/Lamb/Masserati seems to be the most popular 'second' car on the Tesla owerns FaceBook group. Most people who can afford an iPace or Tesla can afford the running costs of any car. Which comes back to the whole point of why I went down the EV route....EVs are simply better cars to drive/own. Your struggle to find any EV owners who wishes to go back to a combustion car. Its now over 3 years since I switched to EVs, the thought of wasting my hard earned cash on a combustion car is just maddness. I cannot wait for the new XJ to be unviled as am 99% sure itll be my next car once the need for nursry runs stop in a few years time, though pending what car my wife ends up with the Mission E might tempt me - If can convince my wife to take the Tesla that might work :). But the only EVs that arent compromised by range at the moment are still too expensive for most, a decent spec iPace is £75k and you get £0 discount. But things are changing, the Kona will be on sales for sub £30k, and will have a real world range the same as a Tesla/iPace. Does that mean no one will buy a Tesla/iPace? Ofcourse not, the petrol version of the Kona is much cheaper than even a Quasqhai but Nissan still sells plenty of those things. Its all about choice the more EVs that appear people can actually buy the quicker combustion cars will die. We seen how quickly diesel sales have fallen off a cliff, hopefully the same thing will happen to all combustion cars once enough EVs hit the market. https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/27/17058362/hyundai-kona-ev-suv-range-specs-photos Edited March 15, 2018 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Back to the point, more people would rather have the iPace over the cheap feeling X so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, gangzoom said: Any EV SUV makes infinitely more sense than the current bhp war forming around the combustion powered versions. A 550bhp 2ton+ Velar, am sure its quick but I suspect from £100 worth of V power it woudlnt get much further down the road than an iPace or Model X on £5 worth of electricty:). 3 hours ago, gangzoom said: A Ferrari/Lamb/Masserati seems to be the most popular 'second' car on the Tesla owerns FaceBook group. Most people who can afford an iPace or Tesla can afford the running costs of any car. Mentions owners can afford to run any car, however worried about how far down the road £100 juice gets you? Not being horrible but I find conversation difficult. I state a Velar SVR is a toy, you cant agree and go off on your considerations for a posh new car........ As one forum member to another, I find you a show off and represent a lack of relative contribution for the Nissan 350z forum. Id rather be honest GZ as to me it doesn't matter whether your car is worth £5000 or £500,000. I have recently from invite drove on the property of a petrol head worth over £250M, my zed dash cam footage is beyond amazing. I respect your choice in vehicle, please respect others that waste money on ICE cars. Edited March 15, 2018 by davey_83 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, davey_83 said: As one forum member to another, I find you a show off and represent a lack of relative contribution for the Nissan 350z forum. Id rather be honest GZ as to me it doesn't matter whether your car is worth £5000 or £500,000. I have recently from invite drove on the property of a petrol head worth over £250M, my zed dash cam footage is beyond amazing. I respect your choice in vehicle, please respect others that waste money on ICE cars. I apologies if you think am trying to show off, as the last thing I care about is what people think of me or the cars I choose. I've always spent far too much money on cars as any sensible person should, which am sure most people on this forum has also done. What irritates to me is comments like 'all EV/hybrids = rubbish' without any thinking or realisation the benefits of the EV drivetrain. Ultimately if you only care about noise and not speed than EVs will not make sense, just like how people ride horses now am sure people will still have combustion cars for fun. But for actual personal transportation I simply cannot see how the combustion engine has a future. Clearly feeling run high on this topic, but EVs are not going to go away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, gangzoom said: What irritates to me is comments like 'all EV/hybrids = rubbish' without any thinking or realisation the benefits of the EV drivetrain. Ultimately if you only care about noise and not speed than EVs will not make sense, just like how people ride horses now am sure people will still have combustion cars for fun. But for actual personal transportation I simply cannot see how the combustion engine has a future. This is the problem, you dont actually seem to take on board what people are saying and just continue ploughing down the "EV (in fact Tesla) is the only way" route, the exact inverse of your first sentence above. On the page alone people mention the purchase price (not being funny but if we could all afford £75K cars we wouldnt be driving 350's), the range (I still do 250+ miles in a day regularly) and probably the underlying fear, the constant advances in tech and build quality that means your car is old tech as soon as you drive it off the forecourt. There are also questions over what happens when your batteries start to degrade, what the actual resale price of these things is going to be and of course, the elephant in the room, how clean the energy generation actually is. Youre also looking at the wrong comparisons, a 500hp Velar is not an alternative to a Tesla as its just ridiculous, but a lower spec Velar for £300 a month? Its a lot less than a Tesla is anyway. And if you cant see why people are comparing an electric, £75K iPace with an electric, 75K Tesla then you need professional help, seriously - the size of the rear seats is not a cars defining feature funnily enough. You might think ICE cars are a waste of money, but for someone that drove £1000 cars for a good portion of his life brand new £75K cars that depreciate heavily are a far, far bigger waste of money. Edited March 15, 2018 by docwra 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 hours ago, gangzoom said: 1) the last thing I care about is what people think of me or the cars I choose 2) What irritates to me is comments like 'all EV/hybrids = rubbish' without any thinking or realisation the benefits of the EV drivetrain. 3) Ultimately if you only care about noise and not speed than EVs will not make sense, 1) So why keep posting about them on a 350z ICE car forum? 2) So why keep posting about them on a 350z ICE car forum? 3) So why keep posting about them on a 350z ICE car forum? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 When we all drive EVs will or income tax have to increase? Because I like the idea of non drivers paying more income tax because of a lack of fuel generated revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Nope, they’ll just tax EVs harder based on their weight, because heavy ol’ batteries cause the vehicles to dig into the road surface harder. Or more likely they’ll just charge more based on power, because more electricity needs to be produced from fossil fuels. Or nuclear, so there’s waste costs to pay for. Or from renewables which cost a bomb and need paying for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 https://www.ft.com/content/0dc01356-58b9-11e7-9bc8-8055f264aa8b 170bn would be ok if the revenue generated ONLY went back into ICE, but let's face it, it covers everything from the emergency services to education and the nhs. Right now you can save tax by driving an EV, but soon they'll tax you on it, they'll have no choice. It's already happening in some US states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ekona said: Or from renewables which cost a bomb and need paying for. True, another misconception banded around on here when it comes to energy supply. A project i am on at the moment was looking at a 4kw pv panels, £2000 return over 25 years (not factoring in maintenance) when you dig down into it and by then he has probably moved or they have failed, needless to say he hasnt gone for for pv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350_Jer Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 This popped up on my Facebook feed earlier https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-tesla-model-3-burned-a-set-of-brake-pads-in-just-9-track-miles/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Keep posting GZ. I like EV's and I agree they will be the future. I'd happily have one now. The constant bashing and digs at your posts on here by others is ridiculous. If you dont like GZ or EV's, read another thread instead of trolling this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, 350_Jer said: This popped up on my Facebook feed earlier https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-tesla-model-3-burned-a-set-of-brake-pads-in-just-9-track-miles/ Man... i'd love to drive Laguna Seca... Might have to put that on my bucket list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Play nice in here. I’m not going to pretend I’m about to lock this thread, because if we can’t have at least one thread in the whole forum for EV chat (in the “Other cars”) then it’s a pathetic state of affairs. The clues are in the forum sub name and the thread titles. If you can’t handle hearing either pro or anti EV chat this probably isn’t the place for you. Trolling isn’t tolerated and neither is losing your rag with Trolls. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattross1313 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 10 hours ago, marzman said: Man... i'd love to drive Laguna Seca... Might have to put that on my bucket list. I'm going there in June, first stop on our honeymoon road trip. Sadly not able to drive the circuit as there is a track day already organised, but I'm hoping to play the honeymoon card and see about a passenger lap! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What we really need is more EVs focused on range, rather than power. EVs make perfect sense as commuting vehicles, so why not play to their strengths? Build a car with 0-60 of 7secs and a range of 500 miles, not one of 3.5secs and 250. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I completely agree with Dan on this. I can see the benefits of appealing to car fanatics as a marketing ploy, but bonkers mode has little real world use... same as launch control on a Merc or Audi I guess. If i could get the same range per charge as my diesel Astra (about 600 miles), or a full day of driving from garage to garage without charge access or time, I'd push for one as a company car. I can see a place for EVs and GZ is right that they're improving. I am still genuinely intrigued about the tax thing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Tax is all swings and roundabouts - the government doesn't have enough money to run the country right now let alone see tax revenues drop on the motoring masses. Remember when you had to pay to draw money out of cash machines? A big push to get banks to remove that cost? Which actually then happened, and within months oh look so many bank accounts suddenly had a monthly charge against them. EV's aren't being taxed right now as the government wants people driving them - once it has everyone in one, taxes will follow as much as day follow night. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ekona said: What we really need is more EVs focused on range, rather than power. EVs make perfect sense as commuting vehicles, so why not play to their strengths? Build a car with 0-60 of 7secs and a range of 500 miles, not one of 3.5secs and 250. The efficency of an electric motor hardly varies between 1rpm or 10krpm. Hence there is no real advantage limting power output at the motor. A 200KW motor also weighs hardly any more than a 80KW motor. The other main factor behind motor power is the voltage supplied to the motor by the battery pack. The larger the pack the higher the potential performance. Clearly you can limit power by artificially capping voltage drae but some ones right foot will do as good job at that as any throttle mapping. 500 mile range EV are still at least 5 years away, your looking at 200kWh+ packs for that kind of range. At somepoint you also have to balance the need for a large packs the reduced efficency due to weight. If 95% of your trips are sub 50 miles than your carrying around and paying for an extra 150kWh of battery storage for no reason expect for the occasional trip. Edited March 16, 2018 by gangzoom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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